Thailand 0% tax

[jafo]

he only thing that I can reveal about this list is that they claim that this was the start point and this is 100000% a lie. Or this bank was hacked, or they had a employee working there of it was a complete honeypot.

If you are victim of this scam spam at least your government with freedom of information requests about this case. Because it isn’t a individual case in most counties you can get more information. Its just a simple email . This is how it works in the Netherlands Wet open overheid (Woo): zo regelt u een verzoek bij de Belastingdienst

I guess hacked. Same situation Panama papers pandora papers ect. Using 0days. Exploits. Software like Pegasus and afterwards information Laundry by sending it to journalist.

It's called parallel construction. You can read more about it here.

Yes this is much better but as you can read even people that spend a lot in “bijenkorf” where targeted in this project.

Yes, but if I am not mistaken, they only targeted Dutch residents, correct? For example, they didn't target an American or a Chinese tourist dropping down a Centurion card in Bijenkorf making a purchase of €100K, correct?

If affirmative (only Dutch residents targeted), then this is my WHOLE point! People who reside in the Netherlands (or any country in the EU) can NEVER make purchases outside their standard of living where they are tax residents. Never ever! The discipline to obey this rule must be ironclad.

You can sent a information request letter to all card holders in a single click.

Yes, but what will the tax authorities get from Visa, Mastercard, or American Express? "Jorge Zorreguieta" of Argentina paid €1150 for dinner at De Librije on Spinhuisplein 1 in Zwolle on August 3rd, 2022????
The "righteous & Holy ones" banned the poor schmuck from attending his own daughter's "wedding of the century." The least they can do is let him have a nice dinner

Ideally, Jan van de Groot (random Dutch name, by the way ) should NOT, under ANY circumstances, live OUTSIDE his financial means while residing in the Netherlands! Never EVER! I think we are all in agreement with this.

If "Jan van de Groot" wants to live it up, he should take a trip to Barcelona, Spain, and load his Google Pay or Apple Pay on another phone with his foreign credit card (both phone & cc that have NEVER touched or been in the Netherlands), and have a wonderful dinner at Cocina Hermanos Torres on Taquígraf Serra 20. It's the disciplined price one MUST pay...if one wants to remain living in a society like the Netherlands. Personally, I wouldn't do it or advise anyone to do it, but I have "heard of others executing it with surgical precision...and for decades."

I know you have such things.

In my opinion is the best advise what I read regarding this tax issue comes from @wellington about the loan agreements and tax free

I agree! It seems really good.

Here also freedom of information request approved: https://hertoghsadvocaten.nl/wp-con...-Wob-Woo-verzoek-over-project-Monte-Negro.pdf they had a list of all phone numbers that had called with a bank in Swiss. They have thousands of tactics to track people down. Their only problem is capacity what you can use in your favor but this will be solved soon with AI.

The Dutch residents actually used their own Dutch phone number to call the bank in CH??? Like WTF???!!!
One can get an international SIM card # (of a tax-free country) for less than $20 per month. F*ck! They could have gotten an Asian #.
There is also TAILS, TOR, or even static IPs from tax-free countries for less than $30/month. They could use it to communicate with email or just do a https://remotedesktop.google.com/access/ , so they don't even need to pay for VPNs.
Even if the CH bank wants to load client software on the PC to make sure, the bank can do so. The account holder can own or rent in a cheap jurisdiction and set up a Chromebook like this one.

I bet the Dutch residents spent hundreds of thousands of € in fines, legal fees, etc etc.

Being penny-wise and pound-foolish is NEVER a good strategy.

The good thing about all these "cases" is that they give the uninitiated a way to reverse-engineer their strategies BEFORE they get "electrocuted."

 

[Marketint]

Yes, but if I am not mistaken, they only targeted Dutch residents, correct? For example, they didn't target an American or a Chinese tourist dropping down a Centurion card in Bijenkorf making a purchase of €100K, correct?

Yes they filtered tourist and targeted cards with 100k+ spending but this was this project started in 2009 ( I mention 2011 before). Login pagina - Recht.nl

"5. The project documents belonging to the pleadings state that in December 2009 the Tax Administration (officially) launched the DCC project".

