Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

[RealDude]

Putin: Russia hasn't really started anything yet​

„They should have realized that they had already lost from the very beginning of our special military operation, because its beginning also means the beginning of a complete breakdown of the American world order.“

=> Is he heralding the third world war launched by Russia?

https://www.rt.com/russia/558593-putin-russia-hasnt-started-yet/

 

[Martin Everson]

Ukraine is sadly just the modern day Afghanistan in a proxy war between the U.S and Russia . The U.S will fight to the last Ukrainian and until they sign up enough customers ($$$$$$) in Europe for their weapon systems .

The American global leadership is unraveling as people are not interested in U.S endless wars. The numbers speak for themselves.

https://www.castellum.ai/insights/which-countries-are-taking-action-on-ukraine

 

[Golden Fleece]

Ukraine is sadly just the modern day Afghanistan in a proxy war between the U.S and Russia . The U.S will fight to the last Ukrainian and until they sign up enough customers ($$$$$$) in Europe for their weapon systems .

The American global leadership is unraveling as people are not interested in U.S endless wars. The numbers speak for themselves.

https://www.castellum.ai/insights/which-countries-are-taking-action-on-ukraine

What kind of odd argument is that? Most of the 54 African countries can barely afford food, much less weapons systems to send to Ukraine. The same goes for most of the 33 countries in Latin America and the Caribbean. The fact is that most of the wealthy, civilized nations are indeed sending aid to Ukraine.

Just apply the Pareto Principle, where 20% of the group (the vital few) perform 80% of the labor. Those 45 countries, out of 200 or so, prove the rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

 

[Martin Everson]

What kind of odd argument is that? Most of the 54 African countries can barely afford food, much less weapons systems to send to Ukraine.

There is no need to demean those countries that refuse to involve themselves. You get far too emotional and miss what has been said as a veil of anger seems to always blind you to facts. Like I said below .

The numbers speak for themselves.

The 45 countries are not a great number of countries or people on the global level....lol.

 

[Golden Fleece]

There is no need to demean those countries that refuse to involve themselves. You get far too emotional and miss what has been said as a veil of anger seems to always blind you to facts. Like I said below .



The 45 countries are not a great number of countries or people on the global level....lol.

Nice try at diversion tactics. I am not emotional at all. I merely stated the facts. There is no doubt that food shortages are a HUGE problem in Africa -- and that few, if any, African nations could send weapons systems to Ukraine. Those of the irrefutable facts.

In 2017, 37 countries, including 28 in Africa, depended on food aid, according to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO).

These countries are: Afghanistan, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, DR Congo [or Democratic Republic of the Congo], Eritrea, Ethiopia, Guinea, Haiti, Iraq, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mozambique, Myanmar, Niger, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Swaziland, Syria, Uganda, Yemen and Zimbabwe.

https://www.sos-usa.org/about-us/where-we-work/africa/hunger-in-africa
Those 45 nations, who send aid to Ukraine, represent the majority of the wealth of the world. Again, like I said, the fact is that most of the wealthy, civilized nations are sending aid to Ukraine.

So, the numbers do indeed speak for themselves. It is just that you draw the wrong conclusion.

 

[Martin Everson]

One last attempt hopefully the cloud of emotion clears from his eyes and he sees sense...

The numbers speak for themselves.

The countries that have imposed sanctions on Russia, or pledged to adopt a combination of US and EU sanctions are the following (45) countries:

• EU27
• Albania
• Australia
• Canada
• Iceland
• Japan
• Liechtenstein

• Monaco
• Montenegro
• New Zealand
• North Macedonia
• Norway
• Singapore

• South Korea
• Switzerland
• Taiwan
• Ukraine
• UK
• US

 

[Golden Fleece]

One last attempt hopefully the cloud of emotion clears from his eyes and he sees sense...




The countries that have imposed sanctions on Russia, or pledged to adopt a combination of US and EU sanctions are the following (45) countries:

• EU27
• Albania
• Australia
• Canada
• Iceland
• Japan
• Liechtenstein

• Monaco
• Montenegro
• New Zealand
• North Macedonia
• Norway
• Singapore

• South Korea
• Switzerland
• Taiwan
• Ukraine
• UK
• US

Yes, with a few exceptions, you listed all the countries that matter in terms of wealth, military, democracy, etc.

Why would anyone expect any help, under any condition, from the 54 African countries, the 33 countries in Latin America and the Caribbean, or the 11 countries in SEA? With a few exceptions, did those countries help during WWII? Are all of those nations helping Russia right now? Your argument does not make any sense.

Who donates money to charities? Poor people do not give money to charity. Neither do poor countries.

 

[Martin Everson]

Yes, with a few exceptions, you listed all the countries that matter in terms of wealth, military, democracy, etc.

