Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

[Golden Fleece]

I hope things get dialed down in this conflict and mutual ground can be found. This conflict has opened up a much wider debate that has been festering in the background over use of sanctions. Sanctions will not work in this conflict. They have never fully worked against Cuba, Iran, North Korea or even Syria etc so what makes them think it will work against Russia.

Never worked? Those countries are all economic basket cases. They would all have burgeoning economies if they were free, capitalist countries that did not enslave their people. It is communism that does not work. Just compare the economies of South Korea and North Korea. The megalomaniacs who run those nations prefer power over the health, wealth, and welfare of their people.

To the degree that the nuts in charge are still in power, I suppose that one could argue that sanctions do not work in that respect. But sanctions certainly keep the world much safer from their mindless aggression. There is no doubt that Iran would have its own nuclear missiles and Cuba would have Russian nuclear missiles if not for sanctions.

 

[Martin Everson]

Never worked? Those countries are all economic basket cases.

Yes never worked like I said. Sanctions do not work in their objective. Sanctions only affect ordinary people it does not change the system or government at all in any of those states. In fact it has had the opposite affect. It has meant countries like Iran and North Korea have advanced their weapons programs and nuclear technology and become more self sufficient and advanced in violating sanctions. Ask yourself why those countries have not collapsed with sanctions being on them for decades....lol.

P.S Lets not get off topic now and keep thread on topic.

 

[polonieth]

Have the people who claimed I was wrong when I said Russia was winning this war easily woken up yet?

The uptick in videos showing this over the last couple of weeks is off the scale.

The Ukrainian's are getting obliterated right now. The loss of life is ridiculous, young men dying for absolutely nothing. A tragedy.

All while the Zelensky regime, who will flee to their mansions in Miami when this is over, are happy to obey the USA and continue sending people to their demise like lambs to the slaughter.

 

[Gediminas]

Have the people who claimed I was wrong when I said Russia was winning this war easily woken up yet?

The uptick in videos showing this over the last couple of weeks is off the scale.

The Ukrainian's are getting obliterated right now. The loss of life is ridiculous, young men dying for absolutely nothing. A tragedy.

All while the Zelensky regime, who will flee to their mansions in Miami when this is over, are happy to obey the USA and continue sending people to their demise like lambs to the slaughter.

Russia already lost. It's just that for you, being Russian, it's too difficult to see that. But they lost already, eventually, you will understand what I meant.

The Ukrainian's are getting obliterated right now. The loss of life is ridiculous, young men dying for absolutely nothing. A tragedy.

It's ridiculous to see such a comment from you when you are happy your dictator is the one who started that and doesn't want to finish.

 

[Jerry1911]

Russia already lost. It's just that for you, being Russian, it's too difficult to see that. But they lost already, eventually, you will understand what I meant.

I agree... they lost McDonalds, KFC and Starbucks

Russia is certainly not losing the war. The consequences for Russia are a different story though. Like Martin said, sanctions have no effect whatsoever and the reality is that the EU is totally helpless and has no alternative for the gas coming from Russia. Hence why they are still paying up to 800 million euros per day for it.

 

[Golden Fleece]

Russia already lost. It's just that for you, being Russian, it's too difficult to see that. But they lost already, eventually, you will understand what I meant.

Putin clearly miscalculated. He expected an easy victory with a three-day advance into Kyiv, help from Russian-speaking Ukrainians, and the implementation of a Russian puppet regime. Hell, even all the military experts in the U.S. claimed that it would only take three days for the Russians to take Kyiv.

Unless Russia takes Kyiv, it has likely lost the war. The only other way that Russia could claim a real victory is if it captures the entire coastline and makes Ukraine into a landlocked nation. It would be extremely difficult to get past the huge river near Mykolaiv, especially with the Russian navy at risk from anti-ship missiles.

 

[MrPepper]

Have the people who claimed I was wrong when I said Russia was winning this war easily woken up yet?

