Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

[FantomOffshore]

You just need to watch a map and use common sense to understand what is going on on the ground and decipher what is going on on the media.
The leader of the free world explained everything with a single world: Asufutimaehaehfutbw

I always find these statements funny. The world increases exponentially in complexity each and every year, the notion that "common sense" (not that common, since most people are idiots) can be used to correctly understand what is going on is completely absurd. Common sense or should I say logical thinking, however, is that one person having assumed full control over a country by the use of fear, is much better equipped to industrially twist reality than the leaders bound by rules and the press. Then, if we simplify the world and assume that both sides try to to twist and distort as much as possible, we can conclude that the "reality" portrayed by the totalitarian side, is far more distorted than the hue of realities offered by the West. Then, using common sense, we can safely say that reality is closer to the opposite of Russian media, than the opposite of Western media, thus making the Western media more realistic. Sadly, this means that if you truly believe the Russian media, it doesn't bode well for your general ability to understand complex and opaque situations.

 

[BalnearioCamboriu]

Then, if we simplify the world and assume that both sides try to to twist and distort as much as possible, we can conclude that the "reality" portrayed by the totalitarian side, is far more distorted than the hue of realities offered by the West.

You've made 2 assumptions: a) Russia is totalitarism b) West is democrasy

Where did you get them from? What proves them?

---
Actually, the West can easier get away with more lie and distortion of reality and hypocrasy because it calls itself a democrasy and Russia totalitarism. Which isn't the case, but it does so.

Therefore, no matter what may happen, what kind of sh!t West and US may do to Russia or the world this week or month again, they'll at the end always resort to an argument of:

"We -- the West and US -- are good and right because we're democrasy. They - Russia - are bad and wrong because they're totalitarism"

They're assumptions and lie. The West may be more democratic in **some instancess** but it's not a democrasy. Nor is Russia a totalitarism.

---

For instance: remember the events during "the little 19 flu virus" in a) Europe (expect Sweden) b) Canada c) US

Apartheid. Tirany. Suppressing expression of truth. It was close to slavery times but than democrasy.

In Russia there a bit of it too, but it way better. And way better was it in Turkey, for instance. And in Latin America. In Africa.


Look at the current events. May you freely express your opinion about Russia in Europe, if you support Russia? No. How's that a democrasy? That's tirrany

**A lot of typos

A very simple and recent example of a lie and hypocrasy of US and West -- Nord Stream explosion.

Can democratic countries lie so bluntly? Not only lie but try to put a blame on Russia itself.
Or the fact the Ukranians having been bombing civilians in Donetsk? Or that Ukranians have used chemical weapons recently?


Democrasy and open speech, US and Western edition. Use only when it serves them.

 

[John Spectre]

Or the fact the Ukranians having been bombing civilians in Donetsk? Or that Ukranians have used chemical weapons recently?

What you so confidently state about 'fact', while not even taking into account that after mythical '8 years of Donbas bombings', Donetsk as a city fully alive and functioning, but at same time Mariupol was completely destroyed by the russians in a month, says that you do not take into account real facts much. Rabbit hole is your choice.

Fictional chemical weapons in Ukraine is the same direction.

Example of russian totalitarism are quite simple to check: go to square of any city in russia and stand for a few minutes with white paper handling. You would be packed by police immediately.
While world lived in locking during covid time 2 years, russia lives such locking in decades.

Look at the current events. May you freely express your opinion about Russia in Europe, if you support Russia? No. How's that a democrasy? That's tirrany

Sure you could.
For example this one fresh prorussia meeting in Berlin.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1629800999362654211

But what you CAN'T do its a for sure make a pro EU/Ukraine meeting in russia

 

[marioIT]

Sure you could.

I have a friend that watches all political tv shows in western europe pretty much... he sends me some cuts off those talk shows daily.
(he works in the field so it's part of his job too)
No matter how left or right leaning the tv show is, the moment an interviewed talks something pro russia and says or alludes that zelensky is a puppet, the host and the other guests start looking each other like a nuke bomb has detonated, they start to look at him weirdly as he's crazy, then they all start barking over him so he cannot end his argument/cannot be heard from home, the host will lower his mic volume or cut it short or throw in some ad time and change the topic and the guy, no matter how important he is, no matter if he's a nobel prize or academic professor of world's fame, he will be silenced, nobody will want to hear his opinion and he will be never seen on air again...

