China's Opensource Deepseek outperforms OpenAI GPT-4o

[Clank]

Ok but it doesn’t work any longer:
View attachment 8632

They seem to be under US DDoS attack:

 

[ChadMuska]

Not only biased, which means that PRC government censorship is applied

asked a question about why the internet is slow in China. It started to reply but then stopped and said it was beyond its scope.

agree at 110%.

Imagine believing and re-posting Chinese propaganda verbatim.. and talking about "lessons to the US"

Please, ask chatgtp about multiculturalism, trannies or if NSA is spying on us.

 

[uplana]

They seem to be under US DDoS attack:

View attachment 8633

Yes, it is completely unacceptable that the Chinese are once again introducing a competing product to American companies, thereby undermining their carefully devised plan to control the source of all surveillance.

DeepSeek is both better and cheaper than ChatGPT, sorry to say so.

 

[Martin Everson]

FYI The online version of Deepseek is censored around sensitive government topics as Deepseek has to comply with Chinese law. The opensource version you can download yourself and run locally and which developers are now using is not censored....try it yourself. Hence censorship is not an issue for developers building on Deepseek code around the world but they may also have to comply with their local laws on certain sensitive topics.

If you don't trust China...lol then trust your eyes as the code is fully there to view. And many data scientists and AI developers in US and globally are already using it. It is cheaper and more efficient than overpriced US equivalent. Being opensource and a very efficient design is a win for the opensource world. As an Ubuntu linux user myself I appreciate the gift over ClosedAI sorry I meant OpenAI...lol.

 

[Clank]

FYI The online version of Deepseek is censored around sensitive government topics as Deepseek has to comply with Chinese law. The opensource version you can download yourself and run locally and which developers are now using is not censored....try it yourself. Hence censorship is not an issue for developers building on Deepseek code around the world but they may also have to comply with their local laws on certain sensitive topics.

If you don't trust China...lol then trust your eyes as the code is fully there to view. And many data scientists and AI developers in US and globally are already using it. It is cheaper and more efficient than overpriced US equivalent. Being opensource and a very efficient design is a win for the opensource world. As an Ubuntu linux user myself I appreciate the gift over ClosedAI sorry I meant OpenAI...lol.

Censorship in regards to sensitive Chinese topics don’t affect me in my daily use at all.

Also I think it’s good to use DeepSeek on their website as by using it you are helping them to improve an open source model.

If you use it locally you are not contributing.

All companies will use your data for training the difference is that Open AI will never make it open source.

 

[mraleph]

Please, ask chatgtp about multiculturalism, trannies or if NSA is spying on us.

There is a matter of decency and politeness. I do not need to agree with something and to like somebody; but, I will respect.

Asked ChatGPT those questions; regrading trannies, is your concern about the output related to provided context about derogatory meaning and discrimination?

I understand the community; a Western resentment is wide present. I respect that. But, factual accuracy and context is lacking in this thread; DeepSeek is OpenAI, trained with OpenAI data and powered on Western NVIDIA hardware. So, when you praise the DeepSeek, you are praising the OpenAI's development team and their product that actually created something valuable. Think about that. As a consequence (intended by ruse), you are promoting policy of Chinese theft of foreign IP and smuggling of foreign equipment - you're not praising their original capacities (which they don't have in the first place).

You may have a negative attitude to the West, and I respect that as well. I consider(ed) this community as a meeting point of highly intelligent, educated and experienced people. But, I didn't knew that this community supports and praises theft under the guise of open source software and cheaper product or service. Hacking communities have a code about theft

No point contributing to this thread anymore; everything is out of context as the propaganda narative is being created and not a quality discussion as any factual and contextual comments are being devalued.

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

Think about that. As a consequence (intended by ruse), you are promoting policy of Chinese theft of foreign IP and smuggling of foreign equipment - you're not praising their original capacities (which they don't have in the first place).

I think the overall sentiment is that we’re pleased with the rise of highly capable open-source models, especially considering the massive progress made since GPT-3 and GPT-3.5.

When it comes to China, it’s the same as always. I don’t have to agree with them ideologically to recognize their capability, and the same applies to other nation-states. DeepSeek, like OpenAI, is scraping and repurposing other people’s work. The only difference is that OpenAI is now frustrated because DeepSeek outmaneuvered them and is stealing the spotlight.

