Safe Havens for Bitcoin During a Banking Crisis?

[run]

I'm too attentive to detail...
View attachment 7803

looks like the topic was already posted.I fully agree with him

 

[cryptofriendly]

and you belive in santa claus heh ?

seriously you think institutions like blackrock would open hedge funds with billions in it for bitcoin not knowing who owns the 5% or the possibility that this "person" could tank the price anytime he wants to

Seriously i'm asking myself how naive people can be in beliving Blackrock would allow such a situation

Blackrock doesn't know how many BTC are on my paper wallet. They just know the wallet id, but not the owner.

Especially in the time around 2010-11, where pretty much everyone on bitcointalk was mining BTC on their self-build rig, or even a simple PC (I was mining on a spare laptop, and making something like 0.2 BTC a day at the beginning, which was something like $0.80 / day then. All numbers just from my memory), there is lots of BTC that is anonymous and never have been moved. And I believe that huge amount of it is already out of circulation/will be out of circulation in the future because of lost keys, owner death, etc. My BTC will be out of circulation after my death as well, that's the least I can do to help to limit the supply and increase the price. ;-).

 

[JackAlabama]

and you belive in santa claus heh ?

no, you do obv.

funds get paid on commission and/or aum, so high prices preferred.

 

[wellington]

here is lots of BTC that is anonymous and never have been moved.

Partially true I remember the method for buying was rather tedious in 2010

You had to transfer funds to PayPal 4 days from PayPal to Virwox 1-2 days vireox to linden dollars, then exchange linden dollars for btc and withdraw

Mining was much easier -

Having said that ANON is one good thing about that era but you could cross reference mining IPs against network providers for the time period and back fill if pronation on who mined rather easily due to data retention laws - that would go some way back, likewise multiple third party processors retained data that will again provide routes to track.

We keep ours on the balance sheet pricing up but don’t trade - one day loan out as a EURODOLLAR like loan when BTC becomes a reserve asset - repaid in BTC naturally to increase the stack.

FYI BTC wasn't a investment back then - anyone telling you it was is lying

It was a means of payment internationally for legal and illegal goods

Interesting timing from George.

 

[run]

Blackrock doesn't know how many BTC are on my paper wallet. They just know the wallet id, but not the owner.

Especially in the time around 2010-11, where pretty much everyone on bitcointalk was mining BTC on their self-build rig, or even a simple PC (I was mining on a spare laptop, and making something like 0.2 BTC a day at the beginning, which was something like $0.80 / day then. All numbers just from my memory), there is lots of BTC that is anonymous and never have been moved. And I believe that huge amount of it is already out of circulation/will be out of circulation in the future because of lost keys, owner death, etc. My BTC will be out of circulation after my death as well, that's the least I can do to help to limit the supply and increase the price. ;-).

ROFL thez know 99.9% of all owners.you bought via internet they high probably know you.you hide via diffrent tools you will high probably big troubles to exchange

bitcoin

Partially true I remember the method for buying was rather tedious in 2010

You had to transfer funds to PayPal 4 days from PayPal to Virwox 1-2 days vireox to linden dollars, then exchange linden dollars for btc and withdraw

Mining was much easier -

Having said that ANON is one good thing about that era but you could cross reference mining IPs against network providers for the time period and back fill if pronation on who mined rather easily due to data retention laws - that would go some way back, likewise multiple third party processors retained data that will again provide routes to track.

We keep ours on the balance sheet pricing up but don’t trade - one day loan out as a EURODOLLAR like loan when BTC becomes a reserve asset - repaid in BTC naturally to increase the stack.

FYI BTC wasn't a investment back then - anyone telling you it was is lying

It was a means of payment internationally for legal and illegal goods

Interesting timing from George.

is a scam for western people.people will have a bad awekening.BRICS will go to virtual money linked to gold where the west will go to virtua money backed by nothing.Once this fail we will go the same route like BRICS

 

[cryptofriendly]

ROFL thez know 99.9% of all owners.you bought via internet they high probably know you.you hide via diffrent tools you will high probably big troubles to exchange

I see that you haven't really comprehended my reply, as I mentioned mining not buying.

