Thailand new change - world wide income at Thai tax levels to be taxed

[wellington]

any good reason you never switched to the LTR wealthy visa?

I have elite visa, it hasn't expired.

I also have kids, and a wife, so could transfer to that, i chose elite as i didn't have to deal with immigration, but as the years have passed i increasingly have to deal with immigration....

In future due to tax reasons and education it wouldn't make sense to renew it and just use visa on entry, as I'll be dancing between Asia and Africa, kids in school in Singapore, me spending their holidays in Kenya / Zanzibar (Tanzania) and fly-ins / outs for Thailand.

 

[toums]

I have elite visa, it hasn't expired.

I also have kids, and a wife, so could transfer to that, i chose elite as i didn't have to deal with immigration, but as the years have passed i increasingly have to deal with immigration....

In future due to tax reasons and education it wouldn't make sense to renew it and just use visa on entry, as I'll be dancing between Asia and Africa, kids in school in Singapore, me spending their holidays in Kenya / Zanzibar (Tanzania) and fly-ins / outs for Thailand.

Yes I remember you talked about your elite visa (after your investor visa). I Just made this suggestion as It could solve legally the tax free (remitted or not) under this visa.. IF thailand change the law in the future for worldwide taxation, even not remitted income...

For now i am using the DTV as very cheap and at the end there is almost no chance i spend more than 90days straight in TH within a year (so not have to deal with 90days report, or worse case 1 time a year).

 

[wellington]

Yes I remember you talked about your elite visa (after your investor visa). I Just made this suggestion as It could solve legally the tax free (remitted or not) under this visa.. IF thailand change the law in the future for worldwide taxation, even not remitted income...

For now i am using the DTV as very cheap and at the end there is almost no chance i spend more than 90days straight in TH within a year (so not have to deal with 90days report, or worse case 1 time a year).

Tax for me isn't a issue, as principle(s) are already grandfathered in (more than i could reasonably spend living in Thailand to the day i die) court case(s) already mentioned the sum(s) so that alongside account(s) would safeguard claims.

All the time they don't charge tax on non-remitted income that is (dividends).

BUT to have a less annoying life, better to pay some tax i believe.

 

[DCble]

Back to the main topic. How many % you would put this can be voted for the 2025 or 2026 tax year. And enforced?

50/50 that it'll be voted on in 2025 and come in Jan 2026

It will come in, just a matter of when.

 

[uplana]

BUT to have a less annoying life, better to pay some tax i believe.

No one should be afraid of paying taxes, it's just about to pay as less as possible.

 

[wellington]

No one should be afraid of paying taxes, it's just about to pay as less as possible.

My response is in line if even no taxes are owed, just because of how Thailand operates.

 

[DCble]

BUT to have a less annoying life, better to pay some tax i believe.

I thought that, but getting a tax residency elsewhere to pay some tax caused more issues for me.

I feel like I would have been better off not staying anywhere for 180+ days and being a tax resident of nowhere.

 

[toums]

So to summarize for now the situation, IF Thailand gvt vote and enforce the worldwide taxation, even not remitted :

1) Staying always 179days or less per calendar year in TH and not being tax resident there. But still not solve properly for another ‘real’ tax residency somewhere (90days in UAE / 60 days Cyprus / keeping Portuguese NHR…?)

2)Opting for the LTR wealthy visa (for the one can prove they have 1M$+ in liquid asset + 80K$ income/passive income in the last two years) AND invest 500K€+ (20M baht) in TH.. (real estate included). This is granted you (for now) tax free of foreign income even remitted, anytime

3)Staying 1 particular year 179days or less in TH and remit any amount of money from abroad free of tax in TH, the same year. But as @wellington said, it doesn’t really help people who has monthly/ regularly income/salary if they tax worldwide and you live in TH the next years for 180days+..

But for this 3) we still have to know which type of income they would tax if worldwide tax (salary, dividends, interests, capital gain from outside thailand too??)

EDIT : 4) Hypothetically, they will give (soon?) a tax advantage of PRIVILEGE visa, for example no tax for money not remitted in TH EVEN if worldwide taxation.. otherwise, as many times discussed, the PRIVILEGE worth nothing anymore actually (with the DTV also for 5years, for 100x cheaper price). Asking people to pay 900K for 5 years, so 5K$ a year as 'flat tax', similar of Malta, would make more sense and more clear. and probably attract in the future more people to pay for the PRIVILEGE (if worldwide taxation enforced).

 

[DCble]

Can't see the privilege getting special tax treatment, that's owned by the tourism department and would eat into the LTR visa market which the thai gov consider much more important.

More likely to see changes to the LTR visa types if they push forward with worldwide taxation imo.

 

[wellington]

would eat into the LTR visa market

They don't give a flying f**k about such, hence Elite we got shafted gradually over time.

 

[toums]

So to summarize for now the situation, IF Thailand gvt vote and enforce the worldwide taxation, even not remitted :

1) Staying always 179days or less per calendar year in TH and not being tax resident there. But still not solve properly for another ‘real’ tax residency somewhere (90days in UAE / 60 days Cyprus / keeping Portuguese NHR…?)