This outcome was inevitable and predicted, it just so happens that DeepSeek is the winner at the moment. Have a look at this: https://semianalysis.com/2023/05/04/google-we-have-no-moat-and-neither/.

 

[mraleph]

I think the overall sentiment is that we’re pleased with the rise of highly capable open-source models, especially considering the massive progress made since GPT-3 and GPT-3.5.

When it comes to China, it’s the same as always. I don’t have to agree with them ideologically to recognize their capability, and the same applies to other nation-states. DeepSeek, like OpenAI, is scraping and repurposing other people’s work. The only difference is that OpenAI is now frustrated because DeepSeek outmaneuvered them and is stealing the spotlight.

This outcome was inevitable and predicted, it just so happens that DeepSeek is the winner at the moment. Have a look at this: https://semianalysis.com/2023/05/04/google-we-have-no-moat-and-neither/.

Scraping with repurposing and theft are different.

I've read that at the moment of publishing; neither then nor now, I thought it has merit - as plethora of others as well. It is a highly opinionated paper from a person that has an affinity to open source. So, it colors the topic with ideology.

If we go into AI development in this thread, it will end as crash course. Currated datasets are like vector instructions; but they don't substitute floating point unit nor a frequency. You may have an AI model on a smartphone, but it won't be capable to saturate novel data.

We may conclude that two lanes of AI development will occur; models for embedded scenarios with currated data sets for dedicated operations and AGI.

But, the thread isn't about that; it's about an ordinary Chinese theft and false narative about their success.

 

[Clank]

Scraping with repurposing and theft are different.

I've read that at the moment of publishing; neither then nor now, I thought it has merit - as plethora of others as well. It is a highly opinionated paper from a person that has an affinity to open source. So, it colors the topic with ideology.

If we go into AI development in this thread, it will end as crash course. Currated datasets are like vector instructions; but they don't substitute floating point unit nor a frequency. You may have an AI model on a smartphone, but it won't be capable to saturate novel data.

We may conclude that two lanes of AI development will occur; models for embedded scenarios with currated data sets for dedicated operations and AGI.

But, the thread isn't about that; it's about an ordinary Chinese theft and false narative about their success.

OpenAI has utilized publicly available data, including copyrighted materials from the internet, without compensation. It’s a common practice for all models.

It seems that you are simply upset and in denial about China’s advancements in AI, as they have not only improved existing models but, surpassed them. It also appears to be a degree of Sinophobia in your reactions. The reality is that the U.S. is no longer the sole leader in innovation, and the majority of global patents and technological progress now originates from China.

What DeepSeek has done benefits everyone—they have open-sourced AI for the advancement of all of us.

 

[mraleph]

OpenAI has utilized publicly available data, including copyrighted materials from the internet, without compensation. It’s a common practice for all models.

It seems that you are simply upset and in denial about China’s advancements in AI, as they have not only improved existing models but, surpassed them. It also appears to be a degree of Sinophobia in your reactions. The reality is that the U.S. is no longer the sole leader in innovation, and the majority of global patents and technological progress now originates from China.

What DeepSeek has done benefits everyone—they have open-sourced AI for the advancement of all of us.

Sinophobia? Quite frankly, what is sinophobic in establishing a fact that China has an organized theft of IP and smuggling hardware for RE? Perhaps, you don't want those facts to be mentioned anywhere?

You're promoting false narative - what is a success if all that Chinese technological progress came from the West, US in particular and Russia? Shall I praise their copycat abilities? DeepSeek is another - and proven - theft of IP. You can't possibly promote a theft under the ruse of Chinese technological progress.

Imagine yourself as a Western or Russian developer, shareholder or a stakeholder of a technological company. Some Chinese operatives steal your IP and hardware and re-label it as their technological wonder?

 

[Clank]

Sinophobia? Quite frankly, what is sinophobic in establishing a fact that China has an organized theft of IP and smuggling hardware for RE? Perhaps, you don't want those facts to be mentioned anywhere?

You're promoting false narative - what is a success if all that Chinese technological progress came from the West, US in particular and Russia? Shall I praise their copycat abilities? DeepSeek is another - and proven - theft of IP. You can't possibly promote a theft under the ruse of Chinese technological progress.

