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The future of Bitcoin and crytocurrencies

#41
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See this highlighted screenshot from Blackrock's video.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1869132349465829799

media_GfGVzMsW4AAn0CT.webp


Also on the SEC website:
“Although many observers believe this is unlikely at present, there is no guarantee that the current 21 million supply cap for outstanding bitcoin, which is estimated to be reached by approximately the year 2140, will not be changed. If a hard fork changing the 21 million supply cap is widely adopted, the limit on the supply of bitcoin could be lifted, which could have an adverse impact on the value of bitcoin.”

-BlackRock
Click to expand...
Source - Scroll to P.22: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1980994/000143774924025254/bit20240805_424b3.htm

Regardless, the underlying problem still remains:

21 Million of nothing = Nothing.

Bitcoin is backed up by: Nothing.

So 21 Million Bitcoins = Nothing.

The only thing keeping it going is usage. When it is no longer used or something else comes along, BTC goes to zero. BTC isn't the best technical coin, it was just the first. This is the danger of speculating on cryptos. There is not one stock on any stock market that has zero intrinsic value like this. The people should have used it as a currency. It would still have faced the wrath of government power grabs, but at least the dollar-worth of the BTC is not up in the air with a long way down.
 
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#42
void said:
I posted this once or twice.... why not again

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2jAZ0x9H0bRvoNt1xNJWYa9_8_an03h0


it's essential to watch both these series and then continue this discussion... or not
Click to expand...
These are worth posting again and again. Hopefully more people will watch them with open mind. (actually, form a selfish perspective i dont care. ;) )

The problem with discussions / debates / arguments is that sides become defensive and try to dig in deeper to prove the point. That makes understanding much more difficult, if not impossible.
 
#43
cherry said:
Regardless, the underlying problem still remains:

21 Million of nothing = Nothing.

Bitcoin is backed up by: Nothing.

So 21 Million Bitcoins = Nothing.

The only thing keeping it going is usage. When it is no longer used or something else comes along, BTC goes to zero. BTC isn't the best technical coin, it was just the first. This is the danger of speculating on cryptos. There is not one stock on any stock market that has zero intrinsic value like this. The people should have used it as a currency. It would still have faced the wrath of government power grabs, but at least the dollar-worth of the BTC is not up in the air with a long way down.
Click to expand...
This is not a bug, it is a feature. Real money should be nothing else than money.
 
#44
W Fish said:
I tend to NOT attribute this to beliefs. I would rather like to think that it is about understanding.
It took me too probably like 3 approaches before i started to understand a little about the economic side of BTC although I have studied economics in uni. The first two times I turned away because I thought that is has no use. ;)
Click to expand...
Why did you think that it has no use?
 
#45
daniels27 said:
Why did you think that it has no use?
Click to expand...
Something along the lines that we already have totally OK money that is mostly electronic, moves fast enough, etc.
I did not see inflation / debasement as the main problem that BTC solves. Also CBDC-s were not a thing back then, I was much younger and turning money around much faster, had not much to store ... Banking was totally different ....
In general - world was less fu***d (imho).
:)

probably dont remember all the reasons any more. some of the contraarguments posted ring a bell ... ;)
 
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#49
The reason the 'traditional' powers are trying to control BTC is simple: they don’t control it.

Bitcoin is THE ASSET to hold, and XMR is THE CURRENCY to transact in. Together, they form one of the most censorship-resistant setups available, especially if you avoid exchanges entirely.

Seeing BTC as a CBDC/FIAT competitor is like seeing gold as a competitor to Monopoly money: one is a timeless store of value, the other is just a game for those making up the rules.
 
#50
0xDEADBEEF said:
The reason the 'traditional' powers are trying to control BTC is simple: they don’t control it.

Bitcoin is THE ASSET to hold, and XMR is THE CURRENCY to transact in. Together, they form one of the most censorship-resistant setups available, especially if you avoid exchanges entirely.

Seeing BTC as a CBDC/FIAT competitor is like seeing gold as a competitor to Monopoly money: one is a timeless store of value, the other is just a game for those making up the rules.
Click to expand...
How can BTC be an asset if its only value is the fact people are using it for now, until they stop? BTC and XMR are both currencies. BTC has no underlying value let alone a timeless value. It is not even the best coin on a technical level, it was just the first. Many coins are technically superior to BTC. Gold/silver is the asset to hold, XMR is the currency to transact in. Ideally, physical silver for cash, with XMR as a supplement for digital transactions.

