EU Proposes Law To KYC All Wallet Transfers

[uplana]

I'm simply not born for what is coming. Damn I hate this control of every person and their doings in this world.

 

[Martin Everson]

I feel sorry for these young kids who invest in crypto without every cashing out. They see crypto as a savior from having to participate in the labor force or the real world. They lock themselves away in an echo chamber of never ending crypto shilling youtube videos and crypto news sites ran by pumper and dumpers and people with ulterior motives than their best interests. There is severe cognitive dissidence that occurs in the mind of such people that crypto can never be clamped down on despite the facts. A somehow euphoric belief that the wild west of crypto will never come to an end. A psychotic disillusion that btc or even xrp wil take over the world as the new global currency. Some even think they will replace the dollar. This is lies pumped to them by early adopters and investors looking to pump their holdings. This naivety and brainwashing has no boundaries sadly. Hence government has to step in and control the situation with tough regulations before it gets out of control and people lose everything. In the future what we will see is most cryptos become more and more undesirable as the promises they give are never delivered. In the end only a few native protocol cryptos will exist such as ETH or a similiar competitor. Bitcoin will have sentimental value but very little real world use unless it radically adapts which is not without resistance.

Anyway stay safe, diversify wisely and don't pin all your hopes on cryptos as dreams don't often come true.

Rant over

 

[JackAlabama]

I feel sorry for these young kids who invest in crypto without every cashing out. They see crypto as a savior from having to participate in the labor force or the real world. They lock themselves away in an echo chamber of never ending crypto shilling youtube videos and crypto news sites ran by pumper and dumpers and people with ulterior motives than their best interests. There is severe cognitive dissidence that occurs in the mind of such people that crypto can never be clamped down on despite the facts. A somehow euphoric belief that the wild west of crypto will never come to an end. A psychotic disillusion that btc or even xrp wil take over the world as the new global currency. Some even think they will replace the dollar. This is lies pumped to them by early adopters and investors looking to pump their holdings. This naivety and brainwashing has no boundaries sadly. Hence government has to step in and control the situation with tough regulations before it gets out of control and people lose everything. In the future what we will see is most cryptos become more and more undesirable as the promises they give are never delivered. In the end only a few native protocol cryptos will exist such as ETH or a similiar competitor. Bitcoin will have sentimental value but very little real world use unless it radically adapts which is not without resistance.

Anyway stay safe, diversify wisely and don't pin all your hopes on cryptos as dreams don't often come true.

Rant over

The echo chamber seems to be inside forum groups like here for example.
I tend to think a lot of people working with cryptocurrency tend to massively overestimate its current power to overcome these borders.
Most people outside the crypto ecosystem I talk to, do not give a flying f about Bitcoin, Blockchain, defi and what not and couldn't care even less. They just care that every year prices go up and their salary does not as it is not keeping pace with inflation, so there are still a lot of people who can discover these basic facts of why non-inflationary money will make their lives better.

Bitcoin has a lot of value e.g. in Africa and is being used to buy and sell housing for example as a very convienent, and in practice the only viable option.
I recently also got an offer to buy a villa in Argentina for Bitcoin. Same goes for Panama.
5 years ago I did not get any offer at all to buy a house with bitcoin for example.
So the usefulness of cryptocurrencies went up quite a lot.

It is a whole lot more convenient than dealing with this very unusable and time wasting legacy banking system, which is actually more of a surveillance system.
You can just navigate the banking system if you have preferred accounts, good relationships with them and accounts in different locations, which excludes a lot of the population.

Also why should btc adapt and to what exactly? It works very well in what it is supposed to do as is and with lightning I can pay small things instantly.
Eth is already a big mess today and they try to constantly adapt to whatever is coming and maybe eth 2.0 will finally come online by maybe 2050?

Reserve currencies also never lasted for too long if you look back in monetary history. So why should the usd last with the current state of affairs there and their insanely high debt levels? Something will replace it and it will not be the euro as this one is not a viable alternative as its members are deeply divided and very heterogenous and do not even have a common language. So it could be China, which even has a common language (Mandarin, which is spoken by most at highly different skill levels ), but will that go down easily now as they are being blamed for all evils of 2020?