So the cloud has finally cleared. I again repeat again that those 45 countries are not the majority of the world or even close.

 

[Samman Kaseeb Sleiman]

Let alone the fact the Russia is in BRICS which in itself repsents around 40% of the economy of the world and around the same amount of its population. They're just 5 countries.

 

[Golden Fleece]

So the cloud has finally cleared. I again repeat again that those 45 countries are not the majority of the world or even close.

As I have stated many times already, those 45 countries represent half the world's wealth. So, they have the resources to help Ukraine. Over 100 nations are so poor that they cannot help Ukraine, even if they wished to do so. So, your point, whatever it might be (I cannot really tell), is nonsensical.

The OECD share in world GDP expressed in Purchasing Power Parities (PPPs) stabilised around 50% between 2011 and 2017 (latest benchmark year), according to new data released today by the International Comparison Program (ICP). Similarly, the share of large emerging economies (China, Brazil, India, Indonesia, the Russian Federation and South Africa) also stabilised at around 30% of world GDP.​

https://www.oecd.org/sdd/prices-ppp...t-around-50-per-cent-in-ppp-terms-in-2017.htm

 

[Samman Kaseeb Sleiman]

Putin: Russia hasn't really started anything yet

Right -- might of Russia is so great that it hasn't even had to put in action any significant part of it yet. Why? Because there's been no necessity to.


By the way, you watch or read rt.com? Why? Because you can't help youself to stop thinking about Putin

 

[khinkali]

Georgia should get some credit for being the #1 aid supporter by weight, though obviously other countries will be top when it comes to $ value or some other measure.

 

[Golden Fleece]

Right -- might of Russia is so great that it hasn't even had to put in action any significant part of it yet.

Right. That is why Russia is hiring mercenaries to fight -- and is taking tanks from the 1960's out of storage.

 

[backpacker]

Georgia should get some credit for being the #1 aid supporter by weight, though obviously other countries will be top when it comes to $ value or some other measure.

Georgia : You must be joking!
That country is the biggest beneficiary of this war/military operation/whatever it is called.

Georgia did not pay a single cent, it did not implement any sanctions. Most of the Ukrainians and Russians who come to Georgia during these times are either staying with their close relatives or in completely overpriced apartments. Georgians take massive advantage of the situation, screwing these people whereever they can. Walk through Tbilisi, talk to these people and ask them about their rent, ask them if they received any help from the government.
Just two weeks ago the fabulous Georgian government again seized on the situation and doubled, sometimes even tripled adminisrative fees for permits, notary, Apostille etc. . All a direct result of the current situation because both, Russians and Ukrainians, have nothing better in mind than to establish businesses/companies.

And not to forget these kind of stories who pop up more and more often:

• Finance Minister rejects “even a theoretical possibility” of Georgia being used to circumvent of sanctions
• Georgian Revenue Service rejects “misinformation” about sending radio transmitting device to Belarus, circumventing sanctions
• Revenue Service: Russian-flagged vessel in Batumi port not subject to int’l sanctions

 

[khinkali]

@backpacker I was talking about aid from private individuals, where Georgia is top by weight.

Also, the Georgian government is providing free medical services. Bus and metro is free in Tblisi for Ukrainian citizens. There is free use of sports centres, museum venues, theatres, swimming pools, libraries and art schools. The chamber of commerce is arranging for Ukranian citizens to get free services. Georgian Railway is offering free tickets. Hundreds of hotels have been giving free accommodation to Ukrainian visitors stranded in Georgia.

Rental prices are up in parts of Tbilisi where most non-Georgians live, but in much of the city that hasn't happened. Georgia has very high owner occupancy so the stock of rental property is much smaller than in most Western countries. Part of the rent increase is bouncing back from the covid rental collapse. I live in Samgori and pay the same as I did in 2018.

While not targeting Russian citizens, Georgia complies with international financial sanctions. I don't understand what you mean to communicate with those links. They confirm the position; Georgia isn't imposing additional sanctions (Russia still effectively occupies 20% of the country and there is not much enthusiasm for going back to hot conflict), but is implementing international sanctions.

Do we really think that Georgia should blockade trade between Armenia and Egypt, based on the flag of a cargo ship? I hope not. Armenia is landlocked with armed conflict to the East and a historically genocidal neighbour to the West. It would be a tragedy for Georgia to blockade them.

 

[backpacker]

@backpacker I was talking about aid from private individuals, where Georgia is top by weight.

Also, the Georgian government is providing free medical services. Bus and metro is free in Tblisi for Ukrainian citizens. There is free use of sports centres, museum venues, theatres, swimming pools, libraries and art schools. The chamber of commerce is arranging for Ukranian citizens to get free services. Georgian Railway is offering free tickets. Hundreds of hotels have been giving free accommodation to Ukrainian visitors stranded in Georgia.

