Secure chat to replace wickr

[JohnnyDoe]

There's also a big difference between people who refuse to encrypt and keep affairs private and those who are willing to let you guide them to install X, Y, or Z to get business done.

The former is a lost cause, and I walk from doing business with such people also.

Especially when all what it takes is downloading a free app

 

[Sols]

Thanks to huge blunders by Facebook and others, I find that it gets easier and easier to convince people to switch away from low-privacy to high-privacy apps. You won't get everyone to switch but the more the better.

 

[Mr Eros]

1. If your business contacts can't take reasonable precautions to protect sensitive information, are they really worth doing business with?

Oh cmon, would you refuse to deal with a client just because he preferred to use whatsapp instead of wickr? If so then you lose a lot of oppportunities. Doing business is all about your ability to adjust and a willingness to take a reasonable risk.

2. Privacy isn't measured in absolutes. Just because you can't mitigate 100% of threats, doesn't mean you shouldn't take reasonable steps to stay safe. It's kind of like saying don't bother locking your door because someone can still break the window. The more steps you can take, the better.

Your comparison is irrelevant. I am not appealing to expose sensitive content of private correspondence in public sources. All modern chat apps provide reasonable level of security and privacy. And you can stay anonimous if you wish so. Your comparison is kinda it's not enough just to lock your door, let's install a bulletproof armored door instead which can be destroyed by missile only. It's overthinking. Do you wear a body armor everytime you want to stroll around your city? Is your car armored? Can you have a sex without your bodygurds holding a candles beside your bed? Funny.

3. I wouldn't suggest using whatsapp due to their policy on pen registering (they keep a list of who you contact, and when). I wouldn't suggest Skype.

Besides the fact that no one forces you to verify your real identity so that to get registered in those apps, could you please give me a real life examples when Whatsapp, Google or Skype grants full access to your private correpondence to someone? Unless you are someone like Usama Bin Laden or Pablo Escobar you have nothing to worry about.

4. There are tons of reasons to want to ensure privacy and confidentiality other than being Pablo Escobar.

Exactly, and almost all popular chat apps ensure you privacy and confidentiality. No need to overthink.

 

[Sols]

Oh cmon, would you refuse to deal with a client just because he preferred to use whatsapp instead of wickr? If so then you lose a lot of oppportunities. Doing business is all about your ability to adjust and a willingness to take a reasonable risk.

Although rare, I have declined working with service providers and clients whose approach to security and privacy, after considering the overall value and opportunity, haven't met with my expectations. It's a risk/reward calculation.

Can Meta read WhatsApp messages? No.
Can Meta share meta data about WhatsApp messages? Absolutely.
Does Meta have other data that they can enrich the meta data with? Possibly.

You don't have to be Osama bin Escobar to find it valuable to reduce your risks.

Your comparison is irrelevant. I am not appealing to expose sensitive content of private correspondence in public sources. All modern chat apps provide reasonable level of security and privacy. And you can stay anonimous if you wish so. Your comparison is kinda it's not enough just to lock your door, let's install a bulletproof armored door instead which can be destroyed by missile only. It's overthinking.

If costs, everyday usage, installation, and maintenance are the same, why wouldn't you want a missile proof door?

Besides the fact that no one forces you to verify your real identity so that to get registered in those apps, could you please give me a real life examples when Whatsapp, Google or Skype grants full access to your private correpondence to someone?

They will all provide as much data as possible. IIRC, Skype is able to retrieve message history.

Exactly, and almost all popular chat apps ensure you privacy and confidentiality. No need to overthink.

No one is forcing you to use them.

 

[Mr Eros]

Although rare, I have declined working with service providers and clients whose approach to security and privacy, after considering the overall value and opportunity, haven't met with my expectations. It's a risk/reward calculation.

You are lucky, that you can afford to throw around your clients.

But the reality is different even when it comes to service providers. A lot of people on here are chasing after any shady untrustworthy EMI just to be able to provide themselves with any account. OP is an example.
And you say you are going to refuse a personal banker who accepts to chat with you in whatsapp just because you consider whatsapp in not secure enough? Good for you.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

A lot of people on here are chasing after any shady untrustworthy EMI just to be able to provide themselves with any account. OP is an example.

What’s wrong with having multiple accounts?

And you say you are going to refuse a personal banker who accepts to chat with you in whatsapp just because you consider whatsapp in not secure enough? Good for you.

There are idiots even among personal bankers, and this is one way to discover them.

Some say that a secure way to communicate is through video games chats. For example, you could have a private conversation within a COD match.

 

[OffshoreMonero]

There are idiots even among personal bankers, and this is one way to discover them.

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[Mr Eros]

What’s wrong with having multiple accounts?

Nothing wrong with that. What I mean that it's not always when you choose. Sometimes they choose you. And sometimes you need them more than they need you. That's when you have to adjust to them to comply with their standards. That's life.

And it is very true when it comes to communication. If you will impose inconvenient uncomfortable means of communication they can simply avoid you rather than comply. Say them you want to fax rather than email. But it's gone, and it's not up to today standards anymore. Same with unpopular apps. Try to convince why do they need shady app, when thye have whatsapp.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Try to convince why do they need shady app, when thye have whatsapp.

most of my contacts are smart enough to be able to install an app from AppStore/GPlay, including 80+ yo ladies and guys from third world countries. Even without being related to Escobar/Chapo families.

 

[Mr Eros]

most of my contacts are smart enough to be able to install an app from AppStore/GPlay, including 80+ yo ladies and guys from third world countries. Even without being related to Escobar/Chapo families.