 

[John Spectre]

I have a friend that watches all political tv shows in western europe pretty much... he sends me some cuts off those talk shows daily.
(he works in the field so it's part of his job too)
No matter how left or right leaning the tv show is, the moment an interviewed talks something pro russia and says or alludes that zelensky is a puppet, the host and the other guests start looking each other like a nuke bomb has detonated, they start to look at him weirdly as he's crazy, then they all start barking over him so he cannot end his argument/cannot be heard from home, the host will lower his mic volume or cut it short or throw in some ad time and change the topic and the guy, no matter how important he is, no matter if he's a nobel prize or academic professor of world's fame, he will be silenced, nobody will want to hear his opinion and he will be never seen on air again...

First of all, my previous message showed that people COULD say something prorussian freely. It's fact noted on video.

Another topic it's if it have a sense to listen such prorussian people. When some retard start to tell 'zelenski puppet', '8years bombed dondas', 'biolab/chemical weapon in Ukraine' every adequate people noted that its a bulls**t and no sense to listen so stupid people or arguments. If in 2023 these questions even should be discussed by anyone - it clearly shows level of their knowledge.

Fully another topic if such prorussian guys started to say something logical. Just look to Trump or Musk. They are clearly prorussians in their words, but nobody shut up their mouth and don't sent to jail. Because these 2, even being prorussians, said logical things: not escalate to nuclear war, what to do when on Europe region 2 largest countries there have a biggest war from times of WW2, how to live in future where hundreds of thousand people from both side die, etc. No matter who win in war: russia or Ukraine, it's very complex situation that is literally similar to WW2 and it will be needed many years for 'fix' everything that was broken because of war.

It's very different to listen on public tv random crazy people who are said nonsense.
The same you could observe in these 80 pages thread. It was 100500 replies about 'zelenski puppet', without smart and clear discussion what to do in a future.

One more another topic, that russians are became modern facists. And even if it not noted in a law now, everything is going there. It's only matter of time, when prorussian slogans and narratives will be officially forbidden with going to same line with swastikas, nazis, etc.

 

[FantomOffshore]

Where did you get them from? What proves them?

Can you name Western nations where the generals have yachts? Echo of Moscow, Dozhd, New Times, and foreign news sources are all blocked in Russia after the war. BBC Russia, Voice of America, Deutsche Welle.

We've had RT on Youtube, which is pure Russian propaganda, for years now, and still. Just allowed because politicians don't understand technology.

"We -- the West and US -- are good and right because we're democrasy. They - Russia - are bad and wrong because they're totalitarism"

This world consists of leaders and followers, you also need to create a narrative for your electorate. Once again, most people are not too smart, you need to motivate them to be able to spend their tax money in a way that might be better in the long term.

It's not about being "good" or about being a democracy, it's simply that if one man can do as he wishes without checks and balances the chances of abuse of power are far greater.

Democracy is a backstop against the election of wicked men that can plunge a country single-handily into war or poverty. It's not that it is better or more ethical per se, it's just that by distributing power, volatility in legislation and the general direction of a country is decreased.

Look at the current events. May you freely express your opinion about Russia in Europe, if you support Russia? No. How's that a democrasy? That's tirrany

There are entire political parties in Europe that support Russia. I have acquaintances who actively support Russia and by drinking too much propaganda have a Russian flag in their homes now. They have never even been to Eastern Europe, it's all allowed here. Your statement shows that you know next to nothing about Western Europe.

I have a friend that watches all political tv shows in western europe pretty much... he sends me some cuts off those talk shows daily.

Who cares if Zelensky is a puppet or not? NATO would never invade Russia, but Russia would invade Ukraine. That's all you need to know.

Apart from that, who is this polyglot supernatural friend of yours? You do understand that the TV is by definition a channel aimed at average people who are not actually interested in Russia or politics? The TV is made to tell your electorate that you are not just pissing their money away on nothing because for some people even the most basic things like global warming are hard to understand.

