Question Spaniard - Crypto - Exit strategy - 7 figures

[FreeBit]

Hello,
I'm new here and I would like to ask you if I'm on the right path with the exit strategy I'm working on.

First, bit of background.
Get into cryptos on 2013, been trading alts for all this time.
As you can imagine I made big money on 2017 but after that I've lost 99% of it.
I had money on cryptsy, mintpal, cryptopia and a few other exchanges that disapeared, meaning I have no way to proof part of the loses I had.
I expect to be back to the seven figures this year. Not even close to it now but I know what a crypto bull year can make.

Point is. I want to move to a low/free tax country and use a cryptofriendly bank to deposit my profits (atleast the money I want to use the next 4 years).

This is the strategy I'm working on:
A) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + Cyprus cryptofriendly bank account
B) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + Swiss company + swiss cryptofriendly bank account
C) Cyprus non-dom residency (with a dormant company) + UAE company + UAE bank account
D) UAE residency + UAE company + UAE bank account
E) Please add some options you guys would consider

Would this work?

 

[FreeBit]

You have to ask yourself: why additional headache?

It's again so many do's and dont's - bureaucracy, accounting and so on.

What we do sometimes is to setup a bank account in Switzerland for a client that have already setup his Dubai Company with residence. We always say if you want to overpay for a privat bank in Switzerland to have a good fealing - of course why not if you feal better with an overpriced Bank in Switzerland.

Take a look at this thread:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/any-good-setups-in-switzerland.30453/page-4#post-163821

Sorry for asking too much but since I don't have any experience with taxes abroad I'm a total noob
I understand that opening a swiss bank account once you have the dubai one doesn't make sense.
however, being a swiss resident allows me to be considered from spain as expat and forgeting about paying more taxes in spain.
in switzerland I can fullfil the form 030 and just let spain know that they should forget about me. can i do that in dubai too?

 

[Fred]

Sorry for asking too much but since I don't have any experience with taxes abroad I'm a total noob
I understand that opening a swiss bank account once you have the dubai one doesn't make sense.
however, being a swiss resident allows me to be considered from spain as expat and forgeting about paying more taxes in spain.
in switzerland I can fullfil the form 030 and just let spain know that they should forget about me. can i do that in dubai too?

Why doesn't make opening a Switzerland bank account doesn't make sense if the account is opened with the UAE residence? Diversification outside UAE makes always sense.

In UAE you don't have to fullfil anything. As soon as you move Spain will have to forget about you.

Don't get it why so many europeans simply don't go the UAE route because it seems to easy to them.

 

[troubled soul]

Why doesn't make opening a Switzerland bank account doesn't make sense if the account is opened with the UAE residence? Diversification outside UAE makes always sense.

In UAE you don't have to fullfil anything. As soon as you move Spain will have to forget about you.

Don't get it why so many europeans simply don't go the UAE route because it seems to easy to them.

Very true So many Europeans here and on other platform doing so much research on tax saving and other topics .
They simply solve it by moving to UAE.
I do not why so many Europeans have taboo for UAE

 

[FreeBit]

Why doesn't make opening a Switzerland bank account doesn't make sense if the account is opened with the UAE residence? Diversification outside UAE makes always sense.

In UAE you don't have to fullfil anything. As soon as you move Spain will have to forget about you.

Don't get it why so many europeans simply don't go the UAE route because it seems to easy to them.

As soon as I move and stay 183 days? In case it's not needed to stay 183 days, should I let Spain know by Form030 that I'm no longer a fiscal resident in Spain?

you've said it, it looks so simple that from my point of view it cannot be true. I'm used to this hell that UAE seems too beautiful

 

[troubled soul]

As soon as I move and stay 183 days? In case it's not needed to stay 183 days, should I let Spain know by Form030 that I'm no longer a fiscal resident in Spain?

you've said it, it looks so simple that from my point of view it cannot be true. I'm used to this hell that UAE seems too beautiful

Can you explain "hell that UAE" ?

I am really curious.

 

[Fred]

As soon as I move and stay 183 days? In case it's not needed to stay 183 days, should I let Spain know by Form030 that I'm no longer a fiscal resident in Spain?

you've said it, it looks so simple that from my point of view it cannot be true. I'm used to this hell that UAE seems too beautiful

Well the UAE trys to make everything to let the desert look more attractive to foreigners.

You are too european with your thoughts.

Why making it spain that easy? You planning a world trip and say good bye to spain - if you really want to mention something to them.

That's it.

 

[xxx19980416]

As before mentioned - due to local UAE bank account opening with residence visa - the local UAE bank consider you as UAE resident and doesn't report under CRS - that's the key and main advantage of UAE setup.

