Talking about Poland and Going to Jail for 50 Dollar Printer at Home...

[Forester]

Just my 2 cents...

Estonia for IT-related, Latvia for fintech.

You mean probably Lithuania, not Latvia, don't you?

At least that was the way a few years ago.

Yes, a few years ago. Nowadays, at least fintech in LT is a bad option.

Poland is OK if you need to work with local market, otherwise it's not the friendliest jurisdiction and you will have troubles finding English-speaking employees. Poland is a relatively big country with strongish local market, so while it benefits local SMBs it also affects the mentality - people refuse to think globally, refuse to learn other languages and generally tend to isolationism. Which also makes it safer and nicer country to visit or stay for a while.

I am in a similar situation. I already lived in Poland few years in the past. Except the cold winters, I loved it. I never see anything better matching my lifestyle in EU for now. Much better than 'western EU'. Cheaper, nice people, lots of services and amenities and english is widely spoken (better than in the west). Poland the last few years is not the Poland of the past anymore. Many people start to notice it.
Strong economy, will be the 1st army of EU soon, great infrastructure etc.

I am just worried in the future, they might somehow change their mind retrospectively ...

I find the accounting + ZUS expensive though.

I have completely opposite experience. But I do like if most of people believe that

I think both of you are right, in the specific way. From my personal perspective, Poland is definitely not uniform, on the contrary. E.g. for rural regions, @manukahoney is right almost perfectly; in bigger cities, @dziter 's experience is well valid.
(BTW, this is not exceptional in the world at all.)

Generally, as far the business environment is concerned, I would say that if you remain to be just a small fish (it seems to me that it can be the case of your setup, @lagloriacubana), you can be fine. If you enter a big business and start to make a remarkable money, you can be endangered, unfortunately...
At least I think so.

Not to forget: I share the opinion that PL is a nice and quite safe country to visit or stay for a while. I cannot form a judgement to what extent it is important to be able at least understand local language; it seems to me that it is important (again, nothing exceptional in the world) but it's just a speculation from me, I understand Polish well so cannot try the opposite

 

[brianK]

Bulgaria also doesn’t really fit the bill and cost savings will be defeated by other expenses I do if I go that route.

What would be the "other expenses" if you don't mind to elaborate?

I am considering moving to Bulgaria at some point because, for relatively little money, 1 million euros, you can live very well there and build an amazing house to live in.

And with an annual income of just 400,000 euros, you can live really well there, from what I’ve read.

 

[lagloriacubana]

What would be the "other expenses" if you don't mind to elaborate?

I am considering moving to Bulgaria at some point because, for relatively little money, 1 million euros, you can live very well there and build an amazing house to live in.

And with an annual income of just 400,000 euros, you can live really well there, from what I’ve read.

Other expenses in this situation are relevant to my personal situation - I doubt they will impact you.

I highly recommend that you actually visit Bulgaria a few times and try to socialise before you make the decision. I have a friend who moved here and didn't like the overall enviornment - but that's his experience, not anything I can personally comment on.

Furthermore, you have to take into account there is still an issue with organised crime in Bulgaria and overall corruption level is extremely high. Here was an interesting article not too long ago https://www.ft.com/content/58b59fde-0f4a-4da2-b68e-e824eee9380e

Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Bulgaria

Have you lived in such countries like Bulgaria or Romania before? If not, highly recommend spend at least two 2-3 month trips - during winter and summer - before you make such a decision to put in a million there or move there.

I am not sure about Bulgaria but in Ukraine and another East European country I am familiar with businesses were bribing police to raid their competitors. So take that into account how flashy you want to live there. Once again, I have no such experience in Bulgaria but if you are familiar with post-soviet culture and how crime works in such places, best to spend some time in such places to see how comfortable you are actually living there.

 

[lagloriacubana]

It seems to me that it is important (again, nothing exceptional in the world) but it's just a speculation from me, I understand Polish well so cannot try the opposite

Until now I have had no problems with language issues - but then I have not dealt with government officials, in which case I would take a lawyer or interpreter with me anyway.

