USA Bank account for BVI company

[Piri Erts]

actually, it looks like USA would be the only one offshore jurisdiction in 5-10 years

Indeed...but some other "experts" seem to see it differently!

 

[Martin Everson]

So having a bank account in the USA "connects" one to the USA? Wow...what other nuggets do you have for the forum?

So you have no connection to the US with a US bank account there. Perhaps you should define what you understand as connection to the US.

And please elaborate on your OPINION that a USA bank account is worse than a OECD/G7-1 for an offshore company, which we will assume is USD based? I have listed my OPINION as to why USA bank account is superior so don't leave us in suspense and share your wisdom!

Your opinion is below:

Otherwise, the USD banking system is equally efficient (ACH transfers are free at almost every bank...used for bill pay and to move money) and vastly superior customer service. Many banks also have free USD wire transfers...and if there is a charge the HIGHEST you will pay is $50 to move money within Fed wire system. Also, if you need to move another currency via SWIFT, the charges are much less if not free depending on bank and balance. This can not be said of the inefficient EUR banks that charge high fees if not a % of the transfer. For example, one can get completely free international transfers at Chase with personal account with about $100k in it. Try that at a non -USA bank...will never happen. Also, for those who can get a USA credit card that issues points or rebates cash, one can use it for purchases and end up getting a BETTER exchange rate than the interbank rate given the rebate or points assigned. Also, can dispute any charge and usually get a full credit. Get free insurance on rental cars. Trip delay insurance, extended warranty coverage, etc.

I can send SEPA payments is realtime and free. I literally hit send and money is in my other euro account at another bank across Europe instantly. Perhaps you never experienced it before and dealt with old European banks. Customer service is subjective and is bank and culturally specific. High wires I am not sure where you bank in Europe but I never have that issue. So you have a coop type points card for your bank UBS had this over 15 years ago called Key Card club points, other European banks have the same nonsense. i.e free insurance, VIP lounge at airport, free travel insurance etc etc.

Look your stretching. Nothing you say is in anyway superior to any bank in Europe....lol.

 

[Piri Erts]

Care to post specifics? For example, how much do you pay for a SWIFT transfer of USD or EUR 100k? Is it a flat or variable charge? What bank do you use and can we verify it online with a fee disclosure?

For USA banks, forum members look here:

Wire Transfers: What Banks Charge - NerdWallet

 

[Piri Erts]

As to your point:

So you have a coop type points card for your bank UBS had this over 15 years ago called Key Card club points, other European banks have the same nonsense. i.e free insurance, VIP lounge at airport, free travel insurance etc etc.

Sure, Euro banks have the perks. But how much do they cost?? Google "Chase Sapphire Reserve" and show me any European card that comes close at similar cost. Again, specifics add value to the forum so please provide as I am.

Europeans have BMW and Mercedes, but they pay a lot more than American do for the same car!

 

[void]

There is no real risk relative to any other legitimate bank in any OECD/G7 country. Unless you have something to hide or other strange circumstance, that perhaps some tiny, obscure bank will ignore, at YOUR OWN peril of course!

Not sure if "risk" means the same for both of us here.
I don't want to get involved in any way with US government and other authorities and wan't to avoid reporting to my home country.
My goal is privacy and protection of the clear money, no tax evasion nor money laundering.
Will personal US bank account provide this?

 

[Banker89]

Definitely, concept of risk is different for different people, so is concept of service. Each to his own. In most countries the more money you deposit the better service you get. In USA and Europe there is no difference here. I believe the technology of banking is better in Europe. SEPA is a new system that is only a few years old, while ACH in US is based on the same system they used 50 years ago to clear paper checks.

USA definitely is taking on the role of the world's offshore center. USA banks are actively using non-reporting as a selling point. But at some point I think they might just keep all the money. Sure, now it is easier to wire money in and out of the USA than it is most other places because they don't do any serious AML checks. But what if in a few years they introduce checks and wake up and accuse everyone of money laundering? And they will be right because that is just the kind of business they are attracting with the non-reporting stance. Short term for pass-thru there is little risk, but I would not keep my retirement savings in the US.

