Offshore Banks Accepting Americans

[HeidiInTheAlps]

For those Americans suffering, and that is every American who is a member of this forum, there is some small movements going on that are worth noting. For the first time, that I've seen, in more than 5 years, there is finally non-partisan cooperation for lobbying DC to untangle this mess. For people on here, its's lack of financial freedom, but for Americans that are bonafide, long-term residents of other countries, especially those receiving entitlements, it's even worse. This isn't my group, I don't benefit from promoting it except from the 'we're all in this together' Lobby to fix Citizen Based Taxation for US citizens. Out of all the efforts I've observed, including the many lawsuits, this one gives me the most hope. If you're American, consider supporting their efforts.

 

[Davis123]

For those Americans suffering, and that is every American who is a member of this forum, there is some small movements going on that are worth noting. For the first time, that I've seen, in more than 5 years, there is finally non-partisan cooperation for lobbying DC to untangle this mess. For people on here, its's lack of financial freedom, but for Americans that are bonafide, long-term residents of other countries, especially those receiving entitlements, it's even worse. This isn't my group, I don't benefit from promoting it except from the 'we're all in this together' Lobby to fix Citizen Based Taxation for US citizens. Out of all the efforts I've observed, including the many lawsuits, this one gives me the most hope. If you're American, consider supporting their efforts.

Dear I do support their efforts but truth is those outside USA are considered not loyal to the country, tax cheats etc and that is why FATCA effected those outside USA mostly and if you look at historical efforts it was Democrats who did this to us and don't want to listen to sound reasoning as they consider they will be seen too as lenient on offshore tax cheats by natives in motherland . When you look at their narrative you start thinking hmm. If I didn't have FATCA or tax citizenship I would not be paying those US CPAs for my tax filings every year and still be harassed by banks. Did you even know that it effected US military children married to foreigners living outside USA? Yes it made them renounced as their marriages would have crumbled up. Some of them went to US congress too several times with their pleas but but FATCA still remained untouched.

 

[HeidiInTheAlps]

I understand all of that. And agree. It affects anyone with a US parent because of birthright citizenship.

I've been on this for several years, and I do see a slight shift for things to change.

As far as the Dems vs. Republicans, both are equal in their blame. RO went around for the last two elections and raised money on the back of this issue. It even made it to their platform in 2016, but when push came to shove, the big corporations got their FACTA pass, and the little guys - - like us, and individuals, got thrown underneath the bus. RO said 'when ran out of time' when in fact no one read the freaking bill before it was passed. If they cared so much, then they didn't show it. Also, in fact with GILTI and the repat tax they actually made it worse for Americans overseas with small businesses...

But anyway, party politics aside, this lobby effort combined with some of the lawsuits that are pending is the largest, albeit very small opening I've seen in the last 5 years.

 

[Davis123]

I understand all of that. And agree. It affects anyone with a US parent because of birthright citizenship.

I've been on this for several years, and I do see a slight shift for things to change.

As far as the Dems vs. Republicans, both are equal in their blame. RO went around for the last two elections and raised money on the back of this issue. It even made it to their platform in 2016, but when push came to shove, the big corporations got their FACTA pass, and the little guys - - like us, and individuals, got thrown underneath the bus. RO said 'when ran out of time' when in fact no one read the freaking bill before it was passed. If they cared so much, then they didn't show it. Also, in fact with GILTI and the repat tax they actually made it worse for Americans overseas with small businesses...

But anyway, party politics aside, this lobby effort combined with some of the lawsuits that are pending is the largest, albeit very small opening I've seen in the last 5 years.