About 15 years ago, I found myself sitting next to a C-level executive from Mercury Bank on a train from Berlin to Warsaw. We ended up chatting for most of the trip, and I was very impressed with how ambitious Polish businesspeople were. Fast forward to now, and seeing the success of so many Polish companies in the IT space (which I know a bit about, since it's my industry), I really can't agree with the idea that they’re closed off to the outside world. Just look at how much progress has been made economically. That kind of growth doesn’t happen by staying inward-focused nut rather by looking ahead and reaching out.

 

[Forester]

About 15 years ago, I found myself sitting next to a C-level executive from Mercury Bank on a train from Berlin to Warsaw. We ended up chatting for most of the trip, and I was very impressed with how ambitious Polish businesspeople were. Fast forward to now, and seeing the success of so many Polish companies in the IT space (which I know a bit about, since it's my industry), I really can't agree with the idea that they’re closed off to the outside world.

This is really context-dependent, in my deep opinion. Try to take a passenger train (e.g.) from Sandomierz or Bialystok to some place nearby and you will probably be surprised what you will hear from the passengers next to you (hypothethically, as in many cases they will not speak English). (To avoid misunderstanding – there is nothing wrong with these people. They only perceive the world differently.)

Just look at how much progress has been made economically. That kind of growth doesn’t happen by staying inward-focused nut rather by looking ahead and reaching out.

The economic progress of PL is of course indisputable. As for the background, I think that there are two factors:
1) The traditional spirit of enterprise of Polish people. They were always really skilled as enterpreneurs.
2) Regardless of what political party was in power in the last decades, Poland was really smart and competent in the exploitation of EU funds. Hats off. (FMPOV, e.g. remarkably better than SK and much better than CZ.)

 

[brianK]

Other expenses in this situation are relevant to my personal situation - I doubt they will impact you.

I highly recommend that you actually visit Bulgaria a few times and try to socialise before you make the decision. I have a friend who moved here and didn't like the overall enviornment - but that's his experience, not anything I can personally comment on.

Furthermore, you have to take into account there is still an issue with organised crime in Bulgaria and overall corruption level is extremely high. Here was an interesting article not too long ago https://www.ft.com/content/58b59fde-0f4a-4da2-b68e-e824eee9380e

Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Bulgaria

Have you lived in such countries like Bulgaria or Romania before? If not, highly recommend spend at least two 2-3 month trips - during winter and summer - before you make such a decision to put in a million there or move there.

I am not sure about Bulgaria but in Ukraine and another East European country I am familiar with businesses were bribing police to raid their competitors. So take that into account how flashy you want to live there. Once again, I have no such experience in Bulgaria but if you are familiar with post-soviet culture and how crime works in such places, best to spend some time in such places to see how comfortable you are actually living there.

Impressive details you gave me there. Indeed good idea to stay there some months or more to get a feeling of how things are there. I plan to rent some AirBNB or something and take a few friend with me.

 

[Don]

Other expenses in this situation are relevant to my personal situation - I doubt they will impact you.

I highly recommend that you actually visit Bulgaria a few times and try to socialise before you make the decision. I have a friend who moved here and didn't like the overall enviornment - but that's his experience, not anything I can personally comment on.

Furthermore, you have to take into account there is still an issue with organised crime in Bulgaria and overall corruption level is extremely high. Here was an interesting article not too long ago https://www.ft.com/content/58b59fde-0f4a-4da2-b68e-e824eee9380e

Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Bulgaria

"from 2020 onwards, mafia related incidents have risen back to power and contract killings have been both successfully and unsuccessfully fulfilled. Racketeering amongst most bulgarian businesses has remained a problem throughout the country."

I can relate from personal experience that the private sector of this country gives off quite dark vibes. For example, companies like TIM - an organized crime syndicate incorporated as a holding company based in Varna, Bulgaria.The company is controlled by three veterans of an elite communist-era military unit: Tihomir Mitev, Ivo Kamenov, and Marin Mitev. The abbreviation TIM stands for the first letters of each of the owners' first names.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIM_(Bulgaria)

2 years ago I was recruiting a director in Bulgaria and decided not to work with one candidate, and he started threatening with violence, and break my skull.