Nevertheless, I have no idea where you live, but here I can just cash out anonymous at multiple shops with a minuscule commission (Chinese enterprising 'businessmen', safe shop location, no id necessary, no questions asked, cash) , or just do P2P with 0.1% spread straight to the bank (or in person) in USD.

No BIG, BIG TROUBLES here, LOL. You must have trouble sleeping my friend.

 

[wellington]

FYI, if truly concerned about a systemic banking crisis (not individual crisis of a individual bank) then 3,000 Billion $ is key, below that (currently, will change - in the future - perhaps a year or so) is when the banking system (systemically) will start to buckle.

Liabilities and Capital: Other Factors Draining Reserve Balances: Reserve Balances with Federal Reserve Banks: Week Average

is a scam for western people.people will have a bad awekening.BRICS will go to virtual money linked to gold where the west will go to virtua money backed by nothing.Once this fail we will go the same route like BRICS

Honestly no clue what you are saying here.

 

[jesuschrist]

FYI BTC wasn't a investment back then - anyone telling you it was is lying

I strongly disagree with that, BTC has been an investment since the very beginning.
The reason people moved from investing L$ in Second Life to bitcoin because they could make much more on bitcoin projects.
The return was higher investing BTC in a Dice websites and get a share from the house profit than investing L$ in SL casino houses.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4464504.0People said the ponzi operator pirateat40 collected 500-700k BTC by offering daily 1%.
I almost sent this guy 100 BTC, thankfully my friend talked me out of it, I was just a stupid kid that time and I thought that looks fun and in 100 days I can withdraw 200 BTC so why not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NxtYou could invest in pre-sale altcoins like NXT, the dev collected only 21 bitcoin and gave the total supply to the investors.
Someone who invested just 1 BTC in that could sell their NXT for 1000 BTC just after launch, the ROI was insane, on the highest around 1 million % for the early investors.

There were so many investment opportunities, now only scam meme launches and Binance launchpads, they hold like 80% of the total supply, pumping up the price and slowly dumping on their users.

Sure there were fanatics like Roger Ver who hold a grudge against Uncle Sam, or Max Keiser against the FED and banks, and a few percent trading illegal goods.
90% in Bitcoin don't care about freedome, they just want to make more $.

 

[JackAlabama]

I strongly disagree with that, BTC has been an investment since the very beginning.
The reason people moved from investing L$ in Second Life to bitcoin because they could make much more on bitcoin projects.
The return was higher investing BTC in a Dice websites and get a share from the house profit than investing L$ in SL casino houses.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4464504.0People said the ponzi operator pirateat40 collected 500-700k BTC by offering daily 1%.
I almost sent this guy 100 BTC, thankfully my friend talked me out of it, I was just a stupid kid that time and I thought that looks fun and in 100 days I can withdraw 200 BTC so why not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NxtYou could invest in pre-sale altcoins like NXT, the dev collected only 21 bitcoin and gave the total supply to the investors.
Someone who invested just 1 BTC in that could sell their NXT for 1000 BTC just after launch, the ROI was insane, on the highest around 1 million % for the early investors.

There were so many investment opportunities, now only scam meme launches and Binance launchpads, they hold like 80% of the total supply, pumping up the price and slowly dumping on their users.

Sure there were fanatics like Roger Ver who hold a grudge against Uncle Sam, or Max Keiser against the FED and banks, and a few percent trading illegal goods.

ver went offboard launching his own shitcoin. He suffered from bitcoin derangement syndrome

 

[wellington]

The reason people moved from investing L$ in Second Life to bitcoin because they could make much more on bitcoin projects.
The return was higher investing BTC in a Dice websites and get a share from the house profit than investing L$ in SL casino houses.

You could invest in pre-sale altcoins like NXT, the dev collected only 21 bitcoin and gave the total supply to the investors.
Someone who invested just 1 BTC in that could sell their NXT for 1000 BTC just after launch, the ROI was insane, on the highest around 1 million % for the early investors.