I dont think that it still is the case. As I remember you know the bought stolen data from the belgiums KBLUX case. They like exchange data. We dont are allowed to buy something stolen. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Same more recently for BCEE luxembourg. Received from the germans. (source: Het presenteerblaadje voor de fiscus )

The Dutch residents actually used their own Dutch phone number to call the bank in CH??? Like WTF???!!!
One can get an international SIM card # (of a tax-free country) for less than $20 per month. F*ck! They could have gotten an Asian #.
There is also TAILS, TOR, or even static IPs from tax-free countries for less than $30/month. They could use it to communicate with email or just do a https://remotedesktop.google.com/access/ , so they don't even need to pay for VPNs.
Even if the CH bank wants to load client software on the PC to make sure, the bank can do so. The account holder can own or rent in a cheap jurisdiction and set up a Chromebook like this one.
View attachment 6600

yes its weird but there where a lot of offshore agents in the netherlands with disneyland stories. Offshore services where openly advertised in the Netherlands.

The good thing about all these "cases" is that they give the uninitiated a way to reverse-engineer their strategies BEFORE they get "electrocuted."

Translation:
Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the
Netherlands no longer sends requests to Rus-
country, nor are incoming legal
aid requests are being processed. Also
The flow of legal aid with Hong Kong has come to a
halted, after the Netherlands, together
with other European countries (because of China's
China's growing influence on Hong Kong)
suspended their bilateral extradition treaties with
Hong Kong were suspended. Subsequently
Hong Kong decided to suspend the bilateral
legal assistance treaty to suspend.


A lot of people didnt know this (for HK)


I dont know if this is still the case. I dont know for NON-eu countries how they deal now with Hong Kong. Publication date is 12-04-2023. Always good to read each publication in full. Not to evade taxes but to arm yourself against these mafia organizations.

 

[wellington]

Exactly. I have a part of the card holder list/excel sheet of mr peter schiff. Here you have company names and personal names and even address where the card is delivered and where the card holder lives (basically the address that is used to create the card). Properly when my case is finally closed I will upload it here. As long it is isn’t against my settlement agreement for my case. I don’t had a active account at the moment of the raid. I am talking about project Atlantis .

They contact such companies that give out such cards and force them to give all the info they have. Even delivery address.

The only thing that I can reveal about this list is that they claim that this was the start point and this is 100000% a lie. Or this bank was hacked, or they had a employee working there of it was a complete honeypot.

If you are victim of this scam spam at least your government with freedom of information requests about this case. Because it isn’t a individual case in most counties you can get more information. Its just a simple email . This is how it works in the Netherlands Wet open overheid (Woo): zo regelt u een verzoek bij de Belastingdienst

I guess hacked. Same situation Panama papers pandora papers ect. Using 0days. Exploits. Software like Pegasus and afterwards information Laundry by sending it to journalist.

But using company card won’t save you.

And beside that. They can just contact Mastercard/visa ect where this card is issued. I don’t have the link here but there is even a case in Panama where they forced DHL to release all data regarding sending/receiving all shipments to one address of a law firm.

I can confirm Dutch tax authorities do this as well in individual cases. They contact all the courier companies for your shipment history.

Yes this is much better but as you can read even people that spend a lot in “bijenkorf” where targeted in this project.

I Agree as you can read here they targeted just the high spenders . But now with the stand of the technology. You can sent a information request letter to all card holders in a single click.

Dutch DPA fines municipality for Wi-Fi tracking | European Data Protection Board I always doubt if there is already WiFi and Bluetooth tracking in atm machines. I am wondering why I still see so much people with a hoodie at the atm in crime programs like “opsporing verzocht” where they are looking for. This idiotis do this job for 50 euro and are 90% idiots with their phone in their fake Gucci bag during their ATM visit . They even don’t cover their face well.

I think they don’t have it but don’t be surprise if we have to deal with such systems in the future.

I know you have such things. View attachment 6598

In my opinion is the best advise what I read regarding this tax issue comes from @wellington about the loan agreements and tax free donations. But I am pretty sure that this loopholes will be closes very soon.


