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Mining is just a way to make a bit of free money on the side
mining is absolutely essential, transforming (burning if you like) physical world energy into digital scarcity is what makes it one of the greatest (if not number one) inventions in human history that will transform the world as we see it nowadays
without mining there is no bitcoin and value
crypto without mining is just a computer game not any different from many other failed attempts in history to utilize trust to create money (tool to conserve wealth/capital, a tool that makes humans different from other life forms)

period, thanks for playing
 
It blows my mind the level of mental gymnastics some people will do just to try and discredit such an incredible idea like BTC or crypto in general.

Is it true that there are sheep speculating just for profit? Yes. Is it true that lots of people are complying with KYC when buying? Also yes. It's worth 2 TRILLION f*cking dollars. There are going to be all kind of people involved, including sheep, dumb people, smart people, criminals, accredited investors, speculators, boomers, children. Literally all walks of life. It's impossible for something to get this big without having all types of people involved.

BTC isn't even meant to be used to buy coffee or to be some cyberpunk underground money to buy drugs even if thats how it started. That narrative died in 2017. Bitcoin now primarily exists to digitize value in an honest and decentralized way that can't be censored by any single entity. If people wan't to speculate then that's their prerogative.

Regarding other criticisms of bitcoin (slow, not private, expensive). Again, people are failing to see the bigger picture of crypto and decentralized finance. Of course other coins/networks are better & more efficient than bitcoin for certain types of transactions, Alt coins aren't going away anytime soon. But BTC due to its vast network, level of decentralization, scarcity - and yes, first movers advantage, will always be the biggest player. It's digital gold and when you want to use some of it you can easily swap to USDT/XMR/SOL/ETH/whatever

Some people are just unable to see past their blind hatred for a certain coin to truly understand what the future of finance looks like. Half of the infrastructures and decentralized systems of the future don't even exist yet.
 
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Wow... All of you are presenting great perspectives to consider about Bitcoin, and none are without merit. I personally believe that Bitcoin offers the absolute best opportunity for long-term wealth preservation and growth. Its history of resilience, adoption, and overall price appreciation speaks volumes. But I also think that it's important to get more Bitcoin into the hands of the masses b/c if the bulk of Bitcoin's supply continues to be held and acquired by the few, there will come a point in time (if that time has not already arrived) when Bitcoin will be just as controlled, abused, and manipulated as fiat-based currencies.

The masses are already falling short with about 1 million wallets holding nearly 93% of the circulating supply (owning 1 BTC or more) and the remaining supply in a whopping 53.5 million wallets - https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

Ultimately, it's the inflationary monetary system that most of us commenting in this tread despise and seek freedom from. So let's not be easily divided or offended by different perspectives or opinions. But please do continue to share your thoughts because a lot of info being shared in this thread is thought provoking. Also, after reading many of the comments from this thread, it's clear that most of you are critical thinkers that take the time to dyor and assess information to make informed decisions. And considering that this room is filled with a variety of great minds, imagine how strong and effective we could be if we were united against this corrupt monetary system and worked constructively to bring more awareness & education about cryptocurrencies.

So for those of you that are Bitcoin advocates and that have posted in this thread thus far, I'd really appreciate you taking some time to assess a Bitcoin wallet and sharing your feedback about it. It's rare that I encounter such a group of critical thinkers that are ready to speak their minds, so your feedback (whether good or bad) is invaluable. Note that this Bitcoin wallet was designed to help circumvent every inherent deficiency that is associated with Bitcoin today (i.e. slow transaction speeds, potentially expensive fees, impractical means of sending micropayments, and inability to earn yield from Bitcoin holdings).

With these wallets, Bitcoin is no longer restricted to being just a store of value, but can now be used as an efficient method of payment, medium of exchange, or a yield-generating asset. The use cases for Bitcoin are now endless, limited only to the imagination and understanding of the wallet's capabilities. I understand that most Bitcoiners cannot conceive of such capabilities existing within a wallet, but it's an entirely new concept that many fail to grasp until they experience it for themselves.

So for those of you that have previously commented in this thread, I'll send you $20 in BTC (real BTC not tokenized BTC) to test the wallet and share your feedback. If interested in participating, send me a dm. Looking forward to getting feedback from some knowledgeable Bitcoin maxis and answering any questions that you may have.
 
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There is no agenda or shilling because if everyone on this thread dropped BTC and switched to XMR, it wouldn't change anything in the wider world. My posts are not an attempt to wake up the masses.

The point is if you look at cryptos with a view to making profit, you're in it for the wrong reasons. Mining is just a way to make a bit of free money on the side, it is not the focus of cryptos, which is decentralized currencies. This misuse of BTC has allowed the governments to control your BTC, defeating the entire purpose of its existence. Monero is currently the only viable currency to keep out of government control now. If BTC goes the way of tulips, those who misused it for profit will have deserved their losses.