All existing AI models are trained on copyrighted material not only DeepSeek, it seems you are in denial or have no idea about how models are trained.

I’m not going to discuss facts, you can just search public data about China patents and technological progress in the latest years.

 

[mraleph]

All existing AI models are trained on copyrighted material not only DeepSeek, it seems you are in denial or have no idea about how models are trained.

I’m not going to discuss facts, you can just search public data about China patents and technological process in the latest years.

Denial? Don't know how models are trained? You provoked a smile from me. Well, this is a way how propaganda is performed - by devaluation comments.

 

[Alonzo]

Alibaba releases AI model it says surpasses DeepSeek​

https://www.reuters.com/technology/...l-it-claims-surpasses-deepseek-v3-2025-01-29/

 

[Martin Everson]

Alibaba releases AI model it says surpasses DeepSeek​

https://www.reuters.com/technology/...l-it-claims-surpasses-deepseek-v3-2025-01-29/

Lol...the Chinese ain't playing out here at all. The Chinese developers in America are losing out to their China based counterparts big time . More U.S visa's need to be issued to Chinese developers to come to America if America wants to win the AI race or its another industry in US that will die a painful death.

 

[cryptofriendly]

OpenAI has utilized publicly available data, including copyrighted materials from the internet, without compensation. It’s a common practice for all models.

It seems that you are simply upset and in denial about China’s advancements in AI, as they have not only improved existing models but, surpassed them. It also appears to be a degree of Sinophobia in your reactions. The reality is that the U.S. is no longer the sole leader in innovation, and the majority of global patents and technological progress now originates from China.

What DeepSeek has done benefits everyone—they have open-sourced AI for the advancement of all of us.

100% agree.

OpenAI was 'open' in name only, and it turned from non-profit to big profit for Altman, by integrating all over the place they created practically a monopoly (and thought control, as more and more people have been outsourcing their thinking to their AI assistant.)

DeepSeek went open source, and is available for everyone, it's on github, hugginface, in the appstore, web, everywhere. There is no censorship in the versions on github, and no one listens to it or takes notes when you use it on your own pc or server after installing. Look at OpenAI, Google, FB, etc., who all track, log, and monetize your data, and you see who is 'more evil'.

That's what technology should be, and China should be celebrated for it! One can dislike their practices or 'technology transfer', but in the case of DeepSeek, I take my hat off, and am very much obliged for their restoring of balance.

 

[Martin Everson]

Exactly some people refuse to give credit where credit is due because they are so anti-China on everything they are blinded in irrational distrust. The way OpenAI has been ripping people of with its pricing is worse then Raytheon selling one patriot missle to the US government for $4m and almost as bad as overinflated US health care costs. People are just tired of being ripped of by US corporate greed....lol.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Exactly some people refuse to give credit where credit is due because they are so anti-China on everything they are blinded in irrational distrust. The way OpenAI has been ripping people of with its pricing is worse then Raytheon selling one patriot missle to the US government for $4m and almost as bad as overinflated US health care costs. People are just tired of being ripped of by US corporate greed....lol.

Greed is good, someone said.
Neither the U.S. nor China are good. They just follow different strategies for world domination. China has been building infrastructure all over the world “for free” for a reason. Now it gifted the world with DeepSeek.
Nothing new. 2000 years ago Virgil wrote “Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes”.

 

[Martin Everson]

Neither the U.S. nor China are good.

But healthy competition is good for consumer over hegemony. It drives innovation and brings down cost to end users. If you allow monopolies to thrive you have what is America now turning into an Oligarchy.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/jan/22/is-the-united-states-turning-into-an-oligarchy-wha/

 

[JohnnyDoe]

But healthy competition is good for consumer over hegemony. It drives innovation and brings down cost to end users. If you allow monopolies to thrive you have what is America now turning into an Oligarchy.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/jan/22/is-the-united-states-turning-into-an-oligarchy-wha/

Exactly the same as Russia and China.

 

[Martin Everson]

Exactly the same as Russia and China.

The same like Russia but not quite China. China dealt with Jack Ma (Alibaba) who got ideas above his station a while back and disappeared from public view before coming back and towing the CCP line....lol.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56448688

Elon Musk will not get same treatment it seems as oligarchs and monopolies are allowed to flourish in US without the general interest of the country taken into consideration.

Anyway back to Deepseek talk.