I was just having this discussion with a friend earlier today, this is the problem with unaccredited people.

They don't know the difference between 'investing' and 'speculating'.

This was not investing in Bitcoin, it was a vehicle, this was not investing in these protocols / projects, this is called speculating/gambling.

It always makes me smile, when i hear about x or y saying they invested in d or o and you ask them what they invested and they say i invested xyz token into b project with a value of 500$, 1,000$ etc - Nah bro you gambled.

The difference between gambling/speculating and investing mainly revolves around the level of risk, purpose, strategy, and expected outcomes. Here's a breakdown:

1. Purpose and Intent:​

• Gambling/Speculating: The primary intent is to make quick profits based on short-term price movements or events. In gambling, it's often entirely based on chance (e.g., roulette, sports betting). Speculating, though sometimes based on market trends or educated guesses, is still a high-risk activity that aims to capitalize on volatile movements.
• Investing: The goal is long-term wealth creation by buying assets that are expected to grow in value over time. Investing is generally based on thorough research, fundamental analysis, and a strategic approach to building wealth over a longer period.

2. Risk Level:​

• Gambling/Speculating: The risk is extremely high. In gambling, outcomes are almost entirely uncertain, and the odds are often skewed against the player. In speculation, risks are high because the focus is often on unpredictable or volatile markets.
• Investing: While all investments carry some degree of risk, the level of risk in investing can be managed through diversification, research, and careful decision-making. Generally, investors expect more consistent returns over the long term.

3. Time Horizon:​

• Gambling/Speculating: The time frame is usually short. Gamblers expect immediate results, and speculators typically aim for quick profits within days, weeks, or months.
• Investing: Investing is oriented toward the long term, often years or decades. Investors buy assets like stocks, bonds, or real estate with the belief that their value will increase steadily over time.

4. Knowledge and Research:​

• Gambling/Speculating: While professional gamblers or speculators may use skill or knowledge to improve their chances, the outcome is still highly uncertain and heavily influenced by luck or short-term trends.
• Investing: Successful investing requires significant research and understanding of the markets, the companies or assets being invested in, and economic factors. Investors make informed decisions based on financial data, analysis, and trends.

5. Return on Investment (ROI) Expectation:​

• Gambling/Speculating: There’s potential for very high returns, but the likelihood of significant losses is also high. In gambling, odds are often against the participant, and over time, consistent profits are unlikely. In speculation, returns may be large but come with substantial risk.
• Investing: Returns are typically slower but more stable. Long-term investors expect compounded growth over time, whether from capital appreciation, dividends, or interest. Returns may be lower in the short term but are more predictable and reliable over the long term.

6. Control over Outcome:​

• Gambling/Speculating: Little to no control over the outcome. In gambling, it's pure chance (random outcomes like in lotteries or slot machines), and in speculating, market fluctuations are often unpredictable and driven by external factors.
• Investing: Investors can influence outcomes by making informed choices about which assets to invest in, when to buy or sell, and how to diversify their portfolio. While not entirely in control, they have a better chance of shaping their success through decisions and strategy.

7. Psychology:​

• Gambling/Speculating: Emotional highs and lows are common due to the quick, often volatile results. This can lead to addictive behaviors and impulsive decisions.
• Investing: Investing is usually driven by a rational, disciplined approach. Emotional control is critical, and successful investors avoid making decisions based on fear or greed.

Summary:​

• Gambling/Speculating is high-risk, short-term, and often based on chance or volatile market conditions. While it can offer high rewards, it usually comes with higher risk of significant losses.
• Investing is more strategic, long-term, and risk-managed. It aims to build wealth gradually, with decisions based on research and analysis. While risk is still present, it’s typically lower and more controlled compared to gambling or speculating.

ver went offboard launching his own shitcoin. He suffered from bitcoin derangement syndrome

I feel rather sorry for the fella, can't seem to leave hotel California (US)

 

[dirtyharry]

That means you all swear to Bitcoins over any bank in the world ?

 

[JackAlabama]

That means you all swear to Bitcoins over any bank in the world ?

yes, as banks can kyc rug you anytime they want. That might wont happen if you have a normal (ie low paying) job in your birth country.
Anything above that risk level and you gotta at least think about it.