Link:
https://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-...sistance/residence-citizenship-by-investment/

That's not true.

The rent in UAE is the same like in Bangkok and Tbilisi or even Panama.

From your mentioned above is UAE and Panama the most business oriented places. Do you really want to bank 7 figures in Georgia or even Thailand? Do you were ever to Georgia? I was and I can't imagine how somebody can put 7 figures there.

There is a reason why the king of thailand is living the whole year in Munich, Germany. Thailand can easily be a tax trap but most people get away with it because of lack of enforcement.

Panama has a very bad reputation from the past that's a fact. Some people say here you can bank with banks from Venezuela. Again do you want to bank 7 figures in Venezuela or a Venezuela Branch in Panama?

Simple reputation test: ask your mother what she have heard about Dubai and what about Panama. Let us know her answer.

Thanks for answer, Yes these countries would be a problem for large amount of banking, I understand putting 7 figure in Georgian or Panamanian bank will makes me feel unsafe.
I will consider UAE options seriously.

 

[FreeBit]

Well the UAE trys to make everything to let the desert look more attractive to foreigners.

You are too european with your thoughts.

Why making it spain that easy? You planning a world trip and say good bye to spain - if you really want to mention something to them.

That's it.

Understood, not helping them will help me avoid consecuences.
I've been reading that I need a local partner for my UAE company. Is that correct?

 

[Mr Gus]

Understood, not helping them will help me avoid consecuences.
I've been reading that I need a local partner for my UAE company. Is that correct?

No, for a free zone company you don't. And they changed laws for mainland companies as well so you don't need a local partner anymore (not sure when this well come into effect, I believe they are having a 1 year transitioning period).

Right now go for a Freezone company, Fred just setup mine yesterday.

 

[fluffypanda]

You should leave the EU.

• If you want to build a business or continue working consider UAE, Singapore, or S America.
• If you can retire and sit on a beach sipping cocktails, why not the Caribbean?

Also, have you consider resetting your Capital Gains basis? Which entails moving to a low tax jurisdiction, selling your crypto either for fiat or using a stablecoin, then buying it back a month later. Thus resetting the original cost of your crypto.

 

[FreeBit]

You should leave the EU.

• If you want to build a business or continue working consider UAE, Singapore, or S America.
• If you can retire and sit on a beach sipping cocktails, why not the Caribbean?

Also, have you consider resetting your Capital Gains basis? Which entails moving to a low tax jurisdiction, selling your crypto either for fiat or using a stablecoin, then buying it back a month later. Thus resetting the original cost of your crypto.

I don't want to build a business
I don't want to continue working
I don't want to be a full time retiree on the beach
I just to want enjoy life traveling, doing sports, being on the beach and managing my investments

What would be the best destination for that?

 

[FreeBit]

Well the UAE trys to make everything to let the desert look more attractive to foreigners.

You are too european with your thoughts.

Why making it spain that easy? You planning a world trip and say good bye to spain - if you really want to mention something to them.

That's it.

I've read that I need to be 183 days in there to get the TAX residency. Is that true?

 

[RustCohle]

This thread is very interesting, I am also exploring ways to cash out/move some gains into real estate. This UAE solution sounds promising, however I don't have any business plan. If I just set up a simple drop shipping website business can I get a resident visa in UAE easily? Or do I have to present a solid business plan/actually make the business work? I'm a EU citizen if that matters.

 

[Fred]

This thread is very interesting, I am also exploring ways to cash out/move some gains into real estate. This UAE solution sounds promising, however I don't have any business plan. If I just set up a simple drop shipping website business can I get a resident visa in UAE easily? Or do I have to present a solid business plan/actually make the business work? I'm a EU citizen if that matters.

In case you just want to cashout crypto profits we do the business plan for you including website and processing history for E-Commerce like you mentioned. The payouts will be considered as merchant payouts by the local UAE banks. You are already thinking in the right direction - everything else is our work as a service provider but always good to have clients to work with that can already imagine how things work out in practice.

 

[Fred]

I've read that I need to be 183 days in there to get the TAX residency. Is that true?

To get a tax residence certificate in theory but not in pratice due to our experience and even with COVID the Gov is much more lenient on many things like such requirements.

 

[FreeBit]

In case you just want to cashout crypto profits we do the business plan for you including website and processing history for E-Commerce like you mentioned. The payouts will be considered as merchant payouts by the local UAE banks. You are already thinking in the right direction - everything else is our work as a service provider but always good to have clients to work with that can already imagine how things work out in practice.