I doubt anything will happen as now I see a different news that Treasury dept wants to get info on all US expats renouncing to see if they have any unpaid taxes due or any compliance issues too in the past. Things are too crazy in USA and they are getting desperate like every other country is but Treasury can't look at big corporations to find their tax revenues (they lowered their taxes from 39 to 21 percent under Trump) and want an average expat American more under scrunity such as what Canadian Americans are upset about now living in Canada for decades. Anyways I don't think any administration will want to tackle this issue especially Democrats as they were the ones who shoved this monstrosity on us and even the author who wrote the bill didn't think it would hurt an average American overseas as he stated in an interview. When you have citizenship taxation based obviously what do you expect? Then they scream on Eriteria which has citizenship based taxation too.

 

[Davis123]

I understand all of that. And agree. It affects anyone with a US parent because of birthright citizenship.

I've been on this for several years, and I do see a slight shift for things to change.

As far as the Dems vs. Republicans, both are equal in their blame. RO went around for the last two elections and raised money on the back of this issue. It even made it to their platform in 2016, but when push came to shove, the big corporations got their FACTA pass, and the little guys - - like us, and individuals, got thrown underneath the bus. RO said 'when ran out of time' when in fact no one read the freaking bill before it was passed. If they cared so much, then they didn't show it. Also, in fact with GILTI and the repat tax they actually made it worse for Americans overseas with small businesses...

But anyway, party politics aside, this lobby effort combined with some of the lawsuits that are pending is the largest, albeit very small opening I've seen in the last 5 years.

What effects me mostly is that they have made banks and brokerages declining my account due to this law. They have a full right to deny banking with this kind of messy law that US congress refuses to fix and makes banks responsible.

 

[HeidiInTheAlps]

What effects me mostly is that they have made banks and brokerages declining my account due to this law. They have a full right to deny banking with this kind of messy law that US congress refuses to fix and makes banks responsible.

It's a total mess. For sure.

I was referencing Yellen's confirmation hearing. There is hard data that suggest a couple of things:

85% of expats make less that FEIE.
Most moved for non business reason
Most move to one country and stay there

The other nuggets is, the ROI from the IRS point of view is very low. They would collect more tax by focusing on domestic issues. The revenue they collect does not cover the costs to keep the department running, it's only from the draconian penalities that it makes a profit.

I do expect a continued crack down on multi-national profiles, so, if that's you, it may get worse. But ostensibly it should work like, the country that you are a resident of has jurisdiction of your tax and oversight on suspicious money laundering behavior.

Blaming the authors of this law is fools game. It gets you absolutely no where. Done is done, we're at where we're at and it's about fixing this.

To that end, there is not one sitting Republican House Representative that has voiced an opinion in our favor on this. There are however, 6 democratic house reps that have a public statement that supports positive reform. The only Senator that has voiced support is Rand Paul. Also, Meadows knows good and well what the problem is, he chaired the hearing on this a few years back. As Chief of Staff, he was in a position to suggest an EO that would have addressed this. The easiest fix is to change the word 'citizen' in the tax code with 'resident'.

Also, it's likely the GILTI tax will be overturned, at least in part, every effort to turn back some of this is a step in the right direction. That case is awaiting a decision.

Until then, the only remedy is a 2nd passport, then renounce. Very unfair of course. But that's the truth.

 

[Davis123]

It's a total mess. For sure.

I was referencing Yellen's confirmation hearing. There is hard data that suggest a couple of things:

85% of expats make less that FEIE.
Most moved for non business reason
Most move to one country and stay there

The other nuggets is, the ROI from the IRS point of view is very low. They would collect more tax by focusing on domestic issues. The revenue they collect does not cover the costs to keep the department running, it's only from the draconian penalities that it makes a profit.

I do expect a continued crack down on multi-national profiles, so, if that's you, it may get worse. But ostensibly it should work like, the country that you are a resident of has jurisdiction of your tax and oversight on suspicious money laundering behavior.

Blaming the authors of this law is fools game. It gets you absolutely no where. Done is done, we're at where we're at and it's about fixing this.