Here also freedom of information request approved: https://hertoghsadvocaten.nl/wp-con...-Wob-Woo-verzoek-over-project-Monte-Negro.pdf they had a list of all phone numbers that had called with a bank in Swiss. They have thousands of tactics to track people down. Their only problem is capacity what you can use in your favor but this will be solved soon with AI.

Use ai pdf to translate scanned docs or use Google lens with a second phone or tablet to make it easy to read.

On the tax free donations - it’s 20m THB per receiver - so 20m wide, 20m each kid etc.

This was introduced to allow the wealthy to pass their assets on to their kids - it’s unlikely it will be revoked for the people revoking it will be the ones using it.

But as mentioned one of my circle mentioned using this from his overseas mother in law

his company - his mother in law (non Thai) - his wife (non thai)

I tried to explain this only works with Thai citizens or residents but there has to be a Thai involved - I.e he must be married to a Thai.

Aside from this generally speaking for most people including myself - we are grandfathered in as long as we can provide evidence it’s savings and not investments being spent - and or income - and if we’ve invested we can still bring in the principle tax free.

Looking at my numbers/dividends and invested I should in theory have enough to last my lifetime (40+ yrs) and I’d imagine speaking to friends if they just bought their principle on they should be fine also without playing fuckery just have everything in case of a audit - but this new process actually leaves a massive tax get out in allowing pre owned assets/investments/funds as non taxable for the principle.

For those “working” sure it’s gonna be harsh - fortunately I’m ok.

Yes they filtered tourist and targeted cards with 100k+ spending but this was this project started in 2009 ( I mention 2011 before). Login pagina - Recht.nl

"5. The project documents belonging to the pleadings state that in December 2009 the Tax Administration (officially) launched the DCC project".

I dont think that it still is the case. As I remember you know the bought stolen data from the belgiums KBLUX case. They like exchange data. We dont are allowed to buy something stolen. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Same more recently for BCEE luxembourg. Received from the germans. (source: Het presenteerblaadje voor de fiscus )




yes its weird but there where a lot of offshore agents in the netherlands with disneyland stories. Offshore services where openly advertised in the Netherlands.




View attachment 6601


Translation:
Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the
Netherlands no longer sends requests to Rus-
country, nor are incoming legal
aid requests are being processed. Also
The flow of legal aid with Hong Kong has come to a
halted, after the Netherlands, together
with other European countries (because of China's
China's growing influence on Hong Kong)
suspended their bilateral extradition treaties with
Hong Kong were suspended. Subsequently
Hong Kong decided to suspend the bilateral
legal assistance treaty to suspend.


A lot of people didnt know this (for HK)


I dont know if this is still the case. I dont know for NON-eu countries how they deal now with Hong Kong. Publication date is 12-04-2023. Always good to read each publication in full. Not to evade taxes but to arm yourself against these mafia organizations.

US and HK extradition treaty was cancelled also.

Have a Australian friend - worth probably about 5-10m$ spent his entire adult life working in HK tax free as a engineer.

Australian gov tried to dig their claws in but couldn’t find any grapple points once they got the CRS information - because he had no touch points with Australia bar citizenship.

It’s always wise to completely sever links - I did - not entitled to NHS, Pension, entire circle of life left the citizenship state.

If you have wealth or are likely to obtain wealth then that’s what you need to do.

*research grandfathered savings*

Principle in investments minus profits or gains is allowed to be remitted tax free - just ensure you’ve got an audit trail.

Pensions dependent are also remitted tax free for some but others will be tied to the allowance Thai structure which means minimal tax up to possibly 35% dependent on lifestyle

 

[toums]

Why is cheap?? They have audits, tax filling etc etc plus what is the tax?? I’m so confused with this, please can you kindly clarify? Thank you

I mean The UK LLP is tax transparent (no corporate tax, if nothing involved with UK business, clients etc).
Yearly fee (agent address and tax return = 500€ / year usually, for basic).

Which tax ? In that case there is no business involved with the UK LLP. Just putting money as shareholder in the company, and using the UK LLP bank account for daily expenses in Thailand. No income, so no tax.

