Question Spaniard - Crypto - Exit strategy - 7 figures

[FreeBit]

Hello,
I'm new here and I would like to ask you if I'm on the right path with the exit strategy I'm working on.

First, bit of background.
Get into cryptos on 2013, been trading alts for all this time.
As you can imagine I made big money on 2017 but after that I've lost 99% of it.
I had money on cryptsy, mintpal, cryptopia and a few other exchanges that disapeared, meaning I have no way to proof part of the loses I had.
I expect to be back to the seven figures this year. Not even close to it now but I know what a crypto bull year can make.

Point is. I want to move to a low/free tax country and use a cryptofriendly bank to deposit my profits (atleast the money I want to use the next 4 years).

This is the strategy I'm working on:
A) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + Cyprus cryptofriendly bank account
B) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + Swiss company + swiss cryptofriendly bank account
C) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + UAE company + UAE bank account
D) UAE residency + UAE company + UAE bank account
E) Please add some options you guys would consider

Would this work?

 

[ZManor]

Hi guys, this is is a very interesting thread. I'm also a Spanish resident. Is there not any tax efficient way of cashing out from crypto (hodl and day trades) while remaining in Spain? Surely there must be something that can be done that makes it more efficient. Is day trading better through a Spanish company? Hodl is only subject to cap gains after holding for 1 year.

 

[offshore xpert]

I see that some comments in regards to banks. Just to provide some light, banks in Panama and Georgia don't like crypto transfers (if you are a non-resident), so don't waste your time there. The easiest way to see which banks are crypto friendly is doing your homework and figure out the banks that the crypto exchangers use. You can start with Kraken, etc

 

[Roy182]

Sounds good for someone who has stolen btc but I don't see the need to use that "workarounds" to don't pay taxes on something I've earn legally...
Also good luck dealing with EU goverments proving you're not longer tax resident in your origin country without a tax residency anywhere else...
And why would you live in a desert when you can do it in a mediterranean place for half the cost?
For the seven figures bank issue it can be solved as long as is not all your wealth. Suisse banks are always happy to accept new money and there are some crypto friendly banks as long as you can proof the origin of funds.
About the Dubai Life Style I think is not for me. I prefer to be biking in the mountain or surfing than going to the mall with a lambo. Guess each one has it's priorities...

Look into Malta, that's where i moved

 

[legrant]

Hi guys, this is is a very interesting thread. I'm also a Spanish resident. Is there not any tax efficient way of cashing out from crypto (hodl and day trades) while remaining in Spain? Surely there must be something that can be done that makes it more efficient. Is day trading better through a Spanish company? Hodl is only subject to cap gains after holding for 1 year.

If you're in Spain, there's no way you're getting away without paying taxes. Having a company is just worth it if you earn more than 40k-50k/y but you'll still need to pay 25% of corporate tax and then dividends which is 5%. If you want to cashout crypto, you need to move from Spain.

 

[gwenvador]

I think the 0% tax is a dangerous game to play as you could be considered not a tax resident in UAE from your local tax authority. For example in the French / UAE double imposition treaty (article 4) tax residency is granted to the place where you pay taxes. So if you don't pay tax will you be tax resident? Government could use this on the many of the people who moved to Dubai. This should be carefully considered before looking at moving to UAE.

 

[gwenvador]

I would rather move to a place where I would pay a reasonable tax rate but be sure of the banking system and tax treaties for no surprise in the future. It seems the German / Austria tax system for long term crypto assets is quite interesting. Any downside for long-term holders?

 

[legrant]

I think the 0% tax is a dangerous game to play as you could be considered not a tax resident in UAE from your local tax authority. For example in the French / UAE double imposition treaty (article 4) tax residency is granted to the place where you pay taxes. So if you don't pay tax will you be tax resident? Government could use this on the many of the people who moved to Dubai. This should be carefully considered before looking at moving to UAE.

You can become an UAE resident and become tax resident there, @Fred can explain more about it. Once you become tax resident in UAE, you tell your former country that you're no longer a tax resident there, send all the proof of you being a tax resident in UAE and that's it. To be 100% sure you can also wait 183 days.

 

[gwenvador]

You can become an UAE resident and become tax resident there, @Fred can explain more about it. Once you become tax resident in UAE, you tell your former country that you're no longer a tax resident there, send all the proof of you being a tax resident in UAE and that's it. To be 100% sure you can also wait 183 days.

It is more complex than that and need to be careful planned. Especially if you keep ties with your country (family, investment...). My point is that at least for France the tax treaty with UAE is weak and could be interpreted in a bad way with the 0% tax. So it is a risk to be aware and to verify with a professional.

 

[legrant]

It is more complex than that and need to be careful planned. Especially if you keep ties with your country (family, investment...). My point is that at least for France the tax treaty with UAE is weak and could be interpreted in a bad way with the 0% tax. So it is a risk to be aware and to verify with a professional.

It's not really that complex. If you are a resident in UAE, pay taxes in UAE and you stay there for at least 183 so your home country doesn't get stupid about it, you're good to go. You just tell them you're no longer a resident there, show them the proof anf that's it. Investments in other countries such as properties will have to pay taxes on those countries, not UAE.

 

[Dasboot]

If I make it to those kinda figures I know for sure that a second passport would be the first thing I'd get..