To that end, there is not one sitting Republican House Representative that has voiced an opinion in our favor on this. There are however, 6 democratic house reps that have a public statement that supports positive reform. The only Senator that has voiced support is Rand Paul. Also, Meadows knows good and well what the problem is, he chaired the hearing on this a few years back. As Chief of Staff, he was in a position to suggest an EO that would have addressed this. The easiest fix is to change the word 'citizen' in the tax code with 'resident'.

Also, it's likely the GILTI tax will be overturned, at least in part, every effort to turn back some of this is a step in the right direction. That case is awaiting a decision.

Until then, the only remedy is a 2nd passport, then renounce. Very unfair of course. But that's the truth.

Other than facing issues with banks and brokerages I have no issues and I am complying with all their crap so I don't have issues regarding this matter. I hate to renounce as I feel as an American it's unjustified to renounce just for this matter. I can get a carribean or Vanuatu as second passport but I don't want to get them as I think only a UK passport would be much better than my US and a UK passport is very costly. Possibly I want to retire in UK someday but I don't know if I can afford it as of now.

 

[Davis123]

It's a total mess. For sure.

I was referencing Yellen's confirmation hearing. There is hard data that suggest a couple of things:

85% of expats make less that FEIE.
Most moved for non business reason
Most move to one country and stay there

The other nuggets is, the ROI from the IRS point of view is very low. They would collect more tax by focusing on domestic issues. The revenue they collect does not cover the costs to keep the department running, it's only from the draconian penalities that it makes a profit.

I do expect a continued crack down on multi-national profiles, so, if that's you, it may get worse. But ostensibly it should work like, the country that you are a resident of has jurisdiction of your tax and oversight on suspicious money laundering behavior.

Blaming the authors of this law is fools game. It gets you absolutely no where. Done is done, we're at where we're at and it's about fixing this.

To that end, there is not one sitting Republican House Representative that has voiced an opinion in our favor on this. There are however, 6 democratic house reps that have a public statement that supports positive reform. The only Senator that has voiced support is Rand Paul. Also, Meadows knows good and well what the problem is, he chaired the hearing on this a few years back. As Chief of Staff, he was in a position to suggest an EO that would have addressed this. The easiest fix is to change the word 'citizen' in the tax code with 'resident'.

Also, it's likely the GILTI tax will be overturned, at least in part, every effort to turn back some of this is a step in the right direction. That case is awaiting a decision.

Until then, the only remedy is a 2nd passport, then renounce. Very unfair of course. But that's the truth.

Well let's see I doubt they will ever change the citizenship based taxation clause. Too many international attorneys and CPAs job will go away and their lobby is very strong so this is something they would never let it go. IRS does not collect anything out of it rather they are squandering away their resources for lobbyists.

 

[Davis123]

It's a total mess. For sure.

I was referencing Yellen's confirmation hearing. There is hard data that suggest a couple of things:

85% of expats make less that FEIE.
Most moved for non business reason
Most move to one country and stay there

The other nuggets is, the ROI from the IRS point of view is very low. They would collect more tax by focusing on domestic issues. The revenue they collect does not cover the costs to keep the department running, it's only from the draconian penalities that it makes a profit.

I do expect a continued crack down on multi-national profiles, so, if that's you, it may get worse. But ostensibly it should work like, the country that you are a resident of has jurisdiction of your tax and oversight on suspicious money laundering behavior.

Blaming the authors of this law is fools game. It gets you absolutely no where. Done is done, we're at where we're at and it's about fixing this.

To that end, there is not one sitting Republican House Representative that has voiced an opinion in our favor on this. There are however, 6 democratic house reps that have a public statement that supports positive reform. The only Senator that has voiced support is Rand Paul. Also, Meadows knows good and well what the problem is, he chaired the hearing on this a few years back. As Chief of Staff, he was in a position to suggest an EO that would have addressed this. The easiest fix is to change the word 'citizen' in the tax code with 'resident'.

Also, it's likely the GILTI tax will be overturned, at least in part, every effort to turn back some of this is a step in the right direction. That case is awaiting a decision.

Until then, the only remedy is a 2nd passport, then renounce. Very unfair of course. But that's the truth.