 

[Piri Erts]

Not sure if "risk" means the same for both of us here.
I don't want to get involved in any way with US government and other authorities and wan't to avoid reporting to my home country.
My goal is privacy and protection of the clear money, no tax evasion nor money laundering.
Will personal US bank account provide this?

What the USA reports depends on the FATCA IGA agreement the USA has with the country you tell your USA bank you are resident for tax purposes. Look here:

Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)

And here is the key quote from Article 2, section 1 of the Model 1 IGA agreement:

Subject to the provisions of Article 3 of this Agreement, each Party shall obtain the information specified in paragraph 2 of this Article with respect to all Reportable Accounts and shall annually exchange this information with the other Party on an automatic basis pursuant to the provisions of Article 27 of the Convention.

Given that USA has signed/is signing agreements with almost all countries in world, you won't necessarily have better privacy in a USA bank relative to a G6 country which has their own CRS exchange of information. Thus, if you are looking for privacy you need 1) a USA bank and tax residency in a country that has no FATCA agreement signed or 2) a CRS country bank and a tax residency in a non-CRS country or 3)non FATCA and non CRS bank regardless of where you live.

So bottom line, as to privacy you will not find many "major" and internationally recognized banks that will offer you any if you live in most countries.

Not wanting to get involved with US government is your choice, but if you think any other major country (where you have bank account) will treat you better as a non-resident/non-citizen you are mistaken. You can have your bank account in some small/obscure country but it is my opinion you are taking a much greater risk to your wealth than having in a USA or European bank. So given your aversion to US government, it would then make sense to have your bank account in a major European bank. That is not a bad choice but you have no more privacy than a USA bank and are most likely paying higher fees.

So to achiever your goal you better fall in one of the 3 categories I posted above.

 

[Piri Erts]

Definitely, concept of risk is different for different people, so is concept of service. Each to his own. In most countries the more money you deposit the better service you get. In USA and Europe there is no difference here. I believe the technology of banking is better in Europe. SEPA is a new system that is only a few years old, while ACH in US is based on the same system they used 50 years ago to clear paper checks.

USA definitely is taking on the role of the world's offshore center. USA banks are actively using non-reporting as a selling point. But at some point I think they might just keep all the money. Sure, now it is easier to wire money in and out of the USA than it is most other places because they don't do any serious AML checks. But what if in a few years they introduce checks and wake up and accuse everyone of money laundering? And they will be right because that is just the kind of business they are attracting with the non-reporting stance. Short term for pass-thru there is little risk, but I would not keep my retirement savings in the US.

I think the US offshore loophole is more related to what the IRS actually reports to those who sign FATCA agreements. See this quote:

IRS Launches International Data Exchange Service FATCA | Internal Revenue Service

Where a jurisdiction has a reciprocal IGA and the jurisdiction has the necessary safeguards and infrastructure in place, the IRS will also use IDES to provide similar information to the host country tax authority on accounts in U.S. financial institutions held by the jurisdiction’s residents.

Lots of wiggle room here. Also, see here for countries that DEFINITELY already receive direct information from IRS as per signed FATCA agreement:

IRS Begins Sending Individual Account Information to Foreign Countries

Countries eligible to receive information from the IRS about their taxpayers’ U.S. accounts:

• Australia
• Brazil
• Canada
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Gibraltar
• Guernsey
• Hungary
• Iceland
• India
• Ireland
• Isle of Man
• Italy
• Jersey
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithuania
• Luxembourg
• Malta
• Mauritius
• Mexico
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Poland
• Slovenia
• South Africa
• Spain
• Sweden
• United Kingdom

Given it is becoming VERY difficult to hide from the tax man ANYWHERE in the world, best to set-up your affairs to LEGALLY minimize your tax obligations. If not, find a country of residence that is NOT part of FATCA or CRS.

Anyone have ideas????

 

[Piri Erts]

And here are the participants in CRS:

CRS by jurisdiction - Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

 

[Martin Everson]

Care to post specifics? For example, how much do you pay for a SWIFT transfer of USD or EUR 100k? Is it a flat or variable charge? What bank do you use and can we verify it online with a fee disclosure?

Missed your response....UBS Bank (see link below).