 

[JackieTsan]

I mean The UK LLP is tax transparent (no corporate tax, if nothing involved with UK business, clients etc).
Yearly fee (agent address and tax return = 500€ / year usually, for basic).

Which tax ? In that case there is no business involved with the UK LLP. Just putting money as shareholder in the company, and using the UK LLP bank account for daily expenses in Thailand. No income, so no tax.

Thank you for your response! I was reading that for UK LLP it's a big process, need personal TAX ID in UK, tax filling (and get exception later), audit.. correct?? You're the first that telling me that it's easy..
Could you please kindly send more info and maybe any suggested agent to open it?
Thank you very much

 

[toums]

I mean The UK LLP is tax transparent (no corporate tax, if nothing involved with UK business, clients etc).
Yearly fee (agent address and tax return = 500€ / year usually, for basic).

Which tax ? In that case there is no business involved with the UK LLP. Just putting money as shareholder in the company, and using the UK LLP bank account for daily expenses in Thailand. No income, so no tax.

But as explain very well @wellington most probably I don't need to go on that way for daily expenses in TH as I can show I have :
- Money/saving in different oversea bank accounts, prior to be tax resident in TH
- Stables coins in cold wallet + on CEX with interests prior to be tax resident in TH
- ETFs/stocks on IB, also prior to be tax resident in TH

All of them represents a nice 7 digits.
And if there is a way to include BTC and if you sell at some point some foreign properties for example (and can still remit for free the price you paid, without counting the profits, then it's even more).

So probably more than enough to spend time in Thailand, even if you buy a nice condo and nice car there, and good lifestyle.

Just the 'grey' point to be sure that these assets you want to remit tax free in TH can be still hold into a CEX, brokers, cold wallet (even during the year of remit in TH) OR they have to be necessarily in a BANK ACCOUNT (oversea) ?

And once again, you can still stay less than 180days in TH any particular year if you want to remit some big INCOME there, without being taxed as you would be not TH tax resident this particular year.
Btw @wellington, after what you said to me regarding ELITE, I totally forgot to have a look on the METV visa (multi entry visa 6 months). Look like you can stay in the Kingdom almost 9 months a year if you want as you can at the very end of the visa validity and get again 60days (and possibility to extend 30days more at the immigration), for a cost of 175€... (+ 30days extensions if you do some)..
Main inconvenient is you have to go out Thailand every 60days (or 90days if you ask every time the 30days extensions..) but still very cheap compare to the time you can spend in TH. Don't know if it's less flagged than an ED visa for example.

Also, do you know if you can still enter 1 or 2 times in exempt visa AFTER this METV or you have exhausted all possibilities with that way?

 

[wellington]

But as explain very well @wellington most probably I don't need to go on that way for daily expenses in TH as I can show I have :
- Money/saving in different oversea bank accounts, prior to be tax resident in TH
- Stables coins in cold wallet + on CEX with interests prior to be tax resident in TH
- ETFs/stocks on IB, also prior to be tax resident in TH

All of them represents a nice 7 digits.
And if there is a way to include BTC and if you sell at some point some foreign properties for example (and can still remit for free the price you paid, without counting the profits, then it's even more).

So probably more than enough to spend time in Thailand, even if you buy a nice condo and nice car there, and good lifestyle.

Just the 'grey' point to be sure that these assets you want to remit tax free in TH can be still hold into a CEX, brokers, cold wallet (even during the year of remit in TH) OR they have to be necessarily in a BANK ACCOUNT (oversea) ?

Think I covered most of that a few times

It’s only income / dividends / cap gains treated as income

We’ve been grandfathered in for savings

But as explain very well @wellington most probably I don't need to go on that way for daily expenses in TH as I can show I have :
- Money/saving in different oversea bank accounts, prior to be tax resident in TH
- Stables coins in cold wallet + on CEX with interests prior to be tax resident in TH
- ETFs/stocks on IB, also prior to be tax resident in TH

All of them represents a nice 7 digits.
And if there is a way to include BTC and if you sell at some point some foreign properties for example (and can still remit for free the price you paid, without counting the profits, then it's even more).