Three points you stated above I qualified already .

 

[HeidiInTheAlps]

Three points you stated above I qualified already .

I hear ya. I'm in the same boat, although I hope to getting above the FEIE. My partner is a NRA - so we have options that way. There is substantial talk to find a way to exclude bonafide residents of other countries.

But, the only for sure way out is to renounce. And it's an emotionally charged decision. It's just hard to do. And you're right, why should we have to? But life ain't fair. I also have an EU passport, so I have a way out.

The UK wouldn't be my choice to retire, but if that's what you like, good for you.

There will be some tax reform coming, and there are some serious Members of Congress that know this have to be changed, including Jamie Raskins. The others off the top of my head are Dina Titus (NV) and Don Beyer (VA I think) and he was the Swiss ambassador when this all came down. So he saw the suffering and madness first hand. There are a couple of others as well, but those three definitely get it. Titus used to live in Spain and also suffered it first hand. I'm willing to see what the new tax reform brings.

But I don't get where people think they can benefit from an infrastructure and not pay tax... like the Amazon's of the world. He's running his company with persons educated with our tax dollars... using the roads, etc... it doesn't sit right with me. And people like us are paying the full monty.

 

[Davis123]

I hear ya. I'm in the same boat, although I hope to getting above the FEIE. My partner is a NRA - so we have options that way. There is substantial talk to find a way to exclude bonafide residents of other countries.

But, the only for sure way out is to renounce. And it's an emotionally charged decision. It's just hard to do. And you're right, why should we have to? But life ain't fair. I also have an EU passport, so I have a way out.

The UK wouldn't be my choice to retire, but if that's what you like, good for you.

There will be some tax reform coming, and there are some serious Members of Congress that know this have to be changed, including Jamie Raskins. The others off the top of my head are Dina Titus (NV) and Don Beyer (VA I think) and he was the Swiss ambassador when this all came down. So he saw the suffering and madness first hand. There are a couple of others as well, but those three definitely get it. Titus used to live in Spain and also suffered it first hand. I'm willing to see what the new tax reform brings.

But I don't get where people think they can benefit from an infrastructure and not pay tax... like the Amazon's of the world. He's running his company with persons educated with our tax dollars... using the roads, etc... it doesn't sit right with me. And people like us are paying the full monty.

Exactly look at all of Amazon's zero tax havens they used for decades. We are simply nothing but they get away due to their lawyers advising them of all these loopholes US congressmen (tax law firms and lawyers advise them) design for them while we get the short end of the stick. Mitt Romney can get away with lower taxes in his Cayman company that became famous during his presidential campaign. Same as all the Congressmen included. Devising an ill advised law to harass and terrorise expats and foreign banks and brokerages. . I am not renouncing as I may retire in Florida if I don't get UK. Life is short. We never know what new surprise comes up next.

 

[Vor]

Counting down the remaining 2 years until I can just renounce my US passport, it isn’t worth the headache and I’m not gonna sit around waiting for it to change when it could always change for the worse(higher renunciation costs, longer wait times, maybe they don’t allow you to renounce even one day)

 

[Davis123]

Counting down the remaining 2 years until I can just renounce my US passport, it isn’t worth the headache and I’m not gonna sit around waiting for it to change when it could always change for the worse(higher renunciation costs, longer wait times, maybe they don’t allow you to renounce even one day)

I doubt they won't allow you to renounce but they might make it harder, longer wait times with more costs. Well if you are getting an EU passport make sure they don't make this type of law as they are seriously considering this law due to their current situation. Then you will be like walking from one frying pan to another

 

[HeidiInTheAlps]

I doubt they won't allow you to renounce but they might make it harder, longer wait times with more costs. Well if you are getting an EU passport make sure they don't make this type of law as they are seriously considering this law due to their current situation. Then you will be like walking from one frying pan to another

That's what I'm trying to game out... I have both right now, but with the way the world is