There's like half of population in Africa doing whatever they can to reach European shores, but some still want to move and live there permanently. Go figure.
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Where would you move if you had a Family?
- Thread starter banafinfodafuggiano
- Start date
different people have different preferences and utility functions - those who run away have no capital, seeking opportunity to survive, "rich" Europeans with capital seeking freedom and escape from being raped to support the first group - endless flow of energy in endless forms
True, but would you really consider Africa if you were really rich?
Africa is quite diverse.
Im quite ignorant on the possibilities, but Chad and Seychelles seem rather different to put them in one basket.
The latter was quite relaxed place during COVID lockdowns.
Especially when you're really rich Africa is a great bet. E.g. many people in the EU have family members from previous generations who made early investments that set their families up for life. Consider those who bought entire streets or buildings when real estate was priced at a fraction of what it is now. Parts of Africa are emerging markets. Similar opportunities might be scarce in the EU/US, but you can accomplish a lot more with your money in Africa, and I believe the long-term returns could be significant.
Plus, let's be honest, the cost of doing business there can be more manageable than in Western societies.
Some investors I know who heavily backed a specific port in East Africa for 'pennies' just recently made incredible gains. Investing strategically in the right projects across the continent could lead to the same outcome. Just for fun, look at what the Arabs and Europeans are doing within the Telco space in Africa. Big money is trying to monopolize yet another continent.
Also spending a million on a house in Switzerland or Dubai will make you only modestly wealthy, but in most parts of Africa, that same figure will get you a mansion with staff.
Africa is Africa. I agree that there are opportunities where you can quickly earn a lot of money, but you can just as fast lose it all. Remember what happened to white farmers in Zimbabwe?Especially when you're really rich Africa is a great bet. E.g. many people in the EU have family members from previous generations who made early investments that set their families up for life. Consider those who bought entire streets or buildings when real estate was priced at a fraction of what it is now. Parts of Africa are emerging markets. Similar opportunities might be scarce in the EU/US, but you can accomplish a lot more with your money in Africa, and I believe the long-term returns could be significant.
Plus, let's be honest, the cost of doing business there can be more manageable than in Western societies.
Some investors I know who heavily backed a specific port in East Africa for 'pennies' just recently made incredible gains. Investing strategically in the right projects across the continent could lead to the same outcome. Just for fun, look at what the Arabs and Europeans are doing within the Telco space in Africa. Big money is trying to monopolize yet another continent.
Also spending a million on a house in Switzerland or Dubai will make you only modestly wealthy, but in most parts of Africa, that same figure will get you a mansion with staff.
I don't want to start discussing "controversial" subjects, but Africa—the continent and its 54 countries—is NOT what you and I are worried about.
We are NOT worried about the land, the valleys, the rivers, the weather, the mountains, the soil, the beaches, and the "wild" life.
as true as it can get - it's fair to say that your point is way more general, far from exclusively AfricanWe are NOT worried about the land, the valleys, the rivers, the weather, the mountains, the soil, the beaches, and the "wild" life.
Define “really rich” - I think you understand very little about wealth.
New / fake wealth tries to appear in in specific places in specific circles.
Old wealth / matured wealth just wants to enjoy life and experiences.
Africa/Afrika for me is the place I pre covid would experience culture - whether that’s natural habitats for animals across East Africa, kite boarding off Zanzibar, or diving the Great Lakes.
For me it’s a place my temp and my mind rests.
I’ve lived and done the European, Caribbean etc lifestyle I have a home in Switzerland I’ve not visited in 4 years this year - Monaco used to be my stamping ground, I’ve routinely done the Paris to Rome to Athens to Istanbul jaunt - it’s not for me.
Africa/Afrika is a great place to spend 3 months a year or 5 months with multiple breaks - it’s a location, a culture and it can fit around a commute a tax structuring nomadic lifestyle.
Nairobi is great as you can fly into Wilson private and from Nairobi travel anywhere (international/international) easily either private or in what’s basically a private air taxi service, city has a lot going for it - laid back yet youth on the rise so innovation and entrepreneurship is everywhere - I remember being introduced to the people behind M-pesa there years ago before it took off (investment discussions) - now it’s the core of nearly all regional trade.