You're not supposed to use it as a get rich scheme.
who says so? I am supposed to use it as I like. ;)

Thats what deflationary currencies are.

Todays bitcoin poverty is tomorrows bitcoin enough, todays bitcoin enough is tomorrows bitcoin rich.
whereas
todays fiat rich is tomorrows fiat enough, todays fiat enough is tomorrows fiat poverty.

What proof are you asking for, that BTC is primarily used for speculation and hardly anyone actually buys pizzas with it? This demand for proof of something so blatantly obvious is just an attempt at stalling the discussion. But here:

Almost no one uses Bitcoin as currency, new data proves. It’s actually more like gambling

Most bitcoin owners use them to speculate on crypto markets, survey finds
well these are just opinions from wrong.com. Its used for payments as are usd bills used in shithole countries.
Agreed the sheep are going to sheep, and that's why KYC now controls most of the BTC investments whereas it didn't before. That's why BTC profits will now be taxed. That's why BTC can now be confiscated at the whims of the powers that be. BTC has become a poisoned well.
nah. wrong.com again. It has or hasnt been taxed for very long time already (depending on ones circumstances).
It looks to you like that because you're very new to the party.
 
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Gotta admit that I too enjoyed the thoughts that you shared. Black swan events do occur but I doubt that anything will significantly impact Bitcoin since too much is being held and acquired by a relatively small handful of manipulating powers.

But I'd reconsider that 2-month max that you're thinking of... Ever heard the saying "Never short Bitcoin"? For the most part, I've found this saying to be true and Bitcoin has proven to be the best play for long-term wealth generation, particularly when holding it for the long term and even better when acquiring it regularly when the price falls. Cash out if you really need to but if you do, you may want to set some of that capital aside to buy more BTC when you can.

I respect your views very much, as I have had the same outlook in the past.

But let me explain my mindset a little. I have been mining BTC in 2011 on my old laptop, buying and trading on MTGox ( I even had a meeting with Karpeles at the Mt.Gox office in Shibuya (who was a fatty wearing a black Metallica t-shirt then). Only reason why I haven't join them was that 'officially' the staff wasn't allowed to trade, even in private.

Later on, I got rugged by MTGox (like so many) for >1000 BTC, and then I had enough and I left the market for a while. All I have left from that time is a Yubikey with the MTGox logo on it in my drawer. And for some J@*#(&%Y@ reason, I missed the deadline to file my claim with the trustee (really, really stupid reason: my email changed and so I missed the deadline by a week, as I read about it on the net too late).

I reentered the market later on @ $200-$600, and have been just a hodler, accumulating and hodling strong. On the side, I was working on the technical side with some of the bigger blockchains (they are still going strong today, but I won't DOXX myself by mentioning which).

Coming to my point, during the years I saw my wealth dropping 80% during the bear markets, as I didn't sell, following the same ideology you mentioned above. I still can remember how it feels, and I still can see myself going to some wage cuck job and checking the price on my phone in the morning on the way to work, seeing my wealth evaporate.

What I learned from it?
NEVER AGAIN.

What it did to me?
It killed my emotions in trading.

I don't care anymore if it goes up or down, I just want to make a profit from each move.

I feel nothing losing 100K in 3h anymore. After experiencing it so many times, it killed the emotions inside me and made me just rational instead of emotions or 'wants' taking over, learn risk management, and trade both sides.

Cycles are a fact, and taking profits is healthy. No one ever lost money taking profit.
One can always re-enter the market.

Mathematically, BTC is getting more scarce every day, as less and less of it get mined, while the world population increases, and people - as well as financial institutions - are purchasing more of it.

But let me tell you something, that very financial institutions are not hodlers, but make money trading, using options, futures, and everything they can get hold of, to make profits buying and selling. And they can see that the market believes in halving cycles, you can bet that they gonna short it hard when the time is ripe.

Should I hodl it, while the banksters make billions with their shorts, and lose 60-80% again, having to wait for years for it to get back up? That would be the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again.

Shorting BTC with 10% of wealth? That's risk management, if my timing is wrong and I lose that, I am still good.
At least I get something to do, while waiting for a re-entry about 1-2 years later.

Reentering BTC lower? Hell yeah, sure thing.

But that's just me, everyone does his own thing.
 
Later on, I got rugged by MTGox (like so many) for >1000 BTC, and then I had enough and I left the market for a while. All I have left from that time is a Yubikey with the MTGox logo on it in my drawer. And for some J@*#(&%Y@ reason, I missed the deadline to file my claim with the trustee
I think this is where you've become emotionless. As today's price you would worth 9 figures.
 
I respect your views very much, as I have had the same outlook in the past.

But let me explain my mindset a little. I have been mining BTC in 2011 on my old laptop, buying and trading on MTGox ( I even had a meeting with Karpeles at the Mt.Gox office in Shibuya (who was a fatty wearing a black Metallica t-shirt then). Only reason why I haven't join them was that 'officially' the staff wasn't allowed to trade, even in private.