In fact, coming back to your democracy vs totalitarianism statement, I think a despot system is far superior to a democracy. You just need to find someone who is totally not self-interested, incredibly intelligent, and extremely charming and confident. Also, resistant to flattery to not develop a god complex while effectively developing his country into a nirvana. Someone like that does not exist. Maybe one day we can have an AI control countries.

Use only when it serves them.

It would be so much more fun if the Russians would stop their self-aggrandizing, historical fairytale, noble superiority bulls**t society. The Soviet lie is still alive.

Instead, imagine joining the rest of Europe, playing nice, doing business, and making the entire continent twice as rich by working together. This entire war weakened Europe and strengthened the US and China a lot. At the same time, Russia accuses the West of pro-Americana dependence, well guess what, Russia is the biggest catalysator of this process.

Of course, you can also say, the US is actively stoking tensions because they don't actually want Russia to be closer to Europe, which is what makes the matter so incredibly complex. If that were what Putin cared about though, he would not have continuously destabilized neighboring countries and fed his electorate wild lies about Western Europe.

I hope to live to see a future where Russia and Europe bundle their strengths to reduce US dependence and start playing out the US and China against each other in a masterclass in Grand Strategy.

For the time being, Putin prefers to start wars and wreck my Eurasian stocks while he could have just been playing Europa Universalis IV on his bloody computer.

 

[polonieth]

Can you name Western nations where the generals have yachts? Echo of Moscow, Dozhd, New Times, and foreign news sources are all blocked in Russia after the war. BBC Russia, Voice of America, Deutsche Welle.

We've had RT on Youtube, which is pure Russian propaganda, for years now, and still. Just allowed because politicians don't understand technology.


This world consists of leaders and followers, you also need to create a narrative for your electorate. Once again, most people are not too smart, you need to motivate them to be able to spend their tax money in a way that might be better in the long term.

It's not about being "good" or about being a democracy, it's simply that if one man can do as he wishes without checks and balances the chances of abuse of power are far greater.

Democracy is a backstop against the election of wicked men that can plunge a country single-handily into war or poverty. It's not that it is better or more ethical per se, it's just that by distributing power, volatility in legislation and the general direction of a country is decreased.


There are entire political parties in Europe that support Russia. I have acquaintances who actively support Russia and by drinking too much propaganda have a Russian flag in their homes now. They have never even been to Eastern Europe, it's all allowed here. Your statement shows that you know next to nothing about Western Europe.



Who cares if Zelensky is a puppet or not? NATO would never invade Russia, but Russia would invade Ukraine. That's all you need to know.

Apart from that, who is this polyglot supernatural friend of yours? You do understand that the TV is by definition a channel aimed at average people who are not actually interested in Russia or politics? The TV is made to tell your electorate that you are not just pissing their money away on nothing because for some people even the most basic things like global warming are hard to understand.

In fact, coming back to your democracy vs totalitarianism statement, I think a despot system is far superior to a democracy. You just need to find someone who is totally not self-interested, incredibly intelligent, and extremely charming and confident. Also, resistant to flattery to not develop a god complex while effectively developing his country into a nirvana. Someone like that does not exist. Maybe one day we can have an AI control countries.



It would be so much more fun if the Russians would stop their self-aggrandizing, historical fairytale, noble superiority bulls**t society. The Soviet lie is still alive.

Instead, imagine joining the rest of Europe, playing nice, doing business, and making the entire continent twice as rich by working together. This entire war weakened Europe and strengthened the US and China a lot. At the same time, Russia accuses the West of pro-Americana dependence, well guess what, Russia is the biggest catalysator of this process.

Of course, you can also say, the US is actively stoking tensions because they don't actually want Russia to be closer to Europe, which is what makes the matter so incredibly complex. If that were what Putin cared about though, he would not have continuously destabilized neighboring countries and fed his electorate wild lies about Western Europe.

I hope to live to see a future where Russia and Europe bundle their strengths to reduce US dependence and start playing out the US and China against each other in a masterclass in Grand Strategy.