Rental prices are up in parts of Tbilisi where most non-Georgians live, but in much of the city that hasn't happened. Georgia has very high owner occupancy so the stock of rental property is much smaller than in most Western countries. Part of the rent increase is bouncing back from the covid rental collapse. I live in Samgori and pay the same as I did in 2018.

While not targeting Russian citizens, Georgia complies with international financial sanctions. I don't understand what you mean to communicate with those links. They confirm the position; Georgia isn't imposing additional sanctions (Russia still effectively occupies 20% of the country and there is not much enthusiasm for going back to hot conflict), but is implementing international sanctions.

Do we really think that Georgia should blockade trade between Armenia and Egypt, based on the flag of a cargo ship? I hope not. Armenia is landlocked with armed conflict to the East and a historically genocidal neighbour to the West. It would be a tragedy for Georgia to blockade them.

My point is that Georgia is one of the main beneficiaries of the current situation in UA. Do you know how many companies have left UA in the past couple of months and moved to GE?
Do you know how many RU-citizens have established new companies in the past couple of months in GE? Talk to lawyers who help establishing these companies and they will tell you that they are now more busy than pre-COVID - all because of UA and RU. And they charge these people much more than they did charge for their services pre-COVID. Same with the services provided by SDA.
Westerners meawhile seemed to have learned their lessons and are more careful, knowing the pitfalls of erratic leagl system of GE.

All in all GE will make big bucks on this situation. The money they spend as help are just peanuts in comparison.
Look up the exchange rate USD/GEL over the past 12 months US Dollar to Georgian Lari Exchange Rate Chart | Xe and you know what I mean. If all these new arrivals from RU and UA would be a burden for the country this exchamge rate would look much different.

Rent: It definitely went up. Not only in Vake and Vera.
Go to Sarajishvili and you will be shocked: A small 42-sqm apartment for USD 350.- . Absolutely insane for that location but UA- and RU-citizens are paying it. This is much more than pre-COVID.
If your rent has not changed since 2018 you seem to not have taken advantage of the COVID rent price collapse. May be that's the reason why your landlord does not bother. Add to it that renting something for 5 years is considered to be extremely long-term in Georgia and you have another bonus point in the eyes of your landlord.

Links: When a government feels the need to deny specific media reports almost on a weekly basis then I would not trust the honesty of such a denial.
With regards to financial sanctions, well, it is Georgia. There is a reason why it has become difficult to use SWIFT with local banks. Look up the reports in this forum and better be vigilant if you still bank with one of the local financial institutions.

 

[khinkali]

Yes like everyone here I am very aware of the huge spike in company formations by UA and RU citizens. It's hardly surprising. Also remittances are up. Not just Russia; a lot of money is flowing from Kazakhstan and elsewhere. I'm not shocked that there is an expensive apartment for rent in Sarajishvili. Meanwhile there continue to be affordable apartments for rent in Varketili. Media and folk on Facebook do a great job of taking a genuine increase in demand and prices, comparing against covid lows and making it sound as if it's the whole country. I guess "there are still places with pre-covid rental prices, just not where most foreigners rent" is not an exciting news story or Facebook post. I have a lot of sympathy for students from outside the capital, who are required to come back to in-person teaching and want to be near their university.

Net beneficiary? Nope. Food inflation is a much bigger problem than rent inflation for most Georgian people. Some extra visitors mean that tourism is only 38% below 2019 levels, but talk to local business people and they are not happy or optimistic. Also the invasion has added to political instability and nobody knows if the government will be able to continue its course of ambition in principle and compromise in practice.

I continue to find it odd how Georgian banks are simultaneously accused of being over zealous and hard to work with for cross border payments, while being a global money laundering centre.

In terms of the thread subject, big changes to the world order are coming and like covid's influence on travel and online work, the invasion is accelerating some changes that had already started. The RU,CN statement before the Winter Olympics set a context that affects global shortages, Russia's invasion, potential loss of US dollar hegemony, energy and commodity squeezes along with growing political instability in the West.

 

[Samman Kaseeb Sleiman]

By the way, what's special about Tbilisi? Why does everyone want to go there instead of Kutaisi?

 

[troubled soul]

Zelenskiy sacks Ukraine's envoy to Germany, other ambassadors
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...s-envoy-germany-other-ambassadors-2022-07-09/
Fame went up to his head it seems...

 

[RealDude]

Zelenskiy sacks Ukraine's envoy to Germany, other ambassadors
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...s-envoy-germany-other-ambassadors-2022-07-09/
Fame went up to his head it seems...

It was high time.