Many billionaires have tried to get an UAE passport and failed. Ive said it before, what leverage does the UAE have over Durov?
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Pavel Durov Arrested France
- Thread starter wellington
- Start date
It could be because he moved telegram headquaters to dubai therefore boosting the economy and giving employment opportunities to uae population. not many billionaires would run real business in uae, they rather live off capital gains abroad i think
Mr Durov got French and UAE citizenship by discretionary decision after he left Russia. Than may imply vital national interests, most probably related to COMINT capabilities, beside tax revenue. He tried to out-maneuver the game itself, not the players and he can now only accept the damage without any preference or choice.
Again if you dont use E2EE dont be shocked when the country you have citizenship to will try and ruin your reputation for not sending them data they are (at least to their own stupid laws) legally entitled to. Or am I missing something?
Even if he use E2EE, france will ask him to share the key with them.
I think the whole idea of encrypted app is stupid in the real word. You can't have unmonitored communication tool that could be used by wrong people and also good people. It is just like weapons you cannot leave it at disposal of wrong people. This whole concept of privacy and encryption is just an illusion in 2024 and with time the government will keep controlling people further with digital id digital passport digital currency.
Before establishing telegram, Durov should have thought about the legal aspects: to run an encrypted app and be legal at same time which is impossible. Or share data with the government and state that the app is not encrypted.
Until now we have no proof of whether he shared data with some government but he could have done it for russian government but we still can't prove it.
Anyways now this encrypted telegram idea is over, he has 2 choices: share data with government and be a free man or play hero and spend 20 years in jail. In both cases the government wins and they will have control over telegram. Forget this idea of encrypted messaging app unless you build your own router, your own phone, your own app and then maybe you can have a chance. Anyways keep using telegram just like any other app like WhatsApp or wechat and do not share sensitive data like your financial information.
You don't need to share your financial information. They're already available collated from various foreign and domestic sources - FATCA, CRS and DTT among other international agreements. The final solution - in perverse meaning it resembles a holocaust - is that people lose liberty, anonimity, confidentiality and privacy thru persistent identity (permanent biometric and social identification) and transparency (declaring above treshold financial and property information) and accepting digital payments from custodial fiat and crypto wallets.
The elimination of cryptographic properties in social or interpersonal communication simply facilitates the subjugation.
Property - money, cryptocurrency at private wallets and cash in particular means liberty. Once society lose liberty in terms of abandoning or outlawing cash, that liberty won't be regained by elections.
I do not agree that encrypted app is stupid in the real world. Though, I agree that by build your own router, your own phone, your own app and then maybe you can have a chance.
One of my companies is operating the secure communication platform; we've built our facilities, network & server infrastructure, operating system for servers and terminal equipment and application ecosystem.
My companies do have inquires from different governments, both official and unofficial. With appropriate legal and compliance model, we operate with - how @gh0p say HNW/UHNW - niche clients for more then 10 years and we survived all kind of the tides. Mr Durov's approach was to head thru several walls, not just against the tides
Beside the legal aspect, due to design reasons, we aren't capable to intercept the content - the governments accept the argument though not liking it. And they intercept the traffic failing to decipher it
Thus, in order to have a game, we expect from other side to know how to play. And, we'll dance
Cash is the reason behind drug trade, money laundering, bribes and all evil causes this is why to have everything under blockchain is the answer, however some people see it as invision of privacy. This is same like when banks ask for kyc, you have to declare your assets your income and so on. There is no escape even some think they can hide everything in crypto and live off it. I heard rumors that the EU will be monitoring crypto transactions over 3000 euro. I think we will soon see that.You don't need to share your financial information. They're already available collated from various foreign and domestic sources - FATCA, CRS and DTT among other international agreements. The final solution - in perverse meaning it resembles a holocaust - is that people lose liberty, anonimity, confidentiality and privacy thru persistent identity (permanent biometric and social identification) and transparency (declaring above treshold financial and property information) and accepting digital payments from custodial fiat and crypto wallets.
The elimination of cryptographic properties in social or interpersonal communication simply facilitates the subjugation.