2)Opting for the LTR wealthy visa (for the one can prove they have 1M$+ in liquid asset + 80K$ income/passive income in the last two years) AND invest 500K€+ (20M baht) in TH.. (real estate included). This is granted you (for now) tax free of foreign income even remitted, anytime

3)Staying 1 particular year 179days or less in TH and remit any amount of money from abroad free on tax in TH, the same year. But as @wellington said, it doesn’t really help people who has monthly/ regularly income/salary if the tax worldwide and you live in TH the next years for 180days+..

But for this 3) we still have to know which type of income they would tax if worldwide tax (salary, dividends, interests, capital gain from outside thailand too??)

Can't see the privilege getting special tax treatment, that's owned by the tourism department and would eat into the LTR visa market which the thai gov consider much more important.

More likely to see changes to the LTR visa types if they push forward with worldwide taxation imo.

In my exemple, I said, IF worldwide taxation enforced and DTV visa still on track :

- PRIVILEGE : you pay the 900K for 5 years. You remit income in TH, you pay tax. You dont remit, no tax, as now.
- LTR : remitted or not. tax free.

And IF they put worldwide taxation, no advantage for PRIVILEGE and cut the LTR.. What's happen ?

Wealthy retired, or Wealthy early retired, rich private investor, crypto millionnaire, sucessfull trader etc..just dont take TH as tax residency, and let all cheap tourist or cheap charlie in TH.. and some US citizen (worldwide taxation anyway..)

Even without this now, we see there are more visitors in TH but less income for the country.. so if they want to go that way, they will see what happen in mid term..

Sabai sabai

 

[JackAlabama]

In my exemple, I said, IF worldwide taxation enforced and DTV visa still on track :

- PRIVILEGE : you pay the 900K for 5 years. You remit income in TH, you pay tax. You dont remit, no tax, as now.
- LTR : remitted or not. tax free.

And IF they put worldwide taxation, no advantage for PRIVILEGE and cut the LTR.. What's happen ?

Wealthy retired, or Wealthy early retired, rich private investor, crypto millionnaire, sucessfull trader etc..just dont take TH as tax residency, and let all cheap tourist or cheap charlie in TH.. and some US citizen (worldwide taxation anyway..)

Even without this now, we see there are more visitors in TH but less income for the country.. so if they want to go that way, they will see what happen in mid term..

Sabai sabai

its nothing new then.

 

[wellington]

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2883792/minister-urges-tax-system-reshuffle

 

[DCble]

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2883792/minister-urges-tax-system-reshuffle

Tax rises for many incoming.

 

[orangekangaroo]

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-n...at-tax-regime-may-link-visas-and-tax-returns/

This one also does not paint a rosy picture. I can see an exodus of expats coming. Expats will ask themselves what do I get for the 30% tax. They still have to have private medical insurance as local medical system is not up to scratch and they still have to use private schools, you would not send your kids to a Thai school. Expat can return to their home countries in the knowledge they pay similar tax levels but decent healthcare and schooling is provided for.

Secondly, some country's pension contributions were taxed at the time of contributions and are provided tax-free at the time of payment. Even with double tax treaties in place, these pensions will be taxed. Add to that all the paperwork.

Thirdly, Thailand has 30-year leaseholds and a questionable 51% Thai-owned company structure to own property. Do they see the overall expat picture?

On one hand the DTV is about bringing people in. But WW taxation will lead to a massive exodus. The solution here could be a non-dom taxation, maybe with a 10-15-year time limit and special pensioner exemptions.

 

[JackAlabama]

interesting comments from the article.

"
Isn't it fascinating how foreigners are not allowed to interact with the Thai economy, as per the work permit laws because God forbid they make money and take advantage. Yet, somehow, the economy is allowed to interact with foreigners and take taxes from them because that would be an advantage for the government. So basically if it benefits us then it's banned, but if it works against us and benefits the state then it's totally fine.So we can't be part of the economy but we can be taxed. Yeah...right.

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"

 

[orangekangaroo]

I think this article writes it well from an expat's point of view and how they feel about the looming worldwide taxation rules.

https://nomadgirl.co/end-of-the-thailand-dream-for-expats-new-worldwide-taxation-plans-loom/

 

[DCble]

I'm questioning if Thailand is worth it even if WW taxation never comes in.

Malta looks more and more appealing with the years actually counting towards getting citizenship and less chance of the government changing their mind all the time and throwing out ideas.

 

[wellington]

Really depends if you live hand to mouth (income) or have savings/investments that you can pull from to live off.

I.e some of us have principle invested that allows years/decades of grandfathered in prior income so current stance remains unaffected and the way to deal with WW income is to use a vehicle as Thailand is still very much territorial on that front

 

[Clank]

Really depends if you live hand to mouth (income) or have savings/investments that you can pull from to live off.

I.e some of us have principle invested that allows years/decades of grandfathered in prior income so current stance remains unaffected and the way to deal with WW income is to use a vehicle as Thailand is still very much territorial on that front

if they introduce WW income even the money you earn outside Thailand will be taxed.