Thailand new change - world wide income at Thai tax levels to be taxed

[wellington]

I’ve been a few times in Penang island and it’s amazing and there is a big expat community that does activities constantly. The beach sucks but the people and food is way better than Thailand. Also you are half an hour flight away from Phuket for some party life in case you are missing that

Only ever visited once - seemed ok

Beaches of Langkawi are amazing though

Also if you are just using it for tax planning then use the whole of Malaysia

So KL 1 week
Sarawak 3 weeks
Penang 4 weeks

Then somewhere else in ML

It’s a very diverse country with lots of areas to stay/visit

Bali is also great (preferred) and Thai consulate there is rather chilled (I used to do visa renewals there at one point)

 

[JackAlabama]

It depends on your citizenship or citizenships - in my case - yes if not resident more than 180 days in any country then yes tax free (but that again comes down to a few things on assets i.e i pay a tax in Europe (wealth tax) as non-resident, non-citizen, in the UK, you'd have takes if you own property or business interests etc.


Additionally in my case I have 0 annual income (not employed by the company) an a shareholder.

I own the majority of a company overseas but don’t get any dividends annually and don’t partake in its day to day operations or revenue sides etc

Because of the way the company operates it doesn’t liquidate its position for 5-10 yrs and when it does in that year or proceeding year or years I get dividends if there are any.

Due to knowing ahead of time roughly a year out - I can tax plan - previously it just meant maturing funds overseas and bringing in as needed due to Thailand territorial tax or other countries laws (Dubai, HK, etc)

Now it means travelling for 7 months (at worst case)

BUT because I’ve always rolled over 99% of dividends as re-investments I am grandfathered in with the savings rule meaning the principles prior to 2024 are tax free when i decide to draw it down.

So technically I don’t need to “travel” just take out principle and live off that until I die or travel and redeem dividends or live in a tax haven (caymans etc).

Its important to have a discussion/sit down with the Revenue Department (like i did) as every nationality, and every person is different.

Why wont this be like with immigration? Rules are just made up on the fly, by the person who sits in front of you and his current mood on that day.
Like what now has happened with that completely ridic tm30 system.

 

[wellington]

Why wont this be like with immigration? Rules are just made up on the fly, by the person who sits in front of you and his current mood on that day.
Like what now has happened with that completely ridic tm30 system.

Because the law is the law, and you actually have a method to dispute via the court process.

Immigration is a fiefdom (decentralised), revenue department is all managed from Bangkok, all digital, having said that immigration increasingly is all digital routing out issues, hence they want you to go to an agent as they still get their cut via a agent.

I had a immigration officer at my last criminal case (translating and coordinating/negotiating) the younger don't want corruption, its the elderly and they are being squeezed out, they prefer to take on honest secondary roles like in legal/justice .

 

[JackAlabama]

Because the law is the law, and you actually have a method to dispute via the court process.

ive seen a very different place but understand a public forum is not an ideal place for expanding this further.

Immigration is a fiefdom (decentralised), revenue department is all managed from Bangkok, all digital, having said that immigration increasingly is all digital routing out issues, hence they want you to go to an agent as they still get their cut via a agent.

I had a immigration officer at my last criminal case (translating and coordinating/negotiating) the younger don't want corruption, its the elderly and they are being squeezed out, they prefer to take on honest secondary roles like in legal/justice .

not my experience at all with the young, the young are even more economically squeezed due to very high cost of living and a low earning capacity due to very low salary band, they dream of emigrating and going to the west bc children and its education there is free (and in Thailand a good education cost about 1M baht/y) is not even in the realm of possibility), additionally burdened by the retirement needs of parents but ymmv.
This can be seen in the demographic which is an outlier in SEA.

 

[wellington]

One thing i will say is a lot of people try and play the system, by having businesses that sell into the West or operate in the West, they'd be far better off shorting against the West both in return and in management of their financial affairs giving them years to tax plan ahead and a far better return, which i suspect you also do with or without knowing @JackAlabama

not my experience at all with the young

I am referring to the police / gov side.

a job in gov is a job for life in Thailand.

Will also add... in Thailand, a lot of students get their degree in Thailand then a degree abroad and return to Thailand to earn good incomes...

I imagine you are referring to those that are not intellectually capable, and yes many of them head to the West (hence its downfall).

and in Thailand a good education cost about 1M baht/y

Degree as a doctor in Thailand is 3m total.

Computer science degree is about 300k and legal is about same.

Know this from experience.

Will also add wives uncle retires soon (police senior) he's on the younger cohort of the old guard, anti corruption, those above (older) are all corrupt.

Younger ones below are less corrupt (en-mass).

FYI being fined for not wearing a helmet etc isn't corruption, the police system in Thailand is rewards based i/e money laundering division get a % of the spoils, same approach goes down hill to the police on the street.

Also a better system, because less tax load....

 

[A1988]

Only ever visited once - seemed ok

Beaches of Langkawi are amazing though

Also if you are just using it for tax planning then use the whole of Malaysia

So KL 1 week
Sarawak 3 weeks
Penang 4 weeks

Then somewhere else in ML

It’s a very diverse country with lots of areas to stay/visit

Bali is also great (preferred) and Thai consulate there is rather chilled (I used to do visa renewals there at one point)

You mentioned bali, I was reading that if you live in bali under a non permanent visa you are treated as a non resident for tax purposes even if you live for more than 183 days? Would you have any idea about that? I can probably structure it with maltese residency where minimum stay is 0 days and all foreign income is tax free, allows me to add another layer of safety.