Property - money, cryptocurrency at private wallets and cash in particular means liberty. Once society lose liberty in terms of abandoning or outlawing cash, that liberty won't be regained by elections.
I do not agree that encrypted app is stupid in the real world. Though, I agree that by build your own router, your own phone, your own app and then maybe you can have a chance.
One of my companies is operating the secure communication platform; we've built our facilities, network & server infrastructure, operating system for servers and terminal equipment and application ecosystem.
My companies do have inquires from different governments, both official and unofficial. With appropriate legal and compliance model, we operate with - how @gh0p say HNW/UHNW - niche clients for more then 10 years and we survived all kind of the tides. Mr Durov's approach was to head thru several walls, not just against the tides
Beside the legal aspect, due to design reasons, we aren't capable to intercept the content - the governments accept the argument though not liking it. And they intercept the traffic failing to decipher it
Now for your setup I don't know what field yours is or how big is your business but once you reach the level of telegram, it is a whole new game, don't tell me you encrypt it. Government will ask for key, they are not stupid. Put yourself in Durov case, to give key or go to jail for 20 years?
Think about your family before you answer.
I may agree with majority of your opinions and statements. I would prefer a diversification - both cash and cryptocurrencies
Regarding to give key or go to jail for 20 years rest assured that my lawyers and other people I employ are damn good at their business. There isn't - still at least - mandatory key escrow in Global North. And, even though my companies aren't having multiple shareholders, they have stakeholders. That was one of Mr Durov's mistakes - lack of alliances.
We don't piss in anybody's backyard or at gate. We provide delicate products and services to any qualified end user and are here to stay for time to come. Mr Durov isn't the first in that business to be knocked out - historia magistra vitae est - he should have learnt from previous tides and mistakes of the others before him.
There could be a solution to make him ×10 richer but 0 privacy, after all we have no proof that telegram is really encrypted.I may agree with majority of your opinions and statements. I would prefer a diversification - both cash and cryptocurrencies
Regarding to give key or go to jail for 20 years rest assured that my lawyers and other people I employ are damn good at their business. There isn't - still at least - mandatory key escrow in Global North. And, even though my companies aren't having multiple shareholders, they have stakeholders. That was one of Mr Durov's mistakes - lack of alliances.
We don't piss in anybody's backyard or at gate. We provide delicate products and services to any qualified end user and are here to stay for time to come. Mr Durov isn't the first in that business to be knocked out - historia magistra vitae est - he should have learnt from previous tides and mistakes of the others before him.
And that is as @jafo mentioned before; Pavel could have gone IPO and list telegram at stock market. Now shareholders will be big corporations that will protect him.
Without commenting the technology and security of the advertized application - not a forum for it - I'll quote a part from a book most of the OCT forum participants probably read
Despise the free lunch
What is offered for free is dangerous - it usually involves either a trick or a hidden obligation. What has worth is worth paying for...
Mr Durov's another mistake is that he offered free lunch for everyone. And, at the end, he was billed for all the food everyone ate.
I don't want to go too far off-topic, but your quote about free doesn't apply to this type of application. I'm just suggesting an actual secure E2E app. In terms of features, it's garbage compared to Telegram, but if security is what you want, its best of the bunch.
Well, this thread is interesting and nothing we discussed is by even the most relaxed definiton off-topic.
Majority of secure communication applications for any platform is either not secure because of the design errors or is intentionaly honeypot. Sometimes they have secondary benefit, beside being COMINT source.
Regarding the comparison between advertized application and Mr Durov's Telegram, the security is more close to absolute zero for both.
I'm not in position to disclose details beside the fact I consider indiscretions as non professionalism. Though, I'll offer to the community a glimpse regarding similarities between Telegram and Simplex - and most importantly, key difference - lack of the stakeholders and abundance of them.
Namely, Simplex is designed by Mr Poberezkin - another Russian citizen who also got Western citizenship - in this case a British one. The company Simplex Chat Ltd is a UK one and is funded by Village Global VC fund
Village Global - Early Stage Venture Capital Backed by Some of the World's Best Entrepreneurs
Early stage venture capital backed by some of the world's best entrepreneurs.
www.villageglobal.vc
The lack of alliances were detrimental to Mr Durov's business where the abundance of them will greatly contribute to interests of Mr Poberezkin's sponsors.