So probably more than enough to spend time in Thailand, even if you buy a nice condo and nice car there, and good lifestyle.

Just the 'grey' point to be sure that these assets you want to remit tax free in TH can be still hold into a CEX, brokers, cold wallet (even during the year of remit in TH) OR they have to be necessarily in a BANK ACCOUNT (oversea) ?

Probably safer onshore via OTC and show the assets were not liquidated I.e they were stable coins etc

 

[toums]

Thank you for your response! I was reading that for UK LLP it's a big process, need personal TAX ID in UK, tax filling (and get exception later), audit.. correct?? You're the first that telling me that it's easy..
Could you please kindly send more info and maybe any suggested agent to open it?
Thank you very much

I don't have one currently, only one UK LTD (non resident).
First time I hear that, process should be quick for a LLP, and as I heard you dont need to be UK citizen or resident.
you have the classic : Company Formation and Registration £12.99 to set-up
Then smaller accountant companies for the tax filling/return etc... at the price i said (at least for UK Ltd, but I don't see any reason you will get big difference with a LLP?)

As I know it's totally tax transparent (as a US LLC for example) and if you are no UK citizen, non resident, and no business in UK, then no tax in UK for sure. In my example, it was 0 income (just put money in the LLP and use it), so i don't see where you can get an exception later as no income coming..

Think I covered most of that a few times

It’s only income / dividends / cap gains treated as income

We’ve been grandfathered in for savings


Probably safer onshore via OTC and show the assets were not liquidated I.e they were stable coins etc

Not sure I understood what you mean (sorry).

 

[JackieTsan]

It’s only income / dividends / cap gains treated as income

ONLY if remited INSIDE TH, correct? At any time but ONLY if remited INSIDE TH, am I correct? IF you keep offshore company and investment dividends outside TH then you don't need to declare & get taxed, am I correct? Thank you

In my example, it was 0 income (just put money in the LLP and use it), so i don't see where you can get an exception later as no income coming..

That's different! What if you just moved all the money out of the LLP to your personal account as dividends? Thanks

 

[churumbelo]

I don't have one currently, only one UK LTD (non resident).
First time I hear that, process should be quick for a LLP, and as I heard you dont need to be UK citizen or resident.
you have the classic : Company Formation and Registration £12.99 to set-up
Then smaller accountant companies for the tax filling/return etc... at the price i said (at least for UK Ltd, but I don't see any reason you will get big difference with a LLP?)

As I know it's totally tax transparent (as a US LLC for example) and if you are no UK citizen, non resident, and no business in UK, then no tax in UK for sure. In my example, it was 0 income (just put money in the LLP and use it), so i don't see where you can get an exception later as no income coming..

My understanding, I spoke once to an UK accountant about it, is that you have to ask first the HMRC for an exemption. If granted (I don´t know how this works), then you do not have to file the partnership tax return nor register the members for self-assessment. Only annual accounts and confirmation statement would be required.

That's different! What if you just moved all the money out of the LLP to your personal account as dividends? Thanks

The UK LLP does not distribute dividends. It has members, not shareholders. And it is transparent.

 

[JackieTsan]

The UK LLP does not distribute dividends. It has members, not shareholders. And it is transparent.

so in this case is like yourself is working (similar to freelancer / person company), not an entity. Correct??

 

[wellington]

ONLY if remited INSIDE TH, correct? At any time but ONLY if remited INSIDE TH, am I correct? IF you keep offshore company and investment dividends outside TH then you don't need to declare & get taxed, am I correct? Thank you


That's different! What if you just moved all the money out of the LLP to your personal account as dividends? Thanks

Yes taxable if remitted only

Technically you can build a nice little tax free nest egg overseas with this as well.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

I find it really interesting that both Malaysia and Thailand seem to have laws in place that would be able to tax such a company (effective place of management/permanent establishment), but neither seems to care, as long as the company is registered abroad. Even if the entity is tax-transparent in the other country...
A guy I spoke to in Malaysia said he can't even get a tax ID - his accountant just gave him a blank stare and went: "But you're not paying any tax! You don't owe any! It's all foreign income! How would we be able to even apply for a tax ID?!"