If I recall correctly, heavily regulated and even outlawed goods and services, which are highly desired tend to have a very high market price.
So the eu should ban it tomorrow and try to save the failed euro project that way.

 

[troubled soul]

Whole Banking system , Even Fiat currency note works on the rule of "Trust".
As long as People "trust and use" Crypto will survive.

Only one thing can stop this is People stop using this.

 

[JackAlabama]

Whole Banking system , Even Fiat currency note works on the rule of "Trust".
As long as People "trust and use" Crypto will survive.

Only one thing can stop this is People stop using this.

yep. or a technical flaw which might very well could be an option. So the more complex it is (eth vs. bitcoin) the higher the chance of such a glitch could materialize and have grave consequences.
So, the game theory here for the govs is just to milk it than trying to ban/kill it. It in the end is 100x easier to do and fills up everyones coffers.
Just boost the price 100x, make all the lol moonfolks to sell, tax the winnings and spendings away and its done deal.
The eu might not get this as they basically do not get anything

 

[12345]

Whole Banking system , Even Fiat currency note works on the rule of "Trust".
As long as People "trust and use" Crypto will survive.

Only one thing can stop this is People stop using this.

true but USD is trusted because it's issued and backed by the most powerful country with strongest army etc. crypto currencies are not backed by any serious power only by belief

 

[troubled soul]

true but USD is trusted because it's issued and backed by the most powerful country with strongest army etc. crypto currencies are not backed by any serious power only by belief

 

[John Spectre]

Martin is great at throwing s**t into the fan about the crypto.
Despite the fact of the last few years, he spend hundreds hours for KYC of their banks and think how to save his capital with near zero interest bonds, while crypto kids became millionaires, because for same few years crypto grows for hundred of times

 

[JackAlabama]

true but USD is trusted because it's issued and backed by the most powerful country with strongest army etc. crypto currencies are not backed by any serious power only by belief

*still*
Economically they already behind China, the rest will follow soon as well if history is any guidance.
So, that time of usd dominance seems limited. The best for them would be to split and then one part can go the way of East Rome and enjoy a few decades of prosperity again, without the empire aspect of course.

However, USD cash bills is indeed still the best you can get your hands on in third world countries for your average joe, however that changes slowly and is not feasible for larger quantities anyway.

The notion of what wealth and strength actually is also changes throughout history.
Before it was huge a*s landmass (hence British empire with basically unlimited land, Japan copying it), onwards to small poor shithole islands like Singapore becoming top destinations in no time with no resources invalidating that notion of land mass equaling wealth.

So this day and age, wealth is the combined capacity of its people, whereas in the cryptocurrency project you will find the smartest and most intelligent people whereas in the biggest armies you find political hacks with a somewhat limited brain capacity

 

[Martin Everson]

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Funny how the highest volume crypto i.e USDT is backed by fiat and USD bank instruments......lol. Proves the point of what people think is stable and safe .

Martin is great at throwing s**t into the fan about the crypto.
Despite the fact of the last few years, he spend hundreds hours for KYC of their banks and think how to save his capital with near zero interest bonds, while crypto kids became millionaires, because for same few years crypto grows for hundred of times

Looks at these lies you post now....lol . I have held my AAA long dated treasuries for years that provide a good yield as I mentioned before. My bonds are ring fenced and very rarely move. Not sure where you got 100's of hours of KYC from .

P.S Crypto kids speculating on crypto can make you money like any form of speculation. However most people don't get lucky at the casino table .

 

[LegitBananas]

Funny how the highest volume crypto i.e USDT is backed by fiat and USD bank instruments......lol. Proves the point of what people think is stable and safe .



Looks at these lies you post now....lol . I have held my AAA long dated treasuries for years that provide a good yield as I mentioned before. My bonds are ring fenced and very rarely move. Not sure where you got 100's of hours of KYC from .

P.S Crypto kids speculating on crypto can make you money like any form of speculation. However most people don't get lucky at the casino table .

The issue here is that you think Crypto is speculation and you are not understanding that it is real investment into an instrument that solves a massive problem. Where do you draw the line between what is an "investment" and what is speculation?