For the time being, Putin prefers to start wars and wreck my Eurasian stocks while he could have just been playing Europa Universalis IV on his bloody computer.

A lot of waffle but this sentence shows you don't understand what is going on:

"Instead, imagine joining the rest of Europe, playing nice, doing business, and making the entire continent twice as rich by working together. "

This is what has been happening. The European economies have thrived due to cheap Russian energy. Russia played nice with Europe for a long time. They even sold gas so cheaply to Germany that Germany could even resell it at a marked-up price, which Russia had no issue with.

All this, despite the continued expansion of NATO and the installation of a puppet hand-picked government in Ukraine. And they tried several times to resolve security issues diplomatically, see the new European security framework presented in December 2021. The military action in Ukraine was a last resort; it isn't some dictator simply waking up and wanting to conquer Europe.

Why have Merkel and Hollande now admitted that the Minsk accords were a sham, and only done to 'buy time'?

Why do you think the United States blew up Nordstream?

Only one side hasn't been playing nice, and it's the CFR and their vassal states in Europe.

 

[John Spectre]

Okay, to add variety to the boring prorusish messages aka 'zelenski puppet' (wonder why they repeat this stupid message each day? they think that after 1,000,000 repeats it become truth?)

we will introduce chapter "Oops, what happened?"
the opening of the section will be a message about the damage to the rare aircraft A-50. One more nail in the coffin of the ability of russians to have dominance in Ukraine air.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1629975102229184513

 

[FantomOffshore]

I find your point of view definitely more interesting than what I hear usual. To say that Russia has been playing nice is a bit ridiculous in my opinion though.

This is what has been happening. The European economies have thrived due to cheap Russian energy. Russia played nice with Europe for a long time. They even sold gas so cheaply to Germany that Germany could even resell it at a marked-up price, which Russia had no issue with.

Sure, cheap gas was definitely great for Europe. Don't forget the Dutch gas field was also supplying parts of that. And the European economies, a lot of them have large multinational oil champions that supplied plenty of oil.

To say that Russia has been playing nice by selling gas they otherwise wouldn't be selling while spreading propaganda and misinformation in Europe at every turn, destabilizing countries, hacking, legalising ransomware and extortion outside Russian-speaking countries at huge societal costs is a very large stretch of the imagination.

Russia tried very hard to give Europe the impression that it was playing nice, when it fact is wasn't at all. To think that the war is a method of last resort by Putin... he has been planning this for at least more than 10 years.

The problem is not about NATO or the threat of NATO (zero chance) invading Russia. The threat to Putin is a successful and democratic Ukraine undermining his own authoritarianism at home. He was and is rightfully scared of colour revolutions like the ones that occured in Georgia (Rose Revolution) and Ukraine (Yanukovich, Orange).

Secondly, at the time the existence of nuclear weapons outside of Russia necessitated a degree of Western involvement in security matters. An array of nuclear weapons remained in Ukraine (and also in Belarus and Kazakhstan) following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The problem of what to do with this arsenal was addressed in the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of December 5th 1994. The three post-Soviet states agreed to hand these nuclear weapons over to Russia. In return, they received security assurances from Russia, Britain and America, which all undertook to respect the sovereignty, independence and existing borders of Ukraine and the other two states. This provision was violated by Russia’s takeover of Crimea in March 2014.

This breakdown of the Budapest Memorandum left Ukraine in an awkward situation. It was unable to trust Russia’s word, but also had reason to doubt Western security guarantees. The idea of full-blooded membership of NATO appeared increasingly attractive but not necessarily more attainable.

Most pro-Russian media pays remarkably little attention to the ideals and political desires of people in countries that have experienced “people power” revolutions. Instead, they blame these on "outside forces" without presenting any evidence.

The proposal to expand NATO definitely did not help things, but to blame the West for this war goes too far.

 

[BalnearioCamboriu]

Europe and US have become disappointed and also scared that Russia has finally become powerful enough to return them all the sh!t they've done to it for last dozens of years. And that they now have to play by the rules, pay for the full price for everything.