 

[wellington]

That means you all swear to Bitcoins over any bank in the world ?

I) funds for tax = fiat digital money (filthy fiat)
2) funds for savings = bitcoin
3) funds for living = stablecoins / cash (non filthy fiat)

 

[jesuschrist]

This was not investing in Bitcoin, it was a vehicle, this was not investing in these protocols / projects, this is called speculating/gambling.

You are right my mistake, in these examples Bitcoin is just an investment vehicle, not really direclty purely investment in Bitcoin.

I feel rather sorry for the fella, can't seem to leave hotel California (US)

I'm sure he is doing okay, funny that the early people who believed in bitcoin as a defense against governments made higher returns compared to people who thought about it as just an investment.

 

[dirtyharry]

There is still a ultra high risk to loose your investment in Bitcoins because of the price to be that high now.

Back years ago where the bitcoin was only 1000$ or below it wasn't that much of a risk, and for those who have had them from that time it is not a risk at all today. But for noobs into this biz it can be a huge risk to put 60K or more into bitcoin right now.

 

[turmpy]

Bitcoin is an awesome investment opportunity but you need to play it with full risk.

 

[AlicaFunk]

I) funds for tax = fiat digital money (filthy fiat)
2) funds for savings = bitcoin
3) funds for living = stablecoins / cash (non filthy fiat)

very good order to do list

 

[JohnnyDoe]

There is still an ultra high risk to loose your investment in Bitcoins because of the price to be that high now.

Please explain the risk of one Bitcoin becoming zero Bitcoin.

Back years ago where the bitcoin was only 1000$ or below it wasn't that much of a risk,

If you like to convert btc into USD for some perverse reason, from 30 November 2013 to 14 January 2015 the exchange rate went from $1,163 to $152.

and for those who have had them from that time it is not a risk at all today. But for noobs into this biz it can be a huge risk to put 60K or more into bitcoin right now.

Yes, you must have been crazy to buy btc at 1,000 in 2013, you saw what happened in just one year

 

[wellington]

There is still a ultra high risk to loose your investment in Bitcoins because of the price to be that high now.

Back years ago where the bitcoin was only 1000$ or below it wasn't that much of a risk, and for those who have had them from that time it is not a risk at all today. But for noobs into this biz it can be a huge risk to put 60K or more into bitcoin right now.

Disagree - only someone speculating / gambling and doesn’t understand the economics of what is driving its generic rise over time opposed to its volatile speculation driven rallies would say such a thing

Please explain the risk of one Bitcoin becoming zero Bitcoin.

If you like to convert btc into USD for some perverse reason, from 30 November 2013 to 14 January 2015 the exchange rate went from $1,163 to $152.

Yes, you must have been crazy to buy btc at 1,000 in 2013, you saw what happened in just one year

Think for me it was 30 cent range but that wasn’t accounting all the fucking fees back then from PayPal, and virwox

The only reason I keep them was because the price crashed if memory serves and I had bought too many for a job (white hat hacker in those days - script kiddy today terms).

 

[cryptofriendly]

There is still a ultra high risk to loose your investment in Bitcoins because of the price to be that high now.

Back years ago where the bitcoin was only 1000$ or below it wasn't that much of a risk, and for those who have had them from that time it is not a risk at all today. But for noobs into this biz it can be a huge risk to put 60K or more into bitcoin right now.

LOL, and again LOL. Are you for real? 60K after halving isn't risky, it's a gift right now, if your time horizon is 2-12 months.

There is ultra high risk of death for every human being, the probability is 100% for it to happen some day.
Personally, I see the risk as higher than "losing your investment in bitcoin'.
BTW: How do you measure risk and which units do you use?

Please google some words like 'network effect', 'price satoshi', 'not buying full bitcoin', 'btc etf', 'fractional bitcoin', 'hedging via options', 'institutional investment', 'risk reward' and come back later.

Or at least read through this please (even just reading that short website preview here you can get the core message):
https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoins-network-effect/