Hence, conlusion related to free lunch is a universal one as that's the nature of this game.
There are literally pics of him with the Sheikh and other royal family members. The great relationship between them is the reason why he’s an Emirati citizen.
But the thing that’s so odd to me is him getting French Citizenship… How??? He received it the same year as his UAE Citizenship. Did he really live 5 years in France? I doubt he speaks French so it must be Macron that gave him citizenship
from wokepedia:
Durov was naturalized as a French citizen in August 2021, giving him European Union citizenship.[82]
Le Monde described the naturalisation as "mysterious", since Durov had not resided in France apart from brief visits.
Le Monde suggested that Durov was naturalised via the rarely used "merit foreigner" procedure that is awarded directly by the French government to people viewed to have contributed exceptionally to France's international influence or international economic relations.
Durov officially changed the French version of his name to Paul du Rove.
One year later, he told his fans that the application for a passport had been an April's Fools joke and that he had forgotten about that but then saw that "the application actually got approved and the passport reissued".[1]
#Bingo!
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@mraleph - Before I ask you a question, I'll admit and offer something in return (no free lunch
). I use my OWN messenger app (.apk) for business! It's NO longer available publicly, as many agencies went after it. I don't want to name it, but most people would not have heard of it anyway. I do have the original source code and I have modified it to serve my purpose and that of my clients and suppliers (i.e. those who qualify and agree on using it).For others, I use many of the publicly available ones, including but not limited to Telegram and SimpleX. It depends on which one my clients or suppliers use. As for private, the messenger I use is only really for trustworthy clients and suppliers I have known for plus a decade ***and*** have done turnovers in the +8 digits.
If it's NOT an indiscretion, may I ask you which "publicly" available messengers you use?
This MoFo REALLY picks the WORST women in human history!View attachment 7644
There are literally pics of him with the Sheikh and other royal family members. The great relationship between them is the reason why he’s an Emirati citizen.
But the thing that’s so odd to me is him getting French Citizenship… How??? He received it the same year as his UAE Citizenship. Did he really live 5 years in France? I doubt he speaks French so it must be Macron that gave him citizenship
Bruhhhhh....it's ONE thing banging hot chicks, but having kids and traveling with entitled gold diggers has GOT to be the dumbest thing a man can do!
I mean, has he not read the 48 Laws of Power and Law #10? Has he never heard of Marie Gilbert, aka Lola Montez?
For those who have unfortunately NOT gotten to this book/law yet, here is the complete Law # 10 in pdf: Law # 10 - Avoid the unhappy & unlucky - The story of Marie Gilbert aka Lola Montez.
Thank me later!
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@mraleph - Before I ask you a question, I'll admit and offer something in return (no free lunch
Quid pro quo isn't free lunch.
Off topic, but at your responsibility
I use two devices. One assumed compromised, an iPhone, for non vetted persons and information classified up to sensitive and the other for vetted persons and information classified as and above private.
On assumed compromised, I use all applications that exist for social communication. Asynchronous and asymmetrical channels are used when private and confidential information must be transmited thru an assumed compromised device with those applications.
Once a person is deemed to be vetted it's investigated and upon appropriate due diligence I offer another device for our further communication. I reserve that offer for partners or people that can be of other kinds of assistance.
I do not consider more then 10% of information to be above sensitive where less then 3% is above private - that is, confidential. Anything else is a defined paranoia
I'm not generous person - truly a cynic, so, not many get an offer for another device
I mean, has he not read the 48 Laws of Power and Law #10? Has he never heard of Marie Gilbert, aka Lola Montez?
Mr Durov probably read Dostoyevsky's Idiot and as every histrionic identified himself with a character. Narciss have that need for mirrors.
Whilst I do not have a respect for Mr Durov, Mr Musk as his contemporary has the qualities to play the game. Like Hauard Hughes once did.
But nonetheless, the man is a billionaire, and he’ll probably manage to get out of the problems he’s facing now. I’m sure there’s an army of lawyers ready to help him out of that mess.
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