Where would you move if you had a Family?

[JimBeam]

Unfortunately we decided to pass on Cyprus and Malta because they’re too isolated and passive for our lifestyle.

Understood, life there is quite boring.
But with big tax savings (compared to other places) and low stay requirements maybe you could use that extra money to travel and spend time abroad, while maintaining the tax residency there.

 

[menderes]

Andorra might suit you.

I was just looking into Andorra today, being in continental Europe and within driving distance from much of Spain and France makes it an enticing option.

Now we just need to convince my big city American wife to move to a goofy country in the mountains

Where does your income comes from?

I mean will you be managing a company in the new place where you move or not?

1. Consulting (non-incorporated) - 100% US clients
2. Sale of digital products (non-incorporated) - Worldwide clientele

My current setup will probably not fly in most countries as very few have a strong "sole entrepreneur" legal and practical framework, so I will probably have to incorporate somewhere as well.

Understood, life there is quite boring.
But with big tax savings (compared to other places) and low stay requirements maybe you could use that extra money to travel and spend time abroad, while maintaining the tax residency there.

I would have moved to Cyprus in a second, but I'm not the only one deciding unfortunately.

 

[scooterguy]

Now we just need to convince my big city American wife to move to a goofy country in the mountains

There are three McDonald's and one Starbucks in the capital of Andorra. That should do it .

 

[Marzio]

1. Consulting (non-incorporated) - 100% US clients
2. Sale of digital products (non-incorporated) - Worldwide clientele

My current setup will probably not fly in most countries as very few have a strong "sole entrepreneur" legal and practical framework, so I will probably have to incorporate somewhere as well.

What about moving to San Marino?

I can already see your wife telling all her friends "i'm moving to Italy bitches"

 

[menderes]

What about moving to San Marino?

I can already see your wife telling all her friends "i'm moving to Italy bitches"

^ This guy knows women!

Thanks! I will look into San Marino more seriously.

 

[Marzio]

The biggest growth region is monsoon region which includes East Africa

That's interesting, is there any reason why do you believe this will be the case for East Africa specifically?

 

[scooterguy]

What about moving to San Marino?

I can already see your wife telling all her friends "i'm moving to Italy bitches"

Actually this is better than Andorra.

More pleasant weather and you can be in Florence in a couple of hours. Being so close to one of the most beautiful cities in the world should certainly convince OP's wife.

If there's a need to incorporate in San Marino, it's not that bad either, as corporate tax is 17%.

Both Andorra and San Marino are pretty isolated in terms of international travel though. San Marino might be slightly better, but traveling abroad would almost always require a trip to a nearby city first.

 

[vehzag]

Actually this is better than Andorra.

More pleasant weather and you can be in Florence in a couple of hours. Being so close to one of the most beautiful cities in the world should certainly convince OP's wife.

If there's a need to incorporate in San Marino, it's not that bad either, as corporate tax is 17%.

Both Andorra and San Marino are pretty isolated in terms of international travel though. San Marino might be slightly better, but traveling abroad would almost always require a trip to a nearby city first.

You can have 15% corp tax in Spain living in the big city on the sea side

 

[menderes]

You can have 15% corp tax in Spain living in the big city on the sea side

And then you have to deal with the 47% personal income tax.

 

[vehzag]

And then you have to deal with the 47% personal income tax.

I don’t have to deal with it. I pay 19-28 % on the investments I do the same as for dividends

 

[menderes]

I don’t have to deal with it. I pay 19-28 % on the investments I do the same as for dividends

That is an option I have not considered. Pass a salary in the minimum threshold to maintain the residency conditions, and then get the rest as a dividend. Thanks!

 

[daniels27]

Both Andorra and San Marino are pretty isolated in terms of international travel though. San Marino might be slightly better, but traveling abroad would almost always require a trip to a nearby city first.

There is a reason why San Marino has a visa waiver agreement with China for a very long time: they gain while not giving away anything. How can you travel from China to San Marino without touching Schengen?

 

[scooterguy]

You can have 15% corp tax in Spain living in the big city on the sea side

The 15% is only for 2 years. After that you'll have to pay 25% corporate tax.

Dividends are on top of that. Capital gains tax is 19%-26%. Social security, etc. is relatively high as well.

Spain is a great place to live but you don't go there to save on taxes. You have to go there with the mindset that you'll spend a lot on taxes but you'll get your money worth (great roads, healthcare, free schools, decent air quality, etc.)

Whether you get your money worth or you can get the same things in return for free or cheaper somewhere else is a matter of personal preference.

I think Spain makes little sense if you're focusing on earning money, but can be a good place to retire or semi-retire.

 

[Marshal]

I think it's quite simple. If you like Italy and want to save on taxes you choose San Marino, if you like Spain then Andorra should obviously be your choice

 

[daniels27]

I think it's quite simple. If you like Italy and want to save on taxes you choose San Marino, if you like Spain then Andorra should obviously be your choice

Yes, or Gibraltar.

 

[Monet]

San Marino doesn't have any international schools, so it's not ideal for expat families needing such options.
Andorra has a few international schools, but choices are limited, which could be a challenge if you need a specific curriculum or there's high demand.

 

[scooterguy]

San Marino doesn't have any international schools, so it's not ideal for expat families needing such options.
Andorra has a few international schools, but choices are limited, which could be a challenge if you need a specific curriculum or there's high demand.

There's an IB school in Rimini (30 minutes away from San Marino), and a British school too.

Public schools in San Marino and Italy are pretty good though.

 

[vehzag]

The 15% is only for 2 years. After that you'll have to pay 25% corporate tax.

Dividends are on top of that. Capital gains tax is 19%-26%. Social security, etc. is relatively high as well.

Spain is a great place to live but you don't go there to save on taxes. You have to go there with the mindset that you'll spend a lot on taxes but you'll get your money worth (great roads, healthcare, free schools, decent air quality, etc.)

Whether you get your money worth or you can get the same things in return for free or cheaper somewhere else is a matter of personal preference.

I think Spain makes little sense if you're focusing on earning money, but can be a good place to retire or semi-retire.

Exactly that’s how I consider Spain. I am ready to pay taxes here. Capital gains tax is 15-28 btw
And the corporate tax is 15 for the first 2 profitable years, afterwards it can be 23 if the turnover is less than 1 mln
If more - than yes it’s 25

 

[cryptofriendly]

Thailand just announced new visa policy starting from June 1st. 5 year visa sounds interesting, finally no visa runs?

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2800891/new-visa-promotions-retiree-insurance-reduced

 

[jafo]

Thailand just announced new visa policy starting from June 1st. 5 year visa sounds interesting, finally no visa runs?

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2800891/new-visa-promotions-retiree-insurance-reduced

Wow! Thailand might have undergone a moment of genius.

Interesting to hear what @wellington's opinion is on this.

Thanks for sharing.