0.30chf for EUR SEPA payments which is expensive as other banks give it for free...lol
10chf for USD SWIFT or 30CHF to cover UBS fees and all intermediary bank fees.

So the highest you pay for any wire is 30chf inclusive of intermediary/third-party bank fees.

Prices and third-party charges

Look it is a bad idea to bank in US.....don't do it.

 

[Piri Erts]

Missed your response....UBS Bank (see link below).

0.30chf for EUR SEPA payments which is expensive as other banks give it for free...lol
10chf for USD SWIFT or 30CHF to cover UBS fees and all intermediary bank fees.

So the highest you pay for any wire is 30chf inclusive of intermediary/third-party bank fees.

Prices and third-party charges

Look it is a bad idea to bank in US.....don't do it.

Nice try, but convenient of you to leave out the TOTAL cost of the account to access such a rate for said transfers:


Traditional: paper-based bank documents and/or credit/prepaid card statements
– CHF 15 with total assets of at least CHF 10,000 held with UBS or with a building
fi nancing/mortgage from UBS
– Otherwise CHF 20

Individual: Banking package for single persons

That is FOR CHF only. For EUR account, must pay another CHF 5 per month.

So you need to pay CHF 240/year AND keep CHF 10k in the account. Compare to USA bank were you can access everything UBS account give you for $2500 minimum deposit and ZERO monthly cost:

Checking Account With Interest & No ATM Fees | TD Premier Checking

Also, incoming wires free and outgoing are $25 domestic/$40 international. And they will PAY YOU $300 to open account!

In addition, one can use the ATM/debit card anywhere in the world with no fees as any fee will be reimbursed. Also, there is no foreign transaction fee for using the card outside the United States. The forex exchange rate is set by VISA. Is this the case with the UBS card? Of course not:

ATMs and counters of other banks:
• In Switzerland in CHF: CHF 2 per withdrawal
• In Switzerland in EUR: 1% of the amount, at least EUR 3.50, UBS foreign exchange sell rate
• Abroad, in the applicable local currency: CHF 5 per withdrawal, UBS foreign exchange sell rate

And the fx rate is set by UBS, not by Visa. Want to be it is much WORSE than Visa rate? Thus add even more to total cost of account if you spend outside of your home currency.

So bottom line is that banking via USA bank will almost ALWAYS be cheaper for the typical customer when TOTAL fees are examined. There is no doubt that UBS is a top bank and will meet the needs of almost any client, but there is NO WAY it will provide such services at a cheaper rate than an American bank. Note that TD Bank is a Canadian bank with a very large presence in the United States. There are many other USA banks that can offer a similar package at a similar price.

Of course, this discussion is about accounts for relatively small balances, and does not include any type of private banking accounts.

Your aversion to USA banks is your opinion and right, but in no way can you make a blanket statement that they should be avoided. And the reality is that if the USA wants information on ANY account in the world, they will get it. So having your account in Switzerland at UBS provides you zero protection against an inquiry form authorities in the USA. To think otherwise is rather naive.

 

[Piri Erts]

Missed using UBS debit card outside Switzerland...another 1% fee and fx markup by UBS!

1% of the amount, at least CHF 1.50, UBS foreign exchange sell rate
The exchange rate includes a surcharge. This can be consulted at ubs.com/cards when using the UBS exchange rate and
requested from customer service.

 

[Martin Everson]

I answered your question directly about low wire fees and proved you wrong. Then as soon as you get proven wrong you move the conversation along into another area and have completely gone of on a tangent. You moved the conversation to Debit cards, FX, ATM's minimum deposits and even Swiss banking secrecy...lol. None of which I had to address in your question that I quoted when I responded.

We could be here all day going round in circles. I guess UBS customers only use UBS cards ;-) I guess they never use foreign currency free debit card given free by some European EMI's or use any other card or FX service...lol.

Your making the thread funny by being proven wrong and then shifting the argument. I know I will never win in such a situation as it is impossible to make you see any sense...lol.

btw. Opening an account in the US is a bad idea and don't do it.

 

[Piri Erts]

Actually, you HIJACKED this thread to spew your nonsense about USA banks. Were you personally burned by a USA bank?

I have not been proven wrong in the least. Your wire fees are NOT cheaper when to access them you must spend CHF 240/year and have a CHF 10k minimum on deposit. Funny how you just ignore this FACT.