The monetary system as currently constructed is extremely flawed. Our money is being inflated into the sky while we move further away from cash every day (and inevitably into more surveillance). How can you not acknowledge that the idea of crypto in general is a real asset class and not wild speculation? And BTW I'm talking about real, old projects that have real use case like BTC, ETH, XMR, - not pump n dump shitcoins made by scammers.

 

[Sols]

If this goes ahead, privacy coins will be effectively shut out of access to the regulated financial system. With no fiat on-ramps or off-ramps (or only clandestine/illegal ramps), privacy coins become useless unless accepted and perceived to hold value in and off themselves.

XMR to BTC to fiat won't work because the KYC will kick in demanding SOW for the BTC. Once it becomes known that it's XMR, the trade is cancelled and the person risks getting blacklisted and having an SAR filed.

People would still use it and there would still be ways to turn privacy coins into fiat, but it will be difficult, expensive, and risky.

 

[Martin Everson]

The issue here is that you think Crypto is speculation and you are not understanding that it is real investment into an instrument that solves a massive problem.

This is exactly the problem. You cannot generalise crypto. What sort of investment is it? The SEC has its opinion on that. As if it looks like a dog and barks like a dog it probably is a.......

Where do you draw the line between what is an "investment" and what is speculation?

The high level of risk involved.

How can you not acknowledge that the idea of crypto in general is a real asset class and not wild speculation?

You can't generalize the word crypto. Give me a specific example of a single real crypto investment?

And BTW I'm talking about real, old projects that have real use case like BTC, ETH, XMR,

Is this your examples of real crypto investments? What is your "real use case" for XMR for example ?

 

[John Spectre]

Looks at these lies you post now....lol . I have held my AAA long dated treasuries for years that provide a good yield as I mentioned before. My bonds are ring fenced and very rarely move.

Okay, Lets compare.
From the beginning of the 2017 BTC holding to today date increased in value for 3300%. What is your good yield for same period?
It's a what I meant saying your bonds literally zero interest compared to the crypto grow.
But sure, your 5% of 20 years bonds(or what you are have now) are cool in terms comparing to other today bonds.

Not sure where you got 100's of hours of KYC from .

From your posts, where do you actively boast having 100+ account in different bank. Regularly reported that one or another bank are closed your account or collapsed (just remember sata, city, georgia one and other shitty places where you had account).
Don't tell the fairytale now, that you don't spent time for yearly KYC for your banks.
It's a crypto wallets require literally 0 time for maintain it, but not banks

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

hehe that will be funny when all sensitive info is being written in each transaction which actually is trivial to do Adding custom data to bitcoin transaction – Cloud Invent

It seems the lobbyists just try to replicate swift with a caveat of how they will be able to enforce that. They have to bring the miners to stop every transaction which does not have these info in it.
And then we have lightning. How can this be enforced there?
Being an eu bureaucrat is a tough job.

Business as usual, these f*****s don't understand the s**t that they slap laws on, like if you hold a fungible coin that's called X. how can you prove that this 1 x isn't the same as any other X on the blockchain. spoiler: they can't. and that's what happens with monero. It's fungible and private by default and no matter how hard they try they can't do anything to stop it, unless they want to infiltrate the company behind it, which (spoiler#2) doesn't have a company, So how can they shut down something that they can't even reach.

But money laundering, terrorist financing, and the trigger words "children", cry me a river. but surprise, most of these crimes was and still is done via cash and regular financial systems aka banks, and the most popular one is the scandal of HSBC being fined 1.9 billion dollars for money laundering.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/newsr...ng-criminals-prefer-cash-for-money-laundering
https://www.investopedia.com/stock-...ndering-scandal-hbc-scbff-ing-cs-rbs0129.aspx

If this goes ahead, privacy coins will be effectively shut out of access to the regulated financial system. With no fiat on-ramps or off-ramps (or only clandestine/illegal ramps), privacy coins become useless unless accepted and perceived to hold value in and off themselves.

XMR to BTC to fiat won't work because the KYC will kick in demanding SOW for the BTC. Once it becomes known that it's XMR, the trade is cancelled and the person risks getting blacklisted and having an SAR filed.

People would still use it and there would still be ways to turn privacy coins into fiat, but it will be difficult, expensive, and risky.