And XMR too is not backed by anything but a code the governments cannot break, which I suppose does have value.
 
#52
cherry said:
a natural bottom.
Click to expand...
Ah yes the story that price of commodities can’t go below production cost.
What about crude oil going sub-zero then? It was April 2020, and the ATL reached -38$. This means that sellers were paying buyers $38 to take one barrel of crude.
 
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#53
Don't get me wrong but people here clearly have no understanding of the tech on bitcoin and the global monetary system change.

First of all Bitcoin proofed its resistant against tyrans ?Is this a joke or what ?
Bitcoin is so easy to be taken over by governments it amazes me how stupid people act.Sorry i can't use other decent words.I was a leader of a REAL decentralized project which was even in CMC top 5 from 2014 till 2018 and i can tell you bitcoin is a shitcoin.Its build like a ponzi on purpose.
It can be so easily destroyed its just frightening people like on this forum are still defending it.
Governments had MANY opportunities to destroy or at least harm massivly bitcoin.They never did anything other then verbal attacks.
Did you ever researched yourself what to ANY other alternative currency in the world in the past happened and what kind of instant resources governments used to destroy it ?
It amazes me you don't ask yourself if they were even able to use so much resources to destroy even the smallest projects why they did nothing on bitcoin/crypto.
Claiming bitcoin could not be stopped is simply stupid.I would have known 1000 points where i could have attacked bitcoin and destroyed it.
FBI reports show they were able already in 2010 to identify 98% of all bitcoin transactions and suggested to close the 2% gap using 3rd parties to enforce KYC.Today we have 2025 and what happened ?Do we have KYC to close the 2% gap ?
You guys even are aware how secret services are monitoring crypto transactions ?I doubt so because else you would never make the stupid claim that these transactions are tyran resistanat.That would be so easily to block but the problem is you guys don't even understand how internet works in reality and what security functions they have already implemented.

More important in the "elites" group they are openly talking about 2 monetory system changes for many years already.
The first one will fail and the second one will be based on SDR from IMF and linked to gold.
Ohh and by coincidence they are now adding in western countries a bitcoin reserve and sell their gold.
And of course the governmental agancies data that mainly western countries will feel the downfall of economy and currency value is also just a coincidence.

All these coincidences........Yeah right but you guys know better even not understanding the tech behind it when reading your nonsense claims about bitcoin.
Sorry to be so hursh but when reading always the same nonsense people spread all over the internet not even understanding how easily the code of bitcoin can be changed and even the supply amount it just makes me furious.

Joe posting chart of bitcoin.I can bet with you gold will from today outperform bitcoin and you know why ?
Because i understand the final monetary system where all gold in the world needs to equal all M3.Now compare that to the bitcoin s**t chart you posted


Ah yes the story that price of commodities can’t go below production cost.
What about crude oil going sub-zero then? It was April 2020, and the ATL reached -38$. This means that sellers were paying buyers $38 to take one barrel of crude.
Click to expand...
For how long ?Heh ?
And who bought themself in to major oil companies at that time ?The elites who are still accumulating oil company stocks ?
Guess why they are doing it ?Or better guess for what event they are accumulating oil company stocks
 
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#54
cherry said:
See this highlighted screenshot from Blackrock's video.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1869132349465829799

View attachment 8473

Also on the SEC website:

Source - Scroll to P.22: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1980994/000143774924025254/bit20240805_424b3.htm

Regardless, the underlying problem still remains:

21 Million of nothing = Nothing.

Bitcoin is backed up by: Nothing.

So 21 Million Bitcoins = Nothing.

The only thing keeping it going is usage. When it is no longer used or something else comes along, BTC goes to zero. BTC isn't the best technical coin, it was just the first. This is the danger of speculating on cryptos. There is not one stock on any stock market that has zero intrinsic value like this. The people should have used it as a currency. It would still have faced the wrath of government power grabs, but at least the dollar-worth of the BTC is not up in the air with a long way down.
Click to expand...
theres no guarantee because in legalese there is nothing which prohibits this at all, there is not even a prospectus.
But knowing the process its highly unlikely.
 