The uptick in videos showing this over the last couple of weeks is off the scale.

The Ukrainian's are getting obliterated right now. The loss of life is ridiculous, young men dying for absolutely nothing. A tragedy.

All while the Zelensky regime, who will flee to their mansions in Miami when this is over, are happy to obey the USA and continue sending people to their demise like lambs to the slaughter.

The only person that can end this war is the one that started it.

Zelenskiy didn't order a 'special operation' to attack Russia and bomb Moscow. Ukraine was literally 0 threat to Russia, I think everyone knows this by now.

As I recall, 150-200k Russians came with bombs, airplanes, and tanks to Ukrainian land to conquer, kill, bomb etc. Russia never wanted to negotiate. They want to take land from Ukraine. Donbas, Crimea, and so on as Putin is imperialist. Just watch their media, it really sounds like nazi Germany. They are mentioning ww3, nazis, nuclear attacks on US, Poland, denizifying the whole of Europe, and so on. It's crazy...

Ukraine has the right to defend and the west has the right to help them with weapons and financially. This war is unwinnable for Russia. This is not Checenia, Ukraine is huge.

Also what about 20k Russian soldiers that are dead? Do you think they wanted to be there getting killed? Russian wifes got 140 euros for the deaths of their husbands. That's how much they are worth to Putin - 140 euros...

Russia is not winning this war, they might have won some battles, but long run they can not win it. Especially not with 150k soldiers. It will probably end up like it ended up in the north, with them retreating with great losses and Russians threatening the whole world with nuclear bombs.

This war will end when Putin decides it because he is the one that started it. And it can only end with retreating to pre-2014 situation.

 

[Golden Fleece]

the reality is that the EU is totally helpless and has no alternative for the gas coming from Russia. Hence why they are still paying up to 800 million euros per day for it.

It is almost as if some of you people live in another world. This will finally force Europe to find other energy supplies, just as China's actions have finally forced U.S. companies to find other manufacturing centers. It has already begun. There are a dozen examples, these are just a few:

THENS, Greece (AP) — Mountainous and remote, the Greek-Bulgaria border once formed the southern corner of the Iron Curtain. Today, it’s where the European Union is redrawing the region’s energy map to ease its heavy reliance on Russian natural gas.

A new pipeline — built during the COVID-19 pandemic, tested and due to start commercial operation in June — will ensure that large volumes of gas will flow between the two countries in both directions to generate electricity, fuel industry and heat homes.

The 180-kilometer (110-mile) project is the first of several planned gas interconnectors that will allow eastern European Union members and countries hoping to join the 27-nation bloc access to the global gas market. In the short term, it’s Bulgaria’s backup.

The pipeline connection will give the country access to ports in neighboring Greece that are importing liquefied natural gas, or LNG, and also will bring gas from Azerbaijan through a new pipeline system that ends in Italy.

It's one of many efforts as member states scramble to edit their energy mix, with some reverting back to emissions-heavy coal while also planning expanded output from renewables. Germany, the world’s biggest buyer of Russian energy, is looking to build LNG import terminals that would take years, and Italy, another top Russian gas importer, has reached deals with Algeria, Azerbaijan, Angola and Congo for gas supplies.

The European Union wants ax its dependence on Russian oil and gas by two-thirds this year and completely over five years through alternative sources, wind and solar, and conservation.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is likely to accelerate changes in the EU’s long-term strategy, adapting to energy that is more expensive but also more integrated among member states, said Simone Tagliapietra, an energy expert and research fellow at the Brussels-based think tank Bruegel.