Their sanctions that they deemed one of their most powerful weapon have failed for the whole world to see. And this also scares US and Europe. What advantage do they have now left if their 10k+ sanctions applied to this "country gas-station" hasn't worked, and even hurt themselves in return? If they even hasn't worked against this weak "country-gas-station"? And made Russia more independent.

The same goes for China and Iran as well as for Russia. And for other, more or less neutral countries, to some extent too.

Hence, histeria and agony of the West and US. Screaming. Yelling. "Putin this! Putin that! Russia this! China that! Iran! Sanctions! UN! We're right! You're wrong! Fear us!"

By the way, Putin doesn't even bother to blame anyone from the US and West.

That's all it is, isn't it?

 

[polonieth]

The entire European economy was built on cheap Russian gas, hence why it is now falling to bits. Germany has been deindustrialised, not because "Russia, Russia, Russia" but because that was the plan of Germany's 'allies'

Russia tried very hard to give Europe the impression that it was playing nice, when it fact is wasn't at all. To think that the war is a method of last resort by Putin... he has been planning this for at least more than 10 years.

Do you have some specific examples of where Russia has not played nice concerning being a trading partner to Europe? Energy contracts they have reneged on? Other foul play?

Why did the USA blow up Nordstream 2?

To say that Russia has been playing nice by selling gas they otherwise wouldn't be selling while spreading propaganda and misinformation in Europe at every turn, destabilizing countries, hacking, legalising ransomware and extortion outside Russian-speaking countries at huge societal costs is a very large stretch of the imagination.

Do you have any examples of Russian propaganda in Europe that have had a meaningful effect and countries they have destabilised? I can agree there is state-sponsored hacking going on, but much of it's also a psyop like the Russiagate saga.

The threat to Putin is a successful and democratic Ukraine undermining his own authoritarianism at home. He was and is rightfully scared of colour revolutions like the ones that occured in Georgia (Rose Revolution) and Ukraine (Yanukovich, Orange).

The 'revolutions' you talk of were US / NGO-backed uprisings. They weren't naturally occurring or 'people power'. The 04/05 orange revolution failed because the results were reversed, so the more forceful Maidan Coup was initiated. I recommend watching The Maidan Sniper Massacre by Oliver Stone and University of Ottawa professor Ivan Katchanovskif for a background on this.

How can Ukraine be successful and democratic when its government is installed by the United States and oligarchs like Kolomoisky effectively run it? Play the leaked Nuland phone call, she talks about who they plan to install, and surprise surprise, who gets there? It's the most corrupt country in Europe.

Putin's real fear is that NATO expansion into Ukraine will cause a geostrategic threat (control over energy pipelines, naval ports etc.), a direct military threat (planned recapture of Crimea and the Donbas republics), and a strategic military threat (NATO infrastructure and missile bases).

This is identical to why the US did not and would not accept Russian bases in Cuba, Mexico or Venezuela. The idea it's because "Ukraine being democratic" would destabilise his position is garbage.

The problem of what to do with this arsenal was addressed in the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of December 5th 1994. The three post-Soviet states agreed to hand these nuclear weapons over to Russia. In return, they received security assurances from Russia, Britain and America, which all undertook to respect the sovereignty, independence and existing borders of Ukraine and the other two states. This provision was violated by Russia’s takeover of Crimea in March 2014.

Russia's annexation of Crimea and supporting the de facto secession of Russian-speaking parts of Eastern directly responded to the Maidan Coup. It hosts a very important military base. I don't see how any other country in that position would act differently.

For a more general geopolitical background and the importance of Ukraine, I recommend reading “The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives.

 

[BalnearioCamboriu]

The problem is not about NATO or the threat of NATO (zero chance) invading Russia. The threat to Putin is a successful and democratic Ukraine undermining his own authoritarianism at home.

1) Have the chief commanders of NATO and the head of USA Pentagon promised you this? Or is it your crystall ball that tells you the feature and the plans of NATO and USA? If not, you're talking another portion of gibberish.

2) "Democratic Ukraine" -- except that it's not. Native russians have been discriminated in Donbass since 2014. Native russians, around 50 people, have been deliberately put on fire in Odessa in 2014.

