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Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

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#41
JohnnyDoe said:
If he really went to the battlefield (?) that would be a stupid and dangerous show. He would be putting his men into danger just to satisfy his own narcissism. Obviously he is not a trained soldier, so there must be someone around him to make sure he is safe at all times, and he becomes a target.
A leader is one who carries on his job and does whatever possible to ensure that his people are safe. The job of a president is not to play soldier.
Click to expand...

So far ukraine has mostly shown video games footage.
My uneducated interpretation is that they have nothing better, and that the russians are actually very careful not to make any civilian casualty, also to avoid future internal and international issues. Possibly one of the reason they are slower than expected.
 
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#42
This is what Ukraine says a Russian missile did to a civilian building:
9FCFFD76-8B20-429F-B67E-F21FE79C103C.webp


Do you really think that if Russia wants to hit a building it doesn’t have a powerful enough missile available? In fact that damage was caused by a Ukrainian ground to air missile that didn’t hit its target.

This is what happens to a building that is hit by a missile with the intent to destroy it:

F8DA4EA4-1EE3-4E34-A23F-93D5747F3E16.webp
 
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#44
leaving aside cospiracy theories for why russia wants ukraine (and provided that nobody would ever believe russia wants to ever annex the whole ukraine), it makes only sense that Russia is seeking to force a neighboring country with a huge russian population in it, and that has been subject to western propaganda which has fueled civil conflics (like odessa 2014), to turn neutral, as it would otherwise become effectively powerless should things turn even souther across the border and be ethnic russians persecuted. Since, among other things, Ukraine is not known for having the most honest and respectable political class, or lately for being the most russian-friendly nation.
It's like if Canada would join soviet union. i don't even need to suggest what would USA do. And even in Canada i believe there are fewer americans than russians in ukraine.

It would be good , however, to read argumented opinions for why ukrainian neutrality isn't acceptable, and it is necessary to have US troops and weapons brought over there. Perhaps i'm missing something.
 
#49
you guys speak about Ukraine being neutral and that there should be a buffer between NATO and Russia but what's up with the Baltics? Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?
All 3 have a decent amount of Russian population and all 3 countries are in the EU and NATO and all 3 have borders with Russia.
What I truly do not understand is what is the fundamental purpose of the war? Sberbank has fallen 75%, all other companies too, economy fucked properly! Putin only refuses to play by the rules and cant get along with the idea that Russia is not an empire. It could have been if they really took care about the country and the people instead of stealing 99% of the money coming their way.
All Russia has now is corruption, a complete mess, and a crazy old man in charge
 
#50
spacely said:
you guys speak about Ukraine being neutral and that there should be a buffer between NATO and Russia but what's up with the Baltics? Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?
All 3 have a decent amount of Russian population and all 3 countries are in the EU and NATO and all 3 have borders with Russia.
What I truly do not understand is what is the fundamental purpose of the war? Sberbank has fallen 75%, all other companies too, economy fucked properly! Putin only refuses to play by the rules and cant get along with the idea that Russia is not an empire. It could have been if they really took care about the country and the people instead of stealing 99% of the money coming their way.
All Russia has now is corruption, a complete mess, and a crazy old man in charge
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good question. Eventually they must go as well?
Especially considering Sweden/Finland not being in Nato.
 
#51
spacely said:
you guys speak about Ukraine being neutral and that there should be a buffer between NATO and Russia but what's up with the Baltics? Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?
All 3 have a decent amount of Russian population and all 3 countries are in the EU and NATO and all 3 have borders with Russia.
Click to expand...
perhaps, Latvia and Lithuania are in a different geographical location, and are less of a threat.


 
#52
spacely said:
you guys speak about Ukraine being neutral and that there should be a buffer between NATO and Russia but what's up with the Baltics? Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?
All 3 have a decent amount of Russian population and all 3 countries are in the EU and NATO and all 3 have borders with Russia.
What I truly do not understand is what is the fundamental purpose of the war? Sberbank has fallen 75%, all other companies too, economy fucked properly! Putin only refuses to play by the rules and cant get along with the idea that Russia is not an empire. It could have been if they really took care about the country and the people instead of stealing 99% of the money coming their way.
All Russia has now is corruption, a complete mess, and a crazy old man in charge
Click to expand...
Its not mainly about ukraine but crimea.If russia loses crimea it is losing being an important marine.
 
#57
369 said:
Its not mainly about ukraine but crimea.If russia loses crimea it is losing being an important marine.
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they could just keep it that way remaining low-key, why conquer the whole country. It will not lead anywhere!! What is their goal???

Golden Fleece said:
Results of a poll were just released in Finland today. The first time in history that a majority of Fins favor joining NATO. Good job at NATO recruitment, Putin!
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that is really fucked up! Spoke with Fins today and they were extremely happy with their sitation previously and now people are scared.
imho it will lead to nothing, Putin will just fail to even take Kiev
 
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#58
spacely said:
imho it will lead to nothing, Putin will just fail to even take Kiev
Click to expand...
But that is the true danger that no one understands. If the war against Ukraine is perceived as a failure, it could topple Putin's regime. If the war lasts too long, the economic pain that Russians will feel will be so bad that it could threaten or topple Putin's regime. In either case, this will make Putin very dangerous as he tries to survive, both politically and literally. There could be a sudden announcement that he just died of "natural causes" in his sleep.

It seems that Putin may have badly miscalculated the Russian army's competence, the will of the Ukrainian people, and the West's utter abhorrence of such uncivilized aggression. The smart move would be for the West to allow Putin to save face and withdraw, perhaps by proclaiming that Ukraine will never become part of NATO. Of course, Putin must be wise enough to accept such an olive branch. This is exactly how great wars begin.
 
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#59
Golden Fleece said:
But that is the true danger that no one understands. If the war against Ukraine is perceived as a failure, it could topple Putin's regime. If the war lasts too long, the economic pain that Russians will feel will be so bad that it could threaten or topple Putin's regime. In either case, this will make Putin very dangerous as he tries to survive, both politically and literally. There could be a sudden announcement that he just died of "natural causes" in his sleep.

It seems that Putin may have badly miscalculated the Russian army's competence, the will of the Ukrainian people, and the West's utter abhorrence of such uncivilized aggression. The smart move would be for the West to allow Putin to save face and withdraw, perhaps by proclaiming that Ukraine will never become part of NATO. Of course, Putin must be wise enough to accept such an olive branch. This is exactly how great wars begin.
Click to expand...
Putin and Swoboda clearly cowork on this war.Target is not ukraine but the european citizens and destroying the financial system to move to the first new monetary system.
 
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