Nope. simple because both regular and OTC p2p crypto is still a thing, parties in a p2p trade can be a financial service provider, a money exchanging desk, regular companies or individuals.

Also privacy coins has a value, they are "fungible" digital cash, just the same as any cash but digital. 1 monero is 1 monero, because of it's anonymous blockchain and the fungiblity feature of it.
however 1 btc isn't the same as any other btc because of the transparent blockchain, so you end up with "clean btc" and "dirty btc".

people who don't understand crypto think that BTC is the perfect heaven for criminals, when in reality, it's pretty terrible because of it's transparent blockchain and there are tools like chainalysis that makes tracking btc transactions easier than ever.

Look at localbitcoin or localcrypto or any other p2p service. you find a local, You send crypto to him and he sends you fiat from his local bank account to your local bank account, can be the same bank or a bank from the same country. Now, how can government stop that?. they can't, unless governments want banks to ban transfers to other accounts lol.

if you just want to avoid the west all together, look no further than Asia. p2p is the norm there and it's done in larger amounts without any annoying what's and ifs.

 

[LegitBananas]

Is this your examples of real crypto investments? What is your "real use case" for XMR for example ?

How about the most viable solution to untraceable digital cash at the moment... There's a reason darknet markets are all adopting it; these people are risking their lives and put their trust in it. You really, honestly believe that there isn't a use case/need for a digital, fungible, untraceable currency?

If you don't believe it then I have nothing more to say except do your homework. The beauty of it is it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in it. Tens or hundreds of thousands of people are transacting using these currencies like BTC & XMR every day and building real projects on networks like Ethereum... If you believe it's all fairy dust then that is your prerogative my friend. Many relatively smart people didn't believe in the internet either 2 decades ago.

Also you mention the high level of risk involved to define speculation. That is a very vague response and everyone has a different definition of what high risk means. Nobody in recorded history who has held bitcoin for more than 4 years has lost money. That seems like a pretty safe longterm investment especially when mass adoption hasn't even begun..

 

[John Spectre]

The high level of risk involved.

Is the real estate which in many countries has simply inadequate prices have a good level of risk?
Is the crazy stock market have a good level of risks, where companies have permanently terrible performance, but stocks are are higher high?
Example with car/electronic manufacturers are just great. Deficit of number of IC prevent you from quick shopping of any car from cheap chevy to luxury lambo, because factories literally stopped, and can produce only limited thigs, but stock price near ATH.

Yes, crypto is suck in investment, another instruments good.
You just forget to include something about crypto here, for example like a how binance are bad

What sort of investment is it?

Venture investment, no worse than investing in startups

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

You can't generalize the word crypto. Give me a specific example of a single real crypto investment?

there are lots of examples but a great example is Crypto ETPs, see:

https://21shares.com/ , and you can buy them from swissquote, IBKR...etc

putting some funds there and diversifying for a little bit wouldn't hurt, would it?

 

[Martin Everson]

What is your good yield for same period?
It's a what I meant saying your bonds literally zero interest compared to the crypto grow.
But sure, your 5% of 20 years bonds(or what you are have now) are cool in terms comparing to other today bonds.

My yield is roughly 4% on 16m in AAA treasury bonds as I have stated years ago on here. I am quite content with the income

From the beginning of the 2017 BTC holding to today date increased in value for 3300%.

That's a good speculative yield...lol. Almost as good as Titan LP token 1 billion % apr . btw you will know I ditched my bitcoin at end of 2017 if you read the forum .

From your posts, where do you actively boast having 100+ account in different bank. Regularly reported that one or another bank are closed your account or collapsed (just remember sata, city, georgia one and other shitty places where you had account).

How is this 100's of hours...lol. You have a good imagination however. Longest spent was couple of hours on BoG situation. The others were done in minutes over email while sat on beach especially citi Dubai issue. What about sata btw? .

 

[Martin Everson]

How about the most viable solution to untraceable digital cash at the moment... There's a reason darknet markets are all adopting it; these people are risking their lives and put their trust in it. You really, honestly believe that there isn't a use case/need for a digital, fungible, untraceable currency?

Right so your real use case for XMR is criminal activity. Got you....lol.