This "democratic revolution" in 2014 and Maidan were nothing other that the events sponsored by USA and West, to install anti-Russian government to then turn Ukraine against Russia. Proof to all of this can be found in non-pro-russian articles, in the internet.

"Наши дети пойдут в школы, а их дети будут сидеть по подвалам" - used to say Poroshenko, ex Ukraine president.

Russian language has been prohibited in Ukraine in some cases and places, since 2014.

The churches too, as of recently. All kinds of s**t, that is.

And since 2022 there've been all kinds of tirany and totalitarism in Ukraine too. Which US and West will ignore all the while calling THAT democrasy


Moreover, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries too -- not only since 2022, but for dozens of years. And it's been admitted by pro-US-Western media multiple times in the past.

---

All in all, you're been reading wrong sources therefore making wrong conclusions, and even assuming that you're right and others are wrong.

 

[John Spectre]

All in all, you're been reading wrong sources.

As well as your one.
All your sencences was discussed in this thread and was debunked.
No sence do it again. Just even example with corruption level - Ukraine is literally in the middle of the world rating and in *better* position compared to the russia. It is proofed by links couple of pages previously in this thread.
100% of your arguments are same. They are nothing but part of russian propaganda and puts a lot of lies.

 

[FantomOffshore]

The entire European economy was built on cheap Russian gas, hence why it is now falling to bits. Germany has been deindustrialised, not because "Russia, Russia, Russia" but because that was the plan of Germany's 'allies'

What exactly is the Russian advantage of the European economy falling to bits? What's the point. I also think Germany was very short-sighted and am not a big fan in any way, especially not in the way they terrorized the ECB with their Bundesbank ideology. Their export economy was also boosted by an artificially low currency. They sticked to coal too long and I think they trusted Russia too much because of WOII guilt (among other things). If they had diversified their energy mix enough this would not have had too happen.

Putin's real fear is that NATO expansion into Ukraine will cause a geostrategic threat (control over energy pipelines, naval ports etc.), a direct military threat (planned recapture of Crimea and the Donbas republics), and a strategic military threat (NATO infrastructure and missile bases).

Not really, he is now stating the following himself: "They have one goal: to disband the former Soviet Union and its fundamental part - the Russian Federation," Putin told Rossiya 1 state television in an interview recorded on Wednesday but released on Sunday.

Putin said the West wanted to divide up Russia and then control the world's biggest producer of raw materials, a step, he said, that could well lead to the destruction of many of the peoples of Russia including the ethnic Russian majority.

This is just bulls**t, the idea that "the West" would invade the largest country on earth is laughable. Not ever would NATO invade Russia, no matter how many bases they have bordering Russia. And the constant threatening with nukes is pure gangster behaviour.

This is identical to why the US did not and would not accept Russian bases in Cuba, Mexico or Venezuela. The idea it's because "Ukraine being democratic" would destabilise his position is garbage.

That is a false comparison. If ICBM-ships move into the Baltic Sea they can strike all major cities of Russia at will. Mutual destruction is mutual destruction, this talk about bases is all drivel. I bet you don't even think NATO would ever invade Russia, the idea is bizarre, it would take years and years and years of preparation. It is more likely China would invade Siberia than for the EU or NATO to invade Ukraine.

Anyway, I will read that last book you recommended, thanks for the recommendation, don't have more time to write right now.

 

[polonieth]

What exactly is the Russian advantage of the European economy falling to bits? What's the point. I also think Germany was very short-sighted and am not a big fan in any way, especially not in the way they terrorized the ECB with their Bundesbank ideology. Their export economy was also boosted by an artificially low currency. They sticked to coal too long and I think they trusted Russia too much because of WOII guilt (among other things). If they had diversified their energy mix enough this would not have had too happen.



Not really, he is now stating the following himself: "They have one goal: to disband the former Soviet Union and its fundamental part - the Russian Federation," Putin told Rossiya 1 state television in an interview recorded on Wednesday but released on Sunday.