Later on, I got rugged by MTGox (like so many) for >1000 BTC, and then I had enough and I left the market for a while. All I have left from that time is a Yubikey with the MTGox logo on it in my drawer. And for some J@*#(&%Y@ reason, I missed the deadline to file my claim with the trustee (really, really stupid reason: my email changed and so I missed the deadline by a week, as I read about it on the net too late).

I reentered the market later on @ $200-$600, and have been just a hodler, accumulating and hodling strong. On the side, I was working on the technical side with some of the bigger blockchains (they are still going strong today, but I won't DOXX myself by mentioning which).

Coming to my point, during the years I saw my wealth dropping 80% during the bear markets, as I didn't sell, following the same ideology you mentioned above. I still can remember how it feels, and I still can see myself going to some wage cuck job and checking the price on my phone in the morning on the way to work, seeing my wealth evaporate.

What I learned from it?
NEVER AGAIN.

What it did to me?
It killed my emotions in trading.

I don't care anymore if it goes up or down, I just want to make a profit from each move.

I feel nothing losing 100K in 3h anymore. After experiencing it so many times, it killed the emotions inside me and made me just rational instead of emotions or 'wants' taking over, learn risk management, and trade both sides.

Cycles are a fact, and taking profits is healthy. No one ever lost money taking profit.
One can always re-enter the market.

Mathematically, BTC is getting more scarce every day, as less and less of it get mined, while the world population increases, and people - as well as financial institutions - are purchasing more of it.

But let me tell you something, that very financial institutions are not hodlers, but make money trading, using options, futures, and everything they can get hold of, to make profits buying and selling. And they can see that the market believes in halving cycles, you can bet that they gonna short it hard when the time is ripe.

Should I hodl it, while the banksters make billions with their shorts, and lose 60-80% again, having to wait for years for it to get back up? That would be the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again.

Shorting BTC with 10% of wealth? That's risk management, if my timing is wrong and I lose that, I am still good.
At least I get something to do, while waiting for a re-entry about 1-2 years later.

Reentering BTC lower? Hell yeah, sure thing.

But that's just me, everyone does his own thing.

Yep yep... I'm with you 100%. I've been in since 2017 and have seen a couple long and drawn out bear markets. And while I was making some great returns from trading, that came to an end around Nov 2021 when the high volatility ceased. So I get it and based on your response, I hit me that I should've been clearer in my previous reply, meaning don't bet the house and the kitchen sink - just the kitchen sink. So when I speak of holding long term and buying more, its with a smaller amount of capital that you won't miss. And it's particularly better to beef up those buys 6 months before the halving. So I'm with you on that.

And you make a great point about the institutions not only being aware of the cycles, but understanding that many more crypto enthusiasts are aware of it as well. So to that point, it's quite possible for the peak to hit in early 2025 as institutions being selling off (especially if it's a coordinated effort). However I'm 50/50 on this because that's a long 6-month stint that institutions can leverage, allowing much more capital to come in over that period of time. I can see them dumping a month or two before the historic peaks, but can't that I'm convinced that they'll dump 6 months ahead of historic ATH times (too much $$$ to be made).

But your argument about the timing of being a couple months out gets another thumbs up b/c this cycle is unlike previous cycles, particularly with the approval of Bitcoin ETFs and the price pump that followed. I was like, it's too early for this to be happening now! lol But it happened and the price still started to pump after the election (right on schedule). But on the flip side, Trump being in office is great news for both crypto and the economy. As people earn more, they'll invest more. And if the US starts buying BTC to put in reserves, many others nations that aren't already doing so will follow. This could cause great scarcity for Bitcoin and it's possible that we'll never see an 80% drop again. Then the saying "Never short Bitcoin" will begin to resonate in our minds to a greater degree. But even with this, I'm still 50/50. I'm not even betting the house now although I probably should. lol

So I think we're farily close to agreeing on things here... The main difference in our opinions is timing and I learned from the previous cycle that timing has been one of the most consistent metrics from all previous cycles. The price increase earlier this year does through things off a bit, but that could be chopped up as a buy the rumor, sell the news event. Either way it goes, it's gonna be interesting to see how things play out.

Appreciate the reply... Like I say, such conversations do stimulate thought and helps me to consider things that I may have otherwise never considered.
 
Look at this shitcoin:

IMG_3527.webp


You would never want to hold it, right? It looks so volatile and meaningless.
It’s called AUD. And it’s even not the worst one out there.

Btc fixes it.

IMG_3528.webp
 
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Look at this shitcoin:

View attachment 8354

You would never want to hold it, right? It looks so volatile and meaningless.
It’s called AUD. And it’s even not the worst one out there.

Btc fixes it.

View attachment 8355

LOL... Clearly, you're a btc maxi and I've noticed from numerous posts that you ask the hard questions. A great critic I must say and the perfect candidate to test out some new innovation for Bitcoin. DM me if you care to discuss.
 
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