Another story that happened like 10 years ago in 2013, an acquaintance ordered a taxi, and the taxi drove him to an deserted area, took out a knife and attempted to rob him.

Lawyers told me that basically income above 1m starts attracting racketeers, below that you can still remain under the radar.

Have you lived in such countries like Bulgaria or Romania before? If not, highly recommend spend at least two 2-3 month trips - during winter and summer - before you make such a decision to put in a million there or move there.

Its a fun place for digital nomads to get a cheap apartment in a ski resort and do your freelancing with relatively low tax.

I am not sure about Bulgaria but in Ukraine and another East European country I am familiar with businesses were bribing police to raid their competitors. So take that into account how flashy you want to live there. Once again, I have no such experience in Bulgaria but if you are familiar with post-soviet culture and how crime works in such places, best to spend some time in such places to see how comfortable you are actually living there.

I would recommend to keep a rather low profile too, if you have significant wealth.

Around 10% of Bulgarian population are gypsies - a rather interesting nation'

The country offers interesting tax incentives, relatively cheap labour, and properties.

Crypto friendly too:

Cool political scene:
https://fintelegram.com/breaking-news-former-bulgarian-prime-minister-boyko-borissov-arrested/

https://www.politico.eu/article/the...bulgarias-mafia-state-reaches-breaking-point/

 

[JohnDebo]

Pros of Poland:
- Safe in general (no kidnappings etc.). Comparison with LATAM.
- Safe to walk on the streets, even at night. Comparison with France / UK / Germany / USA / LATAM.
- Not as woke as most of the Western countries.
- Quite beautiful women.
- Good infrastructure (roads, trains, bicycle paths, sidewalks). Comparison with LATAM / USA / SEA (omitting Singapore).
- Relatively good level of English among population. Comparison with LATAM.
- Having both Amazon and Allegro (and, IMO, Allegro is a better version of Amazon).
- Good selection of food products, high quality of food, safe food. Comparison with LATAM / USA.
- Inpost, convenient way of collecting parcels. No need to wait for a delivery man if you live somewhere without reception.
- Relatively mild temperatures in summertime (20-30 Celsius) and getting dark quite late (9/10 pm). Comparison with countries closer to equator.
- Quite modern cars on the streets. If you like walking it matters, as in LATAM or most of SEA countries, when you get close to street, you can feel how air stinks - probably because old cars are emitting a lot of s**t into the air.
- A lot of good travelling spots around, close-by. You have direct flights to most of EU countries + North Africa + Middle East + Caucasus. Most of these flights are going to be 1-3 hours.
- Airbnb works in all major cities. Comparison with Barcelona or New York, where it doesn't work. Or Rio, where you need to be a brave person to use it.
- High quality of newly constructed apartments and houses (in comparison with most of LATAM / Caucasus / Southern Europe).
- High quality of medical care if you use private providers.

Cons:
- Winters: bad weather, short days, bad air quality.
- There aren't many long distance flights options (it should change in a few years with a construction of CPK).
- People tend to have less positive vibes in interactions compared to those in LATAM or Southern Europe.
- Most shops closed on Sundays.

IMO good place to be in summertime, not so good place to be in wintertime. But also depends on what you like.

These are my perspectives about living / visiting Poland. Doing business is another thing, but it was already described in this thread.

 

[diro]

I am quoting messages from this thread: https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/zen-com-and-crs.45465/page-2#post-328582

@Don would be the best person to quote a source because although I know many people from Poland, been there plenty of times, love Warsaw but am still alarmed reading what was written…

This book was also referred in the thread: https://ksiazka.wprost.pl/polowanie

Did you go to jail already or avoided it thanks to our discussion here?

 

[daniels27]

He went to tax jail

L

Thread 'is it true that tax jail is like a hotel?'

Dec 10, 2024

Hi guys
my accountant told me when someone gets in trouble with the irs and the irs throws them in jail, it's not a real jail. it's not like you are going to be roommates with a gang member with face tattoos. he said tax jail is like a hotel room. is that true?

• libtard
• Replies: 10
• Forum: Tax, Accounting & Legal

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