Putin said the West wanted to divide up Russia and then control the world's biggest producer of raw materials, a step, he said, that could well lead to the destruction of many of the peoples of Russia including the ethnic Russian majority.

This is just bulls**t, the idea that "the West" would invade the largest country on earth is laughable. Not ever would NATO invade Russia, no matter how many bases they have bordering Russia. And the constant threatening with nukes is pure gangster behaviour.



That is a false comparison. If ICBM-ships move into the Baltic Sea they can strike all major cities of Russia at will. Mutual destruction is mutual destruction, this talk about bases is all drivel. I bet you don't even think NATO would ever invade Russia, the idea is bizarre, it would take years and years and years of preparation. It is more likely China would invade Siberia than for the EU or NATO to invade Ukraine.

Anyway, I will read that last book you recommended, thanks for the recommendation, don't have more time to write right now.

Well, Putin is correct, the CFR wants regime change and wants to destabilise Russia because they are not a client state.

This isn't achieved by invasion or full-scale war, Nato would not stand a chance. It's achieved by nudge units and proxy wars, look how they deployed Navalny who is a CIA man. And now, look at how they are using Ukraine "to the last Ukrainian" in a bid to turn public opinion against Putin, where hopefully they'd get another Yeltzin in and return to russia of the early 90s.

I don't know if you've been to Russia, but it's been improving year on year. I can't say that of the USA, their infrastructure is in tatters.

You can see how the US works below:

 

[John Spectre]

The mystery of why Товарищ полониет is so pro-Russian is slowly unraveling...

Oh you are 100% right. Who can know more about internals and progress of russia that russians (even when they pretend to be Europeans like our 'friend')

 

[polonieth]

Oh you are 100% right. Who can know more about internals and progress of russia that russians (even when they pretend to be Europeans like our 'friend')

I have zero ties to Russia, in fact I have no dog in this fight. So I can look at it objectively. Not many on this thread have so far managed that unfortunately.

 

[Martin Everson]

I have zero ties to Russia, in fact I have no dog in this fight. So I can look at it objectively. Not many on this thread have so far managed that unfortunately.

I totally agree

 

[FantomOffshore]

I don't know if you've been to Russia, but it's been improving year on year. I can't say that of the USA, their infrastructure is in tatters.

I actually wanted to live in St. Petersburg for about a half-year, but then the war started, which also made my other target, Georgia, less attractive.

When it comes to the USA itself, I have visited quite sometimes. The Americans I love to do business with, but I would never want to life there. The culture, the food, not much is to my liking apart from the nature and the Americans themselves who are incredibly friendly.

The USA has some really pressing problems, nevertheless, the Pax Americana has made much of the world far richer and I guess this is one of my points.

My question to you is, wouldn't you think a non-Putin Russia that played along with the West or at least Europe would be far more powerful? Do you support Putin and his policies? By my reasoning, Russia could be far richer if it did not have Putin as president. What if a change of government was effected in Russia, and it would be Westernized a bit more. How bad would this be? What is this about, exactly? Is it Russia wanting to stay poor while jacking off to Stalin? You might not like the US, but what if it lifted European GDP by 50/60%?

Take a look at Europe for example, lots of countries have arguably been influenced by American culture the most, and it has creeped everywhere into the societies. However, there seems to be a backstop in how far a country will adopt American culture. I would bet most Italian teenagers now listen to American pop-music and watch Netflix, however, they are still deeply Italian. Same goes for all other European nationalities I have encountered be it Germany, Greece, Austria, France, Serbia etc.

If we take a look at countries in former Yugoslavia, they seem to be doing pretty well these days. Same with Poland, Baltic countries etc. In my opinion, Putin is holding his people hostage for the sake of him being the main actor in a grand story of him reclaiming the “glory” of the USSR. What the USA hates is Putin, not Russia.

If you are objective and have no dogs in this fight, what is your reason for supporting Putin in all of this? You just really hate the US? You like business to be bad and high inflation?

 

[polonieth]

I actually wanted to live in St. Petersburg for about a half-year, but then the war started, which also made my other target, Georgia, less attractive.