Then build from there

 

[Fred]

If I make it to those kinda figures I know for sure that a second passport would be the first thing I'd get..

Then build from there

Depends where you come from.

All the 5 available caribbean passports are a huge downgrade for EU citizens.

Actually the only passport worth looking into is from Malta and nobody knows how long it will last.

 

[Dasboot]

Depends, if the state that think it owns you gets even more totalitarian then ANY options could be super valuable!

But as you mention for Malta, we don't really know how it will all play out...

 

[Fred]

Depends, if the state that think it owns you gets even more totalitarian then ANY options could be super valuable!

But as you mention for Malta, we don't really know how it will all play out...

Yes I agree.

However as let's say a German you don't really want to end up in immigration with a Dominica Passport - keep in mind Visa free travel means not that any country hast to let you enter the boarder - if you turn up with a Dominica Passport as a former German Passport holder - have fun to enter the EU.

 

[Dasboot]

Won't need to renounce necessarily.

Also a lot of places like here in Thailand the agent route is dependable, cash is king! ;-)

Stay in another country for a while, pay a minimum of taxes there (declare some of the gains only) then that goes towards negating any future taxation from ones original "owner" state.

Would not work everywhere, and with higher figures of course they might try really going after you if the detect it at all that is.

But if so, having a visa on a passport from a third country could work out well...

Main problem is that we don't know if states will get way more powerful and eager to crush anyone "getting away" or if they'll have their hands full with a coming depression or even collapse.

 

[Zaki]

Hello,
I'm new here and I would like to ask you if I'm on the right path with the exit strategy I'm working on.

First, bit of background.
Get into cryptos on 2013, been trading alts for all this time.
As you can imagine I made big money on 2017 but after that I've lost 99% of it.
I had money on cryptsy, mintpal, cryptopia and a few other exchanges that disapeared, meaning I have no way to proof part of the loses I had.
I expect to be back to the seven figures this year. Not even close to it now but I know what a crypto bull year can make.

Point is. I want to move to a low/free tax country and use a cryptofriendly bank to deposit my profits (atleast the money I want to use the next 4 years).

This is the strategy I'm working on:
A) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + Cyprus cryptofriendly bank account
B) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + Swiss company + swiss cryptofriendly bank account
C) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + UAE company + UAE bank account
D) UAE residency + UAE company + UAE bank account
E) Please add some options you guys would consider

Would this work?

If I were you I'll go without a second thought with the option :
D) UAE residency + UAE company + UAE bank account

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

they will be understandable with the proof of origin of funds because they do understand what has happended in the cryptospace and do know that most of the people has suffered the problem you mention.

Sorry, I respect your life choices and decisions, but that's where you lost me.
what are you describing is based on fantasy, Swiss bankers are not stupid and what are you describing is money laundering 101, at least in the eyes of bankers and governments (whether that apply to you or not is a different question)

Just ask yourself this question? why Swiss bankers (who are heavily monitored from both the Swiss government and western governments) would work with some one who can't satisfy basic KYC/AML regulations and want to use these banks for cashout purposes only? who in their right mind would accept such ridiculous thing, specially when these bankers have thousands of other applicants that can easily meet kYC/AML regulations and have much higher deposits and investments and are not high risk clients? the answer is nobody. here is the thing, they don't need you, you need them.

Swiss bankers and Swiss people in general rely on their brand, they have this comfortable image of themselves that they are good enough and they have the luxury to choose which people to work with (sometimes, i wonder how much longer will this last though, specially when you have better jurisdictions who are keeping up like Singapore and the UAE)

in the UAE, you have a completely different mindset and I'm speaking from experience. the UAE - even though they don't need your money - they need your business, they want you there, they are trying to get rid of this image that the UAE is what it is now, not because of oil, but because of their business friendly regulations and mature legal frameworks that exist in places like the DIFC. that's why, they are opening up these new ventures like DMCC crypto Centre and other things, they want people to come and they are trying to innovate to appeal to foreign investors.

in the UAE, all you need is dubai co + dubai visa + dubai bank account and you are set, from there you can diversify and invest/open foreign bank accounts from branch/representative offices in the DIFC in places like Switzerland, Singapore....etc. you really will have endless opportunities.

so why go through all these headaches when you can have straight forward solution that will cover all your needs?

 

[DrunkFlamingo]

Hey guys, new here. Been following this thread.

It seems UAE really is a great place to cash out of crypto. One question I haven't seen clearly answered: Once you've sold your crypto, and its sitting in fiat in your exchange (Binance, Kracken etc) - how easy is it to make the transfer from the exchange to your bank account?

 

[Fred]

Hey guys, new here. Been following this thread.

It seems UAE really is a great place to cash out of crypto. One question I haven't seen clearly answered: Once you've sold your crypto, and its sitting in fiat in your exchange (Binance, Kracken etc) - how easy is it to make the transfer from the exchange to your bank account?

You need to know exactly what you are doing - which Exchange works for which Bank etc.

For example Binance or Kraken to Mashreq or ENBD is payment refuse and if happen more often - account closure.

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

For example Binance or Kraken to Mashreq or ENBD is payment refuse and if happen more often - account closure.

Strange? I never had any issue transferring crypto from Kraken to NBD (Mashreq, I understand as it's a s**t bank) but What issues did you receive with NBD that made you say that!?