Sounds good for someone who has stolen btc but I don't see the need to use that "workarounds" to don't pay taxes on something I've earn legally...
Also good luck dealing with EU goverments proving you're not longer tax resident in your origin country without a tax residency anywhere else...
And why would you live in a desert when you can do it in a mediterranean place for half the cost?
For the seven figures bank issue it can be solved as long as is not all your wealth. Suisse banks are always happy to accept new money and there are some crypto friendly banks as long as you can proof the origin of funds.
About the Dubai Life Style I think is not for me. I prefer to be biking in the mountain or surfing than going to the mall with a lambo. Guess each one has it's priorities...

 

[Fred]

Sounds good for someone who has stolen btc but I don't see the need to use that "workarounds" to don't pay taxes on something I've earn legally...
Also good luck dealing with EU goverments proving you're not longer tax resident in your origin country without a tax residency anywhere else...
And why would you live in a desert when you can do it in a mediterranean place for half the cost?
For the seven figures bank issue it can be solved as long as is not all your wealth. Suisse banks are always happy to accept new money and there are some crypto friendly banks as long as you can proof the origin of funds.
About the Dubai Life Style I think is not for me. I prefer to be biking in the mountain or surfing than going to the mall with a lambo. Guess each one has it's priorities...

I see - that's your personal opinion and that's fine.

I don't know what Switzerland Banks have to do with a Business Setup in Dubai that grants you a 0% tax residence.

There is no mediterranean place with 0% tax that grants you that easy and cheap a residence visa.

And regarding the crypto cashout there are many people that simply have lost there original Exchange Account, the Exchange isn't life any longer etc. - be fair and give some people a chance as well.

 

[FreeBit]

I see - that's your personal opinion and that's fine.

I don't know what Switzerland Banks have to do with a Business Setup in Dubai that grants you a 0% tax residence.

There is no mediterranean place with 0% tax that grants you that easy and cheap a residence visa.

And regarding the crypto cashout there are many people that simply have lost there original Exchange Account, the Exchange isn't life any longer etc. - be fair and give some people a chance as well.

That's for everyone has to look for his personal best option.

Swiss banks have nothing to do with the Business Setup in Dubai, you can open an account in your name and they will be understandable with the proof of origin of funds because they do understand what has happended in the cryptospace and do know that most of the people has suffered the problem you mention.

In EU you have Cyprus with 0% capital gains which includes cryptos for now. Don't know how long it wil last.

About Dubai, i find it a good way to solve the problem too but I don't want to expend 6 months there and I don't want tax inspectors from my country asking which is the place where I have expend most time this year, where do I have my center of interest (which cannot be Dubai if I expend 2 days per year) and so on. I do understand that dubai tax autorities won't be a problem and that are very helpful but you need to undestand that tax authorities from EU are big motherfuckers and the first step has to be done "properly".

 

[Fred]

That's for everyone has to look for his personal best option.

Swiss banks have nothing to do with the Business Setup in Dubai, you can open an account in your name and they will be understandable with the proof of origin of funds because they do understand what has happended in the cryptospace and do know that most of the people has suffered the problem you mention.

In EU you have Cyprus with 0% capital gains which includes cryptos for now. Don't know how long it wil last.

About Dubai, i find it a good way to solve the problem too but I don't want to expend 6 months there and I don't want tax inspectors from my country asking which is the place where I have expend most time this year, where do I have my center of interest (which cannot be Dubai if I expend 2 days per year) and so on. I do understand that dubai tax autorities won't be a problem and that are very helpful but you need to undestand that tax authorities from EU are big motherfuckers and the first step has to be done "properly".

Yes as a German I know what you are talking about. I live since 2016 in Dubai and can only say that I meanwhile receive the tax certificate with staying 3-4 times a year for 1-2 weeks in Dubai was sufficient to get the tax residence certificat. Just do your research about it and talk to local lawyers in Dubai they will mention you the same. So if the 183 days being in Dubai is currently your only show stopper then you should dig deeper and see how it works in practice.

 

[FreeBit]

Hi, this thread is a really interesting topic and most replies speak facts. To be honest i dealt personally with this for a few of my clients lately (in the crypto space). The solution isn't really simple but neither complicated
You just need a solid combination of a few things mentioned and you are good to go. Indeed Spanish, Greek, Italian tax authorities are the most difficult to dealt with but not impossible if you do something "reasonable"
Ill happily advise you (it's impossible to go into detail in a post thread)
P.S. i am fully biased since i have been working with uk, dubai, Cyprus, Switzerland for the past 12 years.
Hope this is helpful

What is the reasonable setup for you? Do you advise or have the full package of creating what is needed?