When it comes to the USA itself, I have visited quite sometimes. The Americans I love to do business with, but I would never want to life there. The culture, the food, not much is to my liking apart from the nature and the Americans themselves who are incredibly friendly.

The USA has some really pressing problems, nevertheless, the Pax Americana has made much of the world far richer and I guess this is one of my points.

My question to you is, wouldn't you think a non-Putin Russia that played along with the West or at least Europe would be far more powerful?

Russia is becoming more powerful as we speak, so no. The idea that everyone is on the side of Ukraine is nonsense, most of the world wants to work with Russia and do business with them. They are building strategic partnerships daily.

Who would want to work with Europe when Merkel and Hollande admitted they sign agreements (Minsk) that they have no intention of keeping?

Who would trust the United States when they commit an act of war against an ally by blowing up critical infrastructure?

I think a non Putin Russia would be dangerous, because Putin is not some crazed dictator, he is balanced and moderate. If you replaced him right now you may get some war hawk instead. And then stuff does get interesting.

And Russia has worked perfectly fine with Europe up until now. In fact, too well which is why the USA blew up Nordstream II.

The USA doesn't want to work with other countries, they want their hegemony and you're either a client state or an enemy.

Look at them bussing in agitators into Hungary to talk about 'democracy'

Do you support Putin and his policies? By my reasoning, Russia could be far richer if it did not have Putin as president. What if a change of government was effected in Russia, and it would be Westernized a bit more. How bad would this be? What is this about, exactly? Is it Russia wanting to stay poor while jacking off to Stalin? You might not like the US, but what if it lifted European GDP by 50/60%?

Yes, to a degree I support his policies because I like the multi polar world, with sovereign states and the idea of family unit.

Putin is the only statesman (and Lavrov) I can think of. The west has no statesmen any more, they're all just politicians.

I don't want a rules based order that only has decadence and stands behind nothing other than some rainbow flag and various other nonsense.

The United States doesn't want to lift European GDP. It's just destroyed Europe by blowing up their infrastructure and charging them over the odds for natural gas. Europe is on its knees. Germany needs to grow some balls and leave NATO.

And the idea of Russia becoming more like the west as a pathway to success is ridiculous. It's a pathway to ruin.

Take a look at Europe for example, lots of countries have arguably been influenced by American culture the most, and it has creeped everywhere into the societies. However, there seems to be a backstop in how far a country will adopt American culture. I would bet most Italian teenagers now listen to American pop-music and watch Netflix, however, they are still deeply Italian. Same goes for all other European nationalities I have encountered be it Germany, Greece, Austria, France, Serbia etc.

Theres a difference between embracing American culture of fast food, muscle cars and being a vassel state who is fully controlled by the US.

I like Americans and the people, I just hate their government and the CFR.

If we take a look at countries in former Yugoslavia, they seem to be doing pretty well these days. Same with Poland, Baltic countries etc. In my opinion, Putin is holding his people hostage for the sake of him being the main actor in a grand story of him reclaiming the “glory” of the USSR. What the USA hates is Putin, not Russia.

The Baltic's are non entities. Doing well in what sense?

How is Putin holding citizens hostage? You don't get thrown in the gulags there now, it's relatively free and open. How's Julian Assange getting on in the free and democratic west?

The United States hates Russia full stop. You have people high up - Nuland, Kagan etc that absolutely depise Russia.

If you are objective and have no dogs in this fight, what is your reason for supporting Putin in all of this? You just really hate the US? You like business to be bad and high inflation?

As above I like a multi polar world where sovereign states work together and trade where it's mutually beneficial. Not where one country uses a currency backed by guns to run it by their rules. Where they are their own moral arbiters. The things the USA condemns (or bombs) others for, often do the exact same thing themselves yet brand it as 'good' for the world. I mean look at all the oil they steal from Syria.

I can't think of a single good thing the USA has done for the world in the last 20/30 years. It's a reverse midas touch, everything they touch gets destroyed. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, and now Ukraine. All destroyed.

But despite all that I don't view Russia as some perfect example of how everyone should be. They have flaws, their leaders have flaws like all countries, its just in this case they're on the right side of history.