#55
run said:
I was a leader of a REAL decentralized project which was even in CMC top 5 from 2014 till 2018
Click to expand...
Why did this project fail? What can we learn from its failure? (In addition to the fact that failure can leave a bad taste in your mouth).
 
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#56
JackAlabama said:
theres no guarantee because in legalese there is nothing which prohibits this at all, there is not even a prospectus.
But knowing the process its highly unlikely.
Click to expand...
Of course, they can change the 21M capt any time. But it would be a hard fork. And then we have BTC and BTH (or whatever you want to call it). In the end it does dilute BTC but in the same way a dog coin does. Hence, it comes down to the question of credibility of BTC and I think there are currently clear indications that there is not much competition (in the worst case, you hold two coins).
 
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#58
JackAlabama said:
theres no guarantee because in legalese there is nothing which prohibits this at all, there is not even a prospectus.
But knowing the process its highly unlikely.
Click to expand...
If you have ever dealt with the SEC you know why you need to write such nonsense on your prospectus rof/%
The SEC is just another zoo specialized in monkeys: feed the primates with good bananas and they will be happy.
 
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#59
JohnnyDoe said:
Why did this project fail? What can we learn from its failure? (In addition to the fact that failure can leave a bad taste in your mouth).
Click to expand...
It was REAL decentralized and there were fights between big investor groups.One major chinese group trying to take advantage by controling majority of coins.
Another group from US trying to get their fingers on the reserve fund to finance their own project by controling most voting power
Third group greedy programers who charged like "google pay" (according to chinese) who got already in 2014 $200 per hour even when having fullltime work load.
In general many diffrent kind of groups trying to install diffrent kind of power controls to benefit because of it.
In the end a few scammer programers who have been kicked by the comomunity and an active chinese lead programer from china took over control over the project releasing a hidden malcious code in an offical update making the community voting basicly irrelevant and giving all the power to the scammer programer.
He instantly changed control over all nodes to his friends.
Once this happened he attacked his enemies destroying their assets on the blockchain and when other people saw it they instantly moved their assets out of the blockchain asap.

But what i can tell is hiding hidden code into blockchain code is very hard to find.We spend millions on programers ,auditing etc and even big exchanges audited our code like Binance,Huobi etc and noone found that one of the major programer stole somewhere in 2016-2017 10% of the reserve funds.
The hidden code was found by accident in 2021 when working on an update of a specific feature.

Also what i can tell since our project was really decentralized it was ONLY supported by old hardcore crypto enthusiats who focused on the value they had in the beginning but was very often ignored by the establishment since it really had no control functions.

So all these big crypto media,influencers etc are all after the money and don't really care about decentralization and we all know money flows from the big institutions.
Also real decentralized projects are getting attacked when they receive a specific size.


SEC is no problem at all.You pay $400k to the chamber of the SEC guy and they will write you an offical letter which will keep you the SEC away


Of course, they can change the 10M capt any time. But it would be a hard fork. And then we have BTC and BTH (or whatever you want to call it). In the end it does dilute BTC but in the same way a dog coin does. Hence, it comes down to the question of credibility of BTC and I think there are currently clear indications that there is not much competition (in the worst case, you hold two coins).
Click to expand...
Why hardfork ?A softfork is enough .
Worst you will have both tokens ?
Oh god you clearly don't understand how crypto works.
If i softfork your blockchain add an additional 50% of total coins and dump it on the market the value of both tokens from you will be near ZERO but hey you still will have both token worth nothing
 
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#60
run said:
Why hardfork ?A softfork is enough .
Worst you will have both tokens ?
Oh god you clearly don't understand how crypto works.
If i softfork your blockchain add an additional 50% of total coins and dump it on the market the value of both tokens from you will be near ZERO
Click to expand...
Why so aggressive?

What I mean is that it is very, very unlikely that the majority of bitcoin miners will agree to an increase of the cap as their current coins will devaluate. Hence, they will keep mining on the original blockchain. Hence only a hard fork is possible. You then have BTC and BTH.
 
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