My point is that USA banks deliver superior services at a lower overall cost then any European bank that I am aware of. Indeed, I continue to post useful information for anyone who wants to pursue a USA bank opening. You provide a link to wire fees on an account that would cost over EUR 500 for typical client. Indeed, just to have it you need to spend CHF 240 plus have CHF 10k on deposit. Does that sound like a good deal to anyone relative to what I posted? But you can not refute what I posted so post nonsense.

The thread is about a USA bank account for a BVI company. I don't care what your opinion is about USA banks. Go start your own thread about the evils of USA banking and how great it is to bank in Europe. I'm sure the forum will be very informed by your lecture on the evils of a USA bank account. From the guy who seems to endorse UBS, the bank which threw thousands of their own clients under the bus and gave up their information to USA authorities. Really, your stance could not be more ironic.

 

[Martin Everson]

Your wire fees are NOT cheaper when to access them you must spend CHF 240/year and have a CHF 10k minimum on deposit.

I am totally shocked. Someone choosing to open an account at the biggest bank in Switzerland has to have at least 10k and spend 240CHF a year. How unacceptable is that....lol.

Perhaps you should aim your thread at people with no money but have enough cash to spend on ticket to US, hotel room and BVI company setup but don't want to spend 250 chf a year or have 10k.

For those of you living in 2004 and not 2018 and STILL want a BVI company in 2018 then the sales man for US banks wins :-(

 

[Piri Erts]

So at least you concede that the expense is real, though perhaps not "unacceptable" given it is the biggest bank in Switzerland. Bravo!

Have you bothered to read the threads on this forum? Does it appear to you that the typical poster is looking at UBS for an account? If it were easy to open an account at UBS with a relatively small deposit for an offshore company I have no doubt everyone would and NOT discuss obscure banks in non-G7 countries. For the only reason it makes any sense to open an account OUTSIDE G7 is because you can not get an account at G7 bank. Any bank that is not participant in FATCA/CRS will only lead to operational problems. And what makes you think everyone is resident in Europe to visit a bank there? So travel is not relevant as in either case one visits Europe or USA if they are from outside either continent. No large G7 bank will open an account with out a personal visit these days, particularly for an offshore company.

So keep spinning. For a legitimate structure/company that can bank in either the USA or Europe, there is no comparison: the USA will always be cheaper and provide better service. That is why I started this thread: looking for a USA bank account, not Europe. So stop spamming the thread. If you can provide a full service/low cost bank for an offhshore company (relative to USA bank examples I gave for PERSONAL account; fees for a USA company account are always a bit higher) in Europe then please provide name. I will be the first to open account there with my meager deposit. You have not yet which only proves my point. I can not find a USA bank which will open an account for an offshore company with a small deposit (say less than USD 100k). Of course with millions it is easy to open an account anywhere, but then one wouldn't be reading this forum, would they?

Now please go start a new thread about great European banks to utilize in order to avoid dangerous USA banks.....cost being no object since one is safe from the evil/dangerous USA banking system, to which you have still not given any evidence that this may be the case.

 

[Martin Everson]

I honestly think your a very strange individual who does not like being proven wrong. Facts don't seem to matter to you so I agree to differ.

 

[LucyOffshore]

For those of you living in 2004 and not 2018 and STILL want a BVI company in 2018 then the sales man for US banks wins :-(

Something wrong with BVI that I don't know?

 

[Banker89]

BVI is a great jurisdiction for people looking for respectability (easier to open bank accounts maybe). It is too expensive and compliance-intensive for smaller businesses that just need a regular IBC.

 

[Martin Everson]

Something wrong with BVI that I don't know?

BVI's are tax transparent if place of significant control is not in BVI. The place of operation of a BVI is deemed to be the location of the directors or place of significant control hence the tax liability falls away from BVI. They are ineffective in 2018. I am in middle of a tax case with a client over his daft understanding of how to use a BVI - he has zero chance of winning against this government.

Also BVI's will no longer be private solution:

'Dirty money': U-turn as Tories back plans to make tax havens transparent

However is privacy and tax is not your concern then use a BVI in 2018