 

[jafo]

I find it really interesting that both Malaysia and Thailand seem to have laws in place that would be able to tax such a company (effective place of management/permanent establishment), but neither seems to care, as long as the company is registered abroad. Even if the entity is tax-transparent in the other country...
A guy I spoke to in Malaysia said he can't even get a tax ID - his accountant just gave him a blank stare and went: "But you're not paying any tax! You don't owe any! It's all foreign income! How would we be able to even apply for a tax ID?!"

The exact same thing happened to me in China after +2 full years of exporting PPE products worldwide. I tried on numerous occasions to go to the State Taxation Administration in China with different attorneys and accountants, but the Chinese public servants just kept laughing at me and shooing me away. I was called from Laowai to Waiguoren, to even "retarded" Gweilo.

 

[wellington]

I find it really interesting that both Malaysia and Thailand seem to have laws in place that would be able to tax such a company (effective place of management/permanent establishment), but neither seems to care, as long as the company is registered abroad. Even if the entity is tax-transparent in the other country...
A guy I spoke to in Malaysia said he can't even get a tax ID - his accountant just gave him a blank stare and went: "But you're not paying any tax! You don't owe any! It's all foreign income! How would we be able to even apply for a tax ID?!"

Problem is you get like a friend of mine found out (mentioned on here) worked out of HK, but not in HK (engineering specialist) made his money, retired to Thailand, Thailand doesn't give a hoot, HK doesn't give a hoot, but Australia came knocking (and he hadn't been there or had a connection bar citizenship for decades) in HK he didn't have to report - which is the same issue you have in Thailand/Malaysia, the best way to approach such is have everything prepared for a audit.

That, or obtain a citizenship by investment and renounce western citizenship (always advisable these days if you have any tangible wealth).

 

[jafo]

Australia came knocking (and he hadn't been there or had a connection bar citizenship for decades

How did they find him?

Did he go back and visit Australia?

***Did he have social media confirming he has "money"?

***PS. Asking this because we all know that 99% of people bragging about money on social media actually have NO money

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Problem is you get like a friend of mine found out (mentioned on here) worked out of HK, but not in HK (engineering specialist) made his money, retired to Thailand, Thailand doesn't give a hoot, HK doesn't give a hoot, but Australia came knocking (and he hadn't been there or had a connection bar citizenship for decades) in HK he didn't have to report - which is the same issue you have in Thailand/Malaysia, the best way to approach such is have everything prepared for a audit.

Yes, similar issue with my friend in Malaysia (that's why he wants to get the tax ID), but he's a UK citizen, so I believe the risk is a lot lower than with Australia. And he never spends time in the UK, he lives full time in Malaysia.
But I guess there's always a way, just sublet a room in your apartment or something (on paper), so you have some taxable local income?

 

[wellington]

How did they find him?

Did he go back and visit Australia?

***Did he have social media confirming he has "money"?

***PS. Asking this because we all know that 99% of people bragging about money on social media actually have NO money

During passport renewal - he owned nothing 60+ and hasn’t been to aurstralia more than a few days in 30+ years

During passport renewal - he owned nothing 60+ and hasn’t been to aurstralia more than a few days in 30+ years

This is the same approach I take I’ll keep the passport as long as it’s accommodating the moment it’s not I’ll drop the citizenship.

Citizenships need to be treated like raincoats they have no commitment to you - so you shouldn’t to them.

 

[toums]

During passport renewal - he owned nothing 60+ and hasn’t been to aurstralia more than a few days in 30+ years


This is the same approach I take I’ll keep the passport as long as it’s accommodating the moment it’s not I’ll drop the citizenship.

Citizenships need to be treated like raincoats they have no commitment to you - so you shouldn’t to them.

He didn't renew the passport from the Embassy abroad ? (also with proof of residence / utility bill to put the foreign residence on the passport?)

 

[wellington]

He didn't renew the passport from the Embassy abroad ? (also with proof of residence / utility bill to put the foreign residence on the passport?)

Yes from Thailand and then they contacted him about his potential taxes as they knew where he was based