 

[wellington]

You mentioned bali, I was reading that if you live in bali under a non permanent visa you are treated as a non resident for tax purposes even if you live for more than 183 days? Would you have any idea about that? I can probably structure it with maltese residency where minimum stay is 0 days and all foreign income is tax free, allows me to add another layer of safety.

No clue, i used to fly in for a few weeks every quarter or every other quarter years ago (holiday)

 

[A1988]

No clue, i used to fly in for a few weeks every quarter or every other quarter years ago (holiday)

Thanks for the inputs, I'm planning to move to south east Asia myself with my family once I am done with Malta, although my taxes are optimised I think it's better I get out of Europe sooner and move to a decent place which has better weather, people and decent taxes. Malaysia is my no.1 choice to live for tax residency and diversity, banking in singapore and offshore company in Hong Kong and holiday home in Thailand or bali .

 

[wellington]

Thanks for the inputs, I'm planning to move to south east Asia myself with my family once I am done with Malta, although my taxes are optimised I think it's better I get out of Europe sooner and move to a decent place which has better weather, people and decent taxes. Malaysia is my no.1 choice to live for tax residency and diversity, banking in singapore and offshore company in Hong Kong and holiday home in Thailand or bali .

Own property in Malta?

If you can live in Singapore i highly recommend it, wealth of return for committing to the place.

 

[A1988]

Own property in Malta?

If you can live in Singapore i highly recommend it, wealth of return for committing to the place.

I am renting a villa near the sea in the south with a big garden, it's nice and peaceful but I see problems in malta in the long run, I pay very little in comparison to acquisition cost which would be around 3m euros for the place I'm staying. Is it worth it, yes for the short term till my patents are sold, then I am off to south east Asia.

Own property in Malta?

If you can live in Singapore i highly recommend it, wealth of return for committing to the place.

Seriously considering singapore but my problem with it is that raising kids in an excessively materialistic and classist society has its repercussions, I lived in dubai and saw many cases, hence keeping malaysia as my No.1 option for now but you never know.

 

[wellington]

I just ran some numbers, avg person spending 100k a month in Thailand is gonna have tax of roughly 120-180k a year.

That's not actually bad to be honest, unsure what all the fuss is over.

 

[jafo]

honest secondary roles like in legal/justice .

Best joke you've had so far!

This made me laugh so hard! Thank you! I needed that!

 

[yomboloz]

Its important to have a discussion/sit down with the Revenue Department (like i did) as every nationality, and every person is different.

Did you go to the main office? I went to a Area office in Bangkok and couldn't get anything done sadly, the only person who spoke English was an entry-level position employee, and even though he tried to help with my questions he ended up advising me to go to the main office.
I've paid 3 different tax accountants for DTA advise about my situation, and they all gave 3 different opinions regarding how much tax I need to pay here.
Is it possible to get an official tax ruling from the Revenue Department like in other countries?

 

[Mercury]

Is it possible to get an official tax ruling from the Revenue Department like in other countries?

Seriously?

I suggest you spend more time in Thailand to understand how it works out there.

 

[wellington]

Did you go to the main office? I went to a Area office in Bangkok and couldn't get anything done sadly, the only person who spoke English was an entry-level position employee, and even though he tried to help with my questions he ended up advising me to go to the main office.
I've paid 3 different tax accountants for DTA advise about my situation, and they all gave 3 different opinions regarding how much tax I need to pay here.
Is it possible to get an official tax ruling from the Revenue Department like in other countries?

Discussion with regional office yes and phone call with head office

Had no issues with speaking English

But some words ares specific Thai so the translated Word has to be confirmed if dealing in Thai - same in legalese in general

 

[FZSAAS]

If hold multiple directorships in different regions, to minimize tax outlay, invest any profits/salary in investment accounts, form a Thai company and pay taxes locally as a workaround?

I.e. have no foreign income visible

 

[yomboloz]

Seriously?

I suggest you spend more time in Thailand to understand how it works out there.

I do understand your point, but my idea is if an official tells me in writing I only have to pay 10% tax, it can prevent another official in the future disputing my tax return and saying I need to pay up to 35%

 

[wellington]

I do understand your point, but my idea is if an official tells me in writing I only have to pay 10% tax, it can prevent another official in the future disputing my tax return and saying I need to pay up to 35%

Just calculate a rough estimate which has you paying them 100-200k in taxes... and pay it.

Thailand will look at people not paying taxes, and size the tax amount up based on how much you bring in annually.

 

[yomboloz]

Just calculate a rough estimate which has you paying them 100-200k in taxes... and pay it.

Thailand will look at people not paying taxes, and size the tax amount up based on how much you bring in annually.

Planning to invest 500k$ for LTR so definitively need to know in advance what the actual net amount will be - 5%, 10% or 35% I'll try going to their head office next month to get an official answer. Sadly most of my NW was made this year so can't use previous years savings

 

[Mercury]

Planning to invest 500k$ for LTR so definitively need to know in advance what the actual net amount will be - 5%, 10% or 35% I'll try going to their head office next month to get an official answer. Sadly most of my NW was made this year so can't use previous years savings

Definitely remit the money you want to invest in a year you are not tax resident in Thailand. Tax-free. No need to declare anything and deal with TRD.