“It’s a new world,” he said. “And in this new world, it’s clear that Russia doesn’t want to be part of an international order as we think of it.” Tagliapietra added: “The strategy — particularly by Germany — over the last 50 years was always one of engaging with Russia on energy. ... But given what we are seeing in Ukraine and given Russia’s view of international relations, it’s not the kind of country with which we would like to do business.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=cc22ec47df85486f8c79f28de5116a60

 

[MrPepper]

You can feel the nervousness in the air. It's definitely not going well for Russia and they are preparing the ground as if they are in the war with NATO, not with Ukraine. Just in case they lose

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519613535424323585

(denazify NATO and Europe?)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518787412620726273

(no Ukrainian language?)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518483479931105282

(wait, is this ISIS strategy?)

Everyone pro-Putin. Tell me this is normal (watch the two videos from above)

 

[ih8socialism]

You can feel the nervousness in the air. It's definitely not going well for Russia and they are preparing the ground as if they are in the war with NATO, not with Ukraine. Just in case they lose

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519613535424323585

(denazify NATO and Europe?)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518787412620726273

(no Ukrainian language?)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518483479931105282

(wait, is this ISIS strategy?)

Everyone pro-Putin. Tell me this is normal (watch the two videos from above)

Most people who are putin cucks haver never lived or have family who lived under soviet influence back then. Especially far rights in the western world seem sympathize with Putin and Russia and I don't even understand why. Most seem to be pro russian just for the cause of being against the current mainstream narrative lmao

 

[polonieth]

You guys are hilarious. Stupid, and essentially aiding the death of Ukrainians but hilarious. Falling for the most basic propaganda going.

I keep seeing stuff like "miscalculated"

A three day advance into Kiev? You have got to be joking here. Any military strategist that isn't a propaganda merchant knows that Kiev was never planned to be taken. The Russians have manoeuvred well, they tied up Kiev which meant that the large forces in the east could not be resupplied. Which is now why there are thousands upon thousands of troops surrounded who will either be slaughtered or make the wise choice to surrender.

I don't really know why people can't see it for what it is. The Russians are winning very much so. Still losing the information war though, which is probably why the non thinkers keep churning out the same nonsense in this thread.

It's gotten so bad that it wouldn't surprise me if Poland lay claim to Lviv and there's some stupid stuff to happen in Transistria. The west is getting desperate.

Russia already lost. It's just that for you, being Russian, it's too difficult to see that. But they lost already, eventually, you will understand what I meant.



It's ridiculous to see such a comment from you when you are happy your dictator is the one who started that and doesn't want to finish.

Just another terrible take.

I'm not happy to see war. Especially not a proxy war via the USA and one of its puppet states. As civilians are the ones who suffer for nothing.

And not just Ukrainian ones. Russian, and now all of Europe, Africa etc. Many will starve due to the conduct of the Zelensky regime and the CFR actions.

Russia beat Ukraine to the punch. You don't amass 60k troops in the Donbass otherwise.

 

[MrPepper]

You guys are hilarious. Stupid, and essentially aiding the death of Ukrainians but hilarious. Falling for the most basic propaganda going.

I keep seeing stuff like "miscalculated"

A three day advance into Kiev? You have got to be joking here. Any military strategist that isn't a propaganda merchant knows that Kiev was never planned to be taken. The Russians have manoeuvred well, they tied up Kiev which meant that the large forces in the east could not be resupplied. Which is now why there are thousands upon thousands of troops surrounded who will either be slaughtered or make the wise choice to surrender.

I don't really know why people can't see it for what it is. The Russians are winning very much so. Still losing the information war though, which is probably why the non thinkers keep churning out the same nonsense in this thread.

It's gotten so bad that it wouldn't surprise me if Poland lay claim to Lviv and there's some stupid stuff to happen in Transistria. The west is getting desperate.

Presenting losses as a great strategy and wins sound very communist-like...

Also, the same thing they were saying in the beginning at the north. That Russia is going to occupy Kiev. After that, they lost 15k+ soldiers there and presented it as a great strategy. If losing that many personnel is a strategy, then good job.

 

[polonieth]

Presenting losses as a great strategy and wins sound very communist-like...