It’s the hub that connects south to north east
I remember when my wife first stepped in East Africa she was annoyed there was barely any malls and it was 50 yrs in her eyes behind Asia (city life).
These days she yearns for being a Bali beach bum for a long weekend, climbing Mt Kilimanjaro, observing the starlight over the Savanah, skiing down the slopes at Grindelwald etc
I never hear her mentioning Paris, Milan, Rome, etc these days and she’s content with the idea of trying to appear “un noticeable” attire wise against the backstreet of the environment she is in.
In a nut shell - we’ve lived and done the stuff most dream off but after a while it becomes nothing more than a distraction or a burden.
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Back on topic.
With Portugal sunsetting the NHR tax regime, my plans kind of crumbled and I do not know where to move my family.
Requirements:
- At most 20% taxes with no solidarity/wealth/one-off-tax-theft fuckery. Even 30-40% is acceptable if there's any semblance of a functioning society and social services.
- Pleasant and human friendly weather (No Russia/Poland/Dubai), sea / beaches are a plus
- Good education (No Balkan countries, I can't imagine sending my kids to school here)
- Reasonable safety
- I do not care about the quality of women and/or percentage of white people as I'm not an insecure anglo-goblin passport bro.
Portugal with the NHR regime checked all the boxes for me, but now I can't imagine paying 48%+ in taxes on my hard earned money, if there are any shenanigans for Portugal post-NHR let me know please.
With Portugal sunsetting the NHR tax regime, my plans kind of crumbled and I do not know where to move my family.
Requirements:
- At most 20% taxes with no solidarity/wealth/one-off-tax-theft fuckery. Even 30-40% is acceptable if there's any semblance of a functioning society and social services.
- Pleasant and human friendly weather (No Russia/Poland/Dubai), sea / beaches are a plus
- Good education (No Balkan countries, I can't imagine sending my kids to school here)
- Reasonable safety
- I do not care about the quality of women and/or percentage of white people as I'm not an insecure anglo-goblin passport bro.
Portugal with the NHR regime checked all the boxes for me, but now I can't imagine paying 48%+ in taxes on my hard earned money, if there are any shenanigans for Portugal post-NHR let me know please.
I don't know if "old money" is the right way to justify moving to Africa, I never hear about any Rockefellers moving to Nairobi...
Personally I would pick something like Andorra or Switzerland, European standards without the tax hell.
1) I never mentioned moving to NairobiI don't know if "old money" is the right way to justify moving to Africa, I never hear about any Rockefellers moving to Nairobi...
Personally I would pick something like Andorra or Switzerland, European standards without the tax hell.
2) I mentioned having Nairobi as one place as a base which is on my annual circuit anyway.
3) I wouldn’t know what old money is I guess the oldest thing I have would be a royal charter signed by King George III for GGG etc grandfather - possibly old -‘not sure about money’.
4) I have a home in Suisse I haven’t visited since 2020 - great for skiing dull otherwise.
5) Switzerland is tied to Europe - Europe is like a dying person that refuses to die but would do better if dragged behind the barn and put out of its misery.
6) The biggest growth region is monsoon region which includes East Africa for the next 20+ yrs during which Europe will be under fiscal strain from demographic collapse, energy collapse, brain drain, wars, and economic collapse - plan where you need to be not where you want to be - one it goes full blow socialist/communist, 2 it implodes - not exactly the place to live or have assets.
If you enjoy Africa then more power to you, I just don't see what the appeal would be if budgeting isn't a concern and not a place I would feel safe raising kids in.
Sure they are tied to Europe geographically but they're not EU members so their hands aren't tied in the same way.
If you don't mind living on the island - Cyprus could be an option. If you buy a EUR 300k property you and your family will get permanent residency. After 7 years you can apply for citizenship/passport. Taxes are amongst the lowest in Europe and under non-dom you're exempt from most of the taxes for the next 17 years. Good weather all year long, good beaches, mountains (even possible to ski in the winter). Education is the weakest point but there are private British schools that should be fairly okay.
My thoughts exactly. It proves once again that we are all here very different and desire different things. For some Africa is great and that's absolutely fine.
Unfortunately we decided to pass on Cyprus and Malta because they’re too isolated and passive for our lifestyle.
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