Swiss EMIs, accounts <10,000 eur no CRS

[newNomad]

Interesting intelligence from kpmg:
https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/us/pdf/2021/01/tnf-fatca-switzerland-jan27-2021.pdf

 

[JosephLL]

It says EMI accounts *with limits* < 10000 chf/eur/usd/gbp. Not with *current balance* <10000.

 

[newNomad]

Interesting detail...would have interpreted it wrongly but yes there are quite a few exceptions

 

[marioIT]

The actual ordinance says agreed balance of max 10k.
art. 16 here:
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2016/786/en
"a contractually agreed balance of no more than 10,000 Swiss francs, US dollars or euros"

But switzerland is a weird place, you could have a different answer once you show up with bags full of money

 

[troubled soul]

But How many Swiss EMIs are there in market ?
Can Anybody name them ?

 

[JosephLL]

SEBA "bank", SQ, Dukascopy, Sygnum ... You have to dig really deep to prove these are banks to, probably at the end, conclude that in fact they are not, but in fact EMIs Especially in jurisdiction like Switz, with a whole rainbow of financial licences.

We use the word *bank* too often too loose for entities that from the outside look like one.

However, there is one thing and one thing only that defines a *depository institution* (aka "a bank") : government monopolistic licence to have a liability category called deposit, on which it issues *new* money in the act of a loan distribution.

If it doesn't have a license to create miney by issuing new loans, it is not a bank. All other properties, like having a word "bank" in its name, client accounts being segregated & having ibans, institution having a swift code or not, having access to central bank's clearing system, qualifying for deposit protection scheme, even having deposits, but not being able to issue loans is completely irrelevant. It still isn't a bank.

 

[Martin Everson]

But How many Swiss EMIs are there in market ?

Seems only 3 Fintech licenses have been issued according to Finma i.e Klarpay, Mogli and Yapeal

https://www.finma.ch/en/~/media/finma/dokumente/bewilligungstraeger/pdf/fintech.pdf?la=en

 

[Silvio]

SEBA "bank", SQ, Dukascopy, Sygnum ... You have to dig really deep to prove these are banks to, probably at the end, conclude that in fact they are not, but in fact EMIs Especially in jurisdiction like Switz, with a whole rainbow of financial licences.

We use the word *bank* too often too loose for entities that from the outside look like one.

However, there is one thing and one thing only that defines a *depository institution* (aka "a bank") : government monopolistic licence to have a liability category called deposit, on which it issues *new* money in the act of a loan distribution.

If it doesn't have a license to create miney by issuing new loans, it is not a bank. All other properties, like having a word "bank" in its name, client accounts being segregated & having ibans, institution having a swift code or not, having access to central bank's clearing system, qualifying for deposit protection scheme, even having deposits, but not being able to issue loans is completely irrelevant. It still isn't a bank.

Not all banks give loans. These banks have a banking license, so officially they are a bank, not an EMI. Also I don't think they could legally call themselves a bank unless they were actually a bank.
I've never seen an EMI calling himself a bank. Let's stick to official definitions, not made up definitions, otherwise it's meaningless to have a discussion.

How does a bank have a "government monopolistic licence" if there are plenty of banks all around... kind of beats the definition of the word "monopolistic". Banking license is not really a monopolistic license to "print money" as many people who watched too many YouTube videos think. Plenty of banks nowadays struggle to make any money at all and have to increase fees or pass the negative interest to savers etc.

 

[marioIT]

Seems only 3 Fintech licenses have been issued according to Finma i.e Klarpay, Mogli and Yapeal

https://www.finma.ch/en/~/media/finma/dokumente/bewilligungstraeger/pdf/fintech.pdf?la=en

first two are invitation only/beta, third one IIRC must have a swiss bank account / address and it's kinda in dead water...
if someone has access to the first two please report. Even though these are not going to be very useful, for limits and in/out payments issues...

 

[Absol]

first two are invitation only/beta, third one IIRC must have a swiss bank account / address and it's kinda in dead water...
if someone has access to the first two please report. Even though these are not going to be very useful, for limits and in/out payments issues...

I looked at the three of them carefully too, disheartening. But interested in the evolution of this tread.

Other interesting fintechs out there?

 

[JosephLL]

Fintech license is too narrow, there are many swiss emis behind banking license type.

@maxmmm Don't really want to drag the thread into that direction. However, you might want to check these 2 things:

* BoE's quarterly bulletin: "Money creation in modern economy"

* Scientific article : "Hiw banks create money and wht can't firms do the same" from prof Werner (most downloaded article in history if Elsevier)

 

[Martin Everson]

Switzerland is probably the last place one would want to open an EMI. The high cost and pedantic nature of everything Swiss its a futile exercise born in hell.

 

[Absol]

Switzerland is probably the last place one would want to open an EMI. The high cost and pedantic nature of everything Swiss its a futile exercise born in hell.

Yes, are high cost and pedanctic nature of swiss, agree totally.

But Swiss rules allows many fintechs, banks and others, one of the few that accept Panama, the rest of the world bans Panama by default which is incredibly frustrating.

But if anyone has indications from EMI, banks or similar that allows Panama people, I will thank you very much.

Ya, Advcash, Paysera works but with some limitations, like a lot of other options

 

[DerAufklaerer]

Thanks for this Info
Try it on
Swissquote, Flowbank and Dukascopy

 

[DerAufklaerer]

DANGER
Not on Swissquote

And until now i have not a Confimation from Dukascopy

 

[Marzio]

Klarpay

They looks interesting and are somewhat amusig since they pride themselves about their transparent commissions only to find that they are not publishing their commissions.

Do anyone use Klarpay and know their fees?

 

[Marzio]

Here are Klarpay's fees.

They charge 75CHF per IBAN account + variable % on every transaction depending on business:
- Low Risk: 0.25% in/out
- Medium Risk: 0.35% in/out
- High Risk: 0.5% in/out

 

[icecold]

What is the point using them? I don't read all of it you posted?

 

[sinos]

Here are Klarpay's fees.

They charge 75CHF per IBAN account + variable % on every transaction depending on business:
- Low Risk: 0.25% in/out
- Medium Risk: 0.35% in/out
- High Risk: 0.5% in/out

UAE FZ or US LLC allowed for Klarpay? Crypto cashout from Kraken possible?

 

[Dreamy]

DANGER
Not on Swissquote

And until now i have not a Confimation from Dukascopy

What's bad in Swissquote?