Then you are really important to them, if they are ok to install new messenger just to satisfy you.

But if you will call to new EMI or bank and ask them for wickr or protonmail to pass them your application in the most secure way, they will laugh in your face, won't they?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

But if you will call to new EMI or bank and ask them for wickr or protonmail to pass them your application in the most secure way, they will laugh in your face, won't they?

Yes and I don’t even ask, with the exception of private bankers who agree on that and have the decency of not including sensitive information (such as acct n, name of account holder etc) in unencrypted communications. With all the money they steal from me on a yearly basis that’s the minimum to be expected.

 

[Sols]

You are lucky, that you can afford to throw around your clients.

Risk/reward calculation. Don't accept clients that pose a risk that's greater than the value of the client.

And you say you are going to refuse a personal banker who accepts to chat with you in whatsapp just because you consider whatsapp in not secure enough?

Same as above, it's a risk/reward calculation.

Yes, if I didn't consider WhatsApp secure enough (taking into account the value of the transaction/relationship), I would not accept a personal banker who communicated with me over WhatsApp.

 

[DarkRevoMan]

when thye have whatsapp

Whatsapp is one of the most common ways a phone can be hacked or infected. Jeff Bezos phone was hacked via a whatsapp for example. By sending an infected file, they were able to retrieve all his texts and other data on the phone.

Whatsapp also sends a list of contacts you talk to directly to various agencies every half an hour. Even if you are using a pre-paid number, they can figure out who you are based on the contact names.

Another problem with Whatsapp is that it is closed source unlike other options. Its highly likely it is even more unsecure than advertised.

For your answer about sending files to banks such as ID etc, usually banks used encryption in transit and often at rest. Also banks log which employees look at certain files. Looking at a customer's files without permission where I am located will get you fired, and also is illegal.

To answer your question about the armoured car, of course I would get an armoured car! Sure its expensive, but I value my life much more, if it prevents one attack it is more than worth it.

 

[otccryptoguy]

privacytools.io
privacyguides.org

Good resources for privacy focused providers.

 

[aragon]

In my limited use of it, I've been quite impressed with Jami. Peer to peer, encrypted, free/open software, prebuilt clients for desktop and mobile platforms. They even threw in support for old skool SIP in case you need that.

I just wish it were possible to move more people onto it.

 

[troubled soul]

Telegram Introduces No-SIM Sign-ups With Blockchain-Powered Numbers
https://telegram.org/blog/ultimate-privacy-topics-2-0

seems telegram people reading this fourm

 

[troubled soul]

https://simplex.chat/https://github.com/simplex-chatno phone number or email needed to use.

 

[Clank]

Session

 

[0cca]

There are robust alternatives available.

One such alternative is the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol, better known as XMPP, in combination with the Off-the-Record (OTR) plugin. XMPP is a widely used communication protocol with broad application across various message-oriented platforms. The OTR plugin further augments XMPP by adding layers of security and privacy.

The Off-the-Record plugin ensures your conversations are encrypted, safeguarding them from potential eavesdroppers. It also authenticates the participants in a conversation, thus assuring that your messages reach the intended recipient. Furthermore, OTR features perfect forward secrecy, which means your past conversations remain secure, even if your keys are compromised in the future. It also supports deniability, protecting your messages from being linked back to you.

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/OTRhttps://otr.cypherpunks.ca/
XMPP/OTR doesn't require you to disclose a phone number, a feature that maintains your privacy. Moreover, it is platform-independent, supporting Apple, Android, and Windows alike. The ease of use of XMPP/OTR ensures you don't have to grapple with complex interfaces to ensure secure communication. If you need your own XMPP server, I'm happy to help out with bulledproof super secure whatever servers and idiot proof ready set up XMPP.

 

[void]

There are robust alternatives available.

One such alternative is the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol, better known as XMPP, in combination with the Off-the-Record (OTR) plugin. XMPP is a widely used communication protocol with broad application across various message-oriented platforms. The OTR plugin further augments XMPP by adding layers of security and privacy.

The Off-the-Record plugin ensures your conversations are encrypted, safeguarding them from potential eavesdroppers. It also authenticates the participants in a conversation, thus assuring that your messages reach the intended recipient. Furthermore, OTR features perfect forward secrecy, which means your past conversations remain secure, even if your keys are compromised in the future. It also supports deniability, protecting your messages from being linked back to you.

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/OTRhttps://otr.cypherpunks.ca/
XMPP/OTR doesn't require you to disclose a phone number, a feature that maintains your privacy. Moreover, it is platform-independent, supporting Apple, Android, and Windows alike. The ease of use of XMPP/OTR ensures you don't have to grapple with complex interfaces to ensure secure communication. If you need your own XMPP server, I'm happy to help out with bulledproof super secure whatever servers and idiot proof ready set up XMPP.

I agree this is the most secure solution without compromise and doubts what third party solution is and what is not a honeypot

I was running my own XMPP server for years as described but we ended up using it internally with my closest coworkers because the client apps mostly suck big (despite there are tens of options) and it's mission impossible to guide anyone outside to install the right one for his OS/device and responding to complaints why it gets disconnected from time to time, why notifications are not reliable and file upload doesn't work at all - it's simply not worth the hassle to setup for occasional communication

so I ended up using signal, wickr or session which is good enough for my threat model however it's worth noting that these new apps are impossibly immature and even basic stuff like full text searching the messages are pain in the a*s - ICQ 25 years ago was on another level