Also, the same thing they were saying in the beginning at the north. That Russia is going to occupy Kiev. After that, they lost 15k+ soldiers there and presented it as a great strategy. If losing that many personnel is a strategy, then good job.

Post the primary source material that Russia lost 15k troops around Kiev.

 

[MrPepper]

I'll not be searching for articles for you because even if I post, you will say it's propaganda.

Ukrainian sources say 23k+ troops dead in two months and 15k+ around kiev
UK sources say 15k+ total in 2 months
American similarly
Some independent ones are also similar to UK.
Russian sources I think it was 1,5k the last time they let the public know about their losses.

P.S. Moskva is sitll floating... It's all western propaganda it has sunk

 

[polonieth]

I'll not be searching for articles for you because even if I post, you will say it's propaganda.

Ukrainian sources say 23k+ troops dead in two months and 15k+ around kiev
UK sources say 15k+ total in 2 months
American similarly
Some independent ones are also similar to UK.
Russian sources I think it was 1,5k the last time they let the public know about their losses.

P.S. Moskva is sitll floating... It's all western propaganda it has sunk

So you don't have anything other than spurious claims. That sums up this thread.

The majority of it is hearsay with zero attention paid to facts or operational realities. No critical thought, just repeating the narrative that is drilled into them.

I wouldn't mind the obvious pro Ukraine / CFR / neo Nazi sentiment as long as it was based on facts. But half the posters on this thread are living in a make believe world where the Ghost of Kiev is still shooting down Russian planes and Bucha was an act of Russian genocide.

 

[RealDude]

NATO ready to support Ukraine ‘for months and years’ of fighting​

„Stoltenberg said that it is in the hands of Russian President Vladimir Putin to stop the military action as it was him “who started the war.” Therefore, Stoltenberg said, Western countries will continue “to put maximum pressure on President Putin to end the war” by sanctioning Moscow and by providing economic and military support to Ukraine.“

https://www.rt.com/russia/554736-nato-ready-support-ukraine/

 

[MrPepper]

So you don't have anything other than spurious claims. That sums up this thread.

The majority of it is hearsay with zero attention paid to facts or operational realities. No critical thought, just repeating the narrative that is drilled into them.

I wouldn't mind the obvious pro Ukraine / CFR / neo Nazi sentiment as long as it was based on facts. But half the posters on this thread are living in a make believe world where the Ghost of Kiev is still shooting down Russian planes and Bucha was an act of Russian genocide.

You are delusional as most people who trust everything Putin's propaganda say... Here you go since you can not use google, or maybe it's banned in Russia. I don't know. But there is no use because you will say it's all fake news.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukr...-russian-troops-killed-in-war-so-far/2575405#https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/8/we-have-significant-losses-and-its-a-huge-tragedy-kremlinhttps://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...lled-so-far-ukraine-says-101650628575341.htmlhttps://www.csis.org/analysis/russian-casualties-ukraine-reaching-tipping-pointhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
If you go to Yandex since you are probably a Russian troll for 10 cents an hour, it will probably say the Kiev has been taken and there were 0 casualties. So take that as your truth.

Calling other people stupid for not agreeing with you is just a light version of your leader which usually kills the ones who disagree with him. Congrats on that!

Just by you calling Ukrainian sources as Neo-Nazi, tells me that you are deep in Putlers a*s and eating everything that comes from it.

For now, what Russia has achieved is a loss of a huge amount of troops (whichever number you want to use from above), god knows how many planes, tanks etc. They also helped/forced Europe to speed up the diversification of gas and oil supplies. EU will do everything they can in the next 1-3 years to minimize Russian imports. And don't forget, Russia helped NATO get Sweeden and Finland to consider joing. They were neutral before, great job

 

[ih8socialism]

You guys are hilarious. Stupid, and essentially aiding the death of Ukrainians but hilarious. Falling for the most basic propaganda going.

I keep seeing stuff like "miscalculated"

A three day advance into Kiev? You have got to be joking here. Any military strategist that isn't a propaganda merchant knows that Kiev was never planned to be taken. The Russians have manoeuvred well, they tied up Kiev which meant that the large forces in the east could not be resupplied. Which is now why there are thousands upon thousands of troops surrounded who will either be slaughtered or make the wise choice to surrender.

I don't really know why people can't see it for what it is. The Russians are winning very much so. Still losing the information war though, which is probably why the non thinkers keep churning out the same nonsense in this thread.

It's gotten so bad that it wouldn't surprise me if Poland lay claim to Lviv and there's some stupid stuff to happen in Transistria. The west is getting desperate.


Just another terrible take.

I'm not happy to see war. Especially not a proxy war via the USA and one of its puppet states. As civilians are the ones who suffer for nothing.

And not just Ukrainian ones. Russian, and now all of Europe, Africa etc. Many will starve due to the conduct of the Zelensky regime and the CFR actions.

Russia beat Ukraine to the punch. You don't amass 60k troops in the Donbass otherwise.

Yes its a proxy war, but Russia started this whole cluster f**k without a single reason. Russias mental gymnastic to justify this war is on another Level.

The russians are winning nothing, they losing big time in a long term run. The russian army is maybe winning battles (or even the war) but the country itself will be even more fucked than before.

Natural Resources:
EU will become less and less dependent on Russian gas and oil, other countries can't compensate the amount the european countries are buying from russia + the infrastructure to sell those amounts to for example china are not even there, they would require massive investments. Russia needs to sell their natural resources to way lower prices now and other countries only cares about their own interests.

Aviation:
Russias aviation will totally get fucked. Airbus + Boeing are not selling anything anymore to Russia, so how they wanna keep up with the maintenance? Russian aviation industry is not capable of saving it, esepcially not short term. Even during the cold war Soviet Union used western technology for their aviation industry, and keep in mind that most of the aviation development happend in the Ukraine. Also Russia started seizing leased planes, who will lease them planes anymore even if the sanctions would be dropped?

Aviation is a big thing in a country that big as russia with many remote places.

Technology:
How will they the substitute the loss of the whole western technology market? Even companies like Huawei are shying away from Russian market which is very small for them compared to the western market.

Human Capital:
Many of skilled russians already left the country and will prolly do in the next few months / years (EU and US should just launch a special visa programm for high skilled russians) .

China:
Like mentioned above china doesn't give a flying f**k about russia, they gonna suck everything they can get out of russia and make them their puppet. Remember the time when the bought russian weapons on large scale? They just copied everything the russians made and started building it on their own lmao and couple chinese state owned banks stopped / halted their investments. And don't forget the war is basically meddling with chinas new silk road

Russia was before this war started already a deranged aids infested third world country, now it will get even worse for the population. Ukranians suffer from the war and russian population will even have a more miserable life than before. Putin invested most of their GDP into military and other useless s**t instead of building an economy which is not dependent on natural resources and generating wealth for its citizens.

There is literraly no winner here. Only Putin wins in his delusional neo soviet mind.

Also whats your solution? Ukraine declaring defeat and then living under Russia? I admit that Ukraine and the west has many flaws, but hell no I never want to live under Russian Flag.

 

[no1d]

There are solutions to replace this fucking gas, its called heat pump and I use one for over 10 years. Next I'm gonna install solar panels and cut the energy bill in half.
But people go cheap when they build new houses, they like cheap Russian gas and now they're in deep s**t.

 

[Golden Fleece]

Putin invested most of their GDP into military and other useless s**t instead of building an economy which is not dependent on natural resources and generating wealth for its citizens.

This. I wrote a long post about this exact issue in another thread. Russia has a well-educated populace. It was one of the few nations that could have created an offshore center impervious to Western leverage. It could have focused on science and technology, as well as natural resource development.

Putin could have done so much for his people had he simply embraced capitalism instead of cronyism and corruption.