Relocate to Monaco, how money required?

[peter taradash]

Thanks for your very nice compliments, Mario I T, marioIT I think maybe a year ago, offshorecorptalk.com had posted the topic "Who is Peter Taradash"
The stuff recently posted is off the topic of getting a residence in Monaco. Maybe our esteemed host / admin John Locke will be good enough to transfer it or create a different subject for the personal stuff about me --

My history is related to the offshorecorptalk.com/ message: Why? I went "offshore" before that word was coined. My concept; Leaving your home country for greener pastures abroad and getting a 2nd passport was quite foreign --especially to Americans who who were (in the old days) very comfy at "home" in the 1960s . That was when I relocated to Europe and became an honorary diplomat & dual citizen for the 1st time. My first pamphlet was on how to get a 2nd passport. In those days you could buy in pre-EU days for around $20,000 or get a very good, 1st class PP in Belgium or even Switzerland for free with a short residence or "marriage blanche." Times have changed, but the old PT concepts remain valid.

 

[jafo]

I wanted to post this yesterday... i know it's off-topic but hey... if I don't post it now it could be too late and would be to sad to just forget about it.

Hats off to Grandpa @peter taradash , the real original gangster.

I don't know you, sadly, but this world is small, and these days it's all interconnected... one day a friend of friends told me your story.
Included the early one...
Your battles/fights, or should I say personal revolts, when you were much younger...
Doing offshore when there was no internet, heck not even smartphones. Must've been such a different world.
I am much younger than you, so I had no chance to access your knowledge at the time.
But I recently I skimmed through your early works and can confirm you were sharing very well guarded knowledge, that is still useful these days, well aligned to what I had to learn on my own.
People believe old books are old and won't apply anymore... the truth is that the gist is always the same in this world.
Today that knowledge about business and life in general is within everyone's reach. Even for free.
Sadly, or luckily for me, only a few really follow the path and do the work. Many daydream. Other are lazy to do that first step. And the ones lost in 9-5 jobs living miserable lives and complaining daily about everything.

Not going to reveal a single thing about you further than this thread, as it's none of my business, but I am happy, after all they told me about your life... that you are so calm and enjoying life in decent places with family.
Your heirs better realize what kind of man they have at their disposal.
If I had a man like that in my family with all that knowledge, when I was a teenager... I could've easily done 20x, even 100x of what I did, and without all the troubles I had to wrestle... and with no sweat.
Even from scratch.
But when you have to start from scratch, in a bad environment, that you don't want to leave it's harder...

but in the end, as you know, the world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going.

By looking at your videos, you seem fine. I would've said you were in the early 70s
So it's really true that taxation is theft... it steals your well being.
Nice to see it hasn't happened to you!

Game recognizes Game!

#Respect to you and @peter taradash

You both dropped this:

 

[marioIT]

@JohnLocke sorry for the off topic, please move the messages from #57 onwards about Pete Taradash/Grandpa to this thread:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...pugi-is-and-what-happened-to-him.38972/page-3
Please do not delete them. Thank you.

 

[diro]

If you just want to rent an apartment and stay there in Monaco as a perpetual tourist (not a legal resident), there is no financial requirements to live in Monaco

No I would like to obtain tax residency there to avoid paying taxes. But I may not qualify for it because of huge payment to them.

 

[peter taradash]

Getting off taxpayer registries: One of my early discoveries was that you don't have to be a legal resident of a tax haven to get off the taxpayer lists of most countries. In the USA, just having a USA passport means you are always liable for income taxes on your worldwide income no matter where you live. So before going to the bother of becoming a legal resident, look closely at the law of the country you are moving away from.

But for every other country on the planet, (aside from a few crazy ones like North Korea) you just have to be NOT THERE physically for a full fiscal year. Needless to say you won't be tax free if you have any income (like rents) from many jurisdictions unless you are OK with a tax to be deducted at source.

For instance --if you own stock in a USA company but physically live & bank ANYWHERE outside that (USA) jurisdiction, for a full fiscal year, your dividends will be sent to your foreign bank, but with around 30% tax deducted. Got that?

 

[uranium]

Getting off taxpayer registries: One of my early discoveries was that you don't have to be a legal resident of a tax haven to get off the taxpayer lists of most countries. In the USA, just having a USA passport means you are always liable for income taxes on your worldwide income no matter where you live. So before going to the bother of becoming a legal resident, look closely at the law of the country you are moving away from.

But for every other country on the planet, (aside from a few crazy ones like North Korea) you just have to be NOT THERE physically for a full fiscal year. Needless to say you won't be tax free if you have any income (like rents) from many jurisdictions unless you are OK with a tax to be deducted at source.

For instance --if you own stock in a USA company but physically live & bank ANYWHERE outside that (USA) jurisdiction, for a full fiscal year, your dividends will be sent to your foreign bank, but with around 30% tax deducted. Got that?

Agreed 100%
But only dividend will be taxed
Capital appreciation is tax free

 

[peter taradash]

Agreed 100%
But only dividend will be taxed
Capital appreciation is tax free

I think for USA taxpayers who live abroad, capital gains incomes are still "theoretically" subject to being reported and taxed. Of course, the reality is that if a USA (or any) expat lives in Brazil (or anywhere) and buys a diamond ring for $1000 and sells it privately for $2000-, well, who is to know about the unreported capital gain (unless an ex-wife or girlfriend haha) reports it.

Don't laugh too loudly as in my career as a consultant, I have seen many instances where a spurned woman or jealous ex-business partner reports someone for tax evasion to get even for some real or imaginary wrong. In countries where tax evasion is a criminal offense, this kind of thing can have disastrous consequences. I know of one (rare) case where the "offender" was kidnapped in a foreign country and dropped on a highway in Florida where he was picked up and tried for his crime. Of course, a big amount of money was involved.

 

[uranium]

I think for USA taxpayers who live abroad, capital gains incomes are still "theoretically" subject to being reported and taxed. Of course, the reality is that if a USA (or any) expat lives in Brazil (or anywhere) and buys a diamond ring for $1000 and sells it privately for $2000-, well, who is to know about the unreported capital gain (unless an ex-wife or girlfriend haha) reports it.

Don't laugh too loudly as in my career as a consultant, I have seen many instances where a spurned woman or jealous ex-business partner reports someone for tax evasion to get even for some real or imaginary wrong. In countries where tax evasion is a criminal offense, this kind of thing can have disastrous consequences. I know of one (rare) case where the "offender" was kidnapped in a foreign country and dropped on a highway in Florida where he was picked up and tried for his crime. Of course, a big amount of money was involved.

I'm talking about a European who has USA stocks is liable only for 30% dividend tax. Appreciation is tax free.

 

[peter taradash]

I'm talking about a European who has USA stocks is liable only for 30% dividend tax. Appreciation is tax free.

Yes. That is correct. A foreigner (non USA person) can speculate in USA stocks. If he/she makes a profit on resales, he/she is not liable for any USA capital gains taxes. But of course, may be liable for cap gain taxes in their own country of residence if such taxes exist there.

 

[uranium]

Yes. That is correct. A foreigner (non USA person) can speculate in USA stocks. If he/she makes a profit on resales, he/she is not liable for any USA capital gains taxes. But of course, may be liable for cap gain taxes in their own country of residence if such taxes exist there.

The best setup is uae residency for tax free + ibkr.

 

[jafo]

The best setup is uae residency for tax free + ibkr.

What about the 9%?

 

[uranium]

What about the 9%?

Only for corporate
We are talking about individual investor here

 

[Frankie]

and even though I could afford Monaco, I preferred to spend my time (and money) in places like Manila and Buenos Aires where I got the same thing (rent, food, servants, etc.) at around 1/8th the price

Same theme repeats again and again with everybody I know who lived/lives in Monaco - "Even though I can afford it" I try to spend as much time outside of MC as I can.

It seems that the key to living in Monaco is not being in Monaco.

 

[peter taradash]

Same theme repeats again and again with everybody I know who lived/lives in Monaco - "Even though I can afford it" I try to spend as much time outside of MC as I can.

It seems that the key to living in Monaco is not being in Monaco.

You got that right, The Monaco cops actually do keep track of whether "residents" really are physical residents for the required minimum 6 months a year. Electric, water, and internet usage is monitored. They can tell if a place has been vacant for months at a time. One (not really a ) secret is for Monaco tax residents to have "vacation homes" in nearby rural France or Italy and to sleep (or pay someone else to use it) at least a couple nights a week (their Monaco apartment). For someone who likes Monaco, this free use of a multi-million Euro MC apartment could be a sweet deal. The only catch is that an unfriendly concierge may spill the beans! Monaco has been known to revoke the residence permits of people who spend too much time away from the Principality. PT Pete

 

[jafo]

Same theme repeats again and again with everybody I know who lived/lives in Monaco - "Even though I can afford it" I try to spend as much time outside of MC as I can.

It seems that the key to living in Monaco is not being in Monaco.

In psychology, this is called an echo chamber—confirmation bias of sorts. Most of the "tax" residents in Monaco barely leave! They are NOT here airing out their grievances about Monaco. We don't hear from them.

In logic, it's called: Hasty Generalization and False Consensus Effect.

Personal example: When I lived in the US, at one time, I lived in one of the BIGGEST states, CA. If we go about my time spent in CA compared to the time I spent outside Cali, it's <20% in Cali vs >80% outside Cali. ***BUT*** since Cali has the HIGHEST taxes, nobody offered me an 80% discount.

You got that right, The Monaco cops actually do keep track of whether "residents" really are physical residents for the required minimum 6 months a year. Electric, water, and internet usage is monitored. They can tell if a place has been vacant for months at a time.

Monaco has been known to revoke the residence permits of people who spend too much time away from the Principality

I think this depends, maybe, on whether they are renting and where they came from.

There is a young man in his late 20s who owns a penthouse in my neighborhood. He bought it a few years back. It's his ONLY home.
I never asked him (I don't ask people personal questions), but from what I've gathered (he likes to confabulate), he does NOT have "La Carte de séjour."

Nobody bothers him, but why would they? He owns the home! It's his only home. What are they going to do? There is NOTHING to revoke!

I was in this same predicament a long time ago. I didn't care about the carte de séjour. Who is going to claim me? A former colony that got its independence AFTER I left +40 years ago?

The home in Monaco is mine! 100% mine! In my name! Even if they revoke my carte de séjour, nothing really happens. I'm still going to be living in my home. There is NO other country that will be able to claim me, so I guess...it all depends...

If Billy Bahamas (born in the Bahamas to European parents and has EU passports) moved to Monaco, bought his apartment, got his carte de séjour, and spent most of his time in the Bahamas, it would make NO difference to him if they revoked his residency or not.

***NOW*** If Benny Belgian moved to Monaco, rented his apartment, got his carte de séjour, and spent most of his time in Brussels, yeah, that guy is super f*cked!

 

[saintjohnny]

I moved to Monaco. It's OK. Just that. Not too many consumer choices. No Uber. No Deliveroo. Amazon Prime works (.fr) though. But it's a bit meh (like everything French).

Anyways...

You don't need that much money to live in Monaco and get the residence card, provided you're a civilized and educated person. The legal requirement of €500k will work provided you have the right connections, and again, you're a civilized educated person with social skills.

As per cost of living, you can get by with less than 10k / month... Which should be peanuts if you're considering moving to Monaco anyway.

Regarding the banks.... If you show up with 1 million shekels and are coming from Dubai (for example – you can insert any other shady jurisdiction) – I don't think the banks will want business with you. However, make that 100 million... and who knows?

The most important lesson Monaco gave me is that one is better off paying whatever taxes one has to pay to live wherever one wants to ACTUALLY live in.

That's why moving to Cyprus, Malta, Dubai, etc... is pathetic in my eyes.

There's only one life... might as well enjoy it.

Is taxation immoral? Yes. But I don't care anymore... and I'm leaving next year.

 

[Marzio]

I'm leaving next year.

Are you leaving Monaco next year?

Curious to know where you are headed to (if you already know it).

 

[jafo]

Are you leaving Monaco next year?

Curious to know where you are headed to (if you already know it).

Some of us are older, and we had A LOT of wild adventures BEFORE there was even an EU, so we can't hold it against those who don't like boring Monaco. Also, (I think) he is more of a family person. Assuming his family is a real good family, he should do what makes him happy and be around his family!

I'm a misanthrope, so I prefer animals rather than people. I avoid people at ALL costs! Monaco is 100% for me! It's made for me.

I don't like (friendly) people!

PS. I'll leave it up to him to disclose his origins...if he feels like it. I have NO right to speak for him! We'll miss you @saintjohnny. Leave on good terms. Maybe later, you would want to move back! Who knows... Life and the world are akin to a boomerang.

PSS. I think the Dutch call this phenomenon: HEIMWEE (Heimwee - Wikipedia)

 

[EliasIT]

I'm a misanthrope, so I prefer animals rather than people. I avoid people at ALL costs! Monaco is 100% for me! It's made for me.

Now a question comes to mind. Do you have a pet as a partner? Sounds like something we shouldn't dig into any further!

 

[marioIT]

PSS. I think the Dutch call this phenomenon: HEIMWEE (Heimwee - Wikipedia)

yeah I agree. If you have ties to your home country and it's not a complete shithole... after a while you feel like a foreigner anywhere else and think that going back "home" will be the most natural thing to do.
The issue is that when you return to your home country, after many years abroad, you'll feel like a weirdo at home too and will move back to the last good one abroad
I know many people that returned to their home country, lured by favorable short-term repatriation tax regimes, just to move abroad again after a year or so lol

Anyway good luck with it. Happiness is everything in life.
Taxes are not that important after a certain amount. Usually you can always optimize to keep them at decent level, almost in every country.
The biggest issue I find aren't taxes... but bureaucracy, easy of doing business, weird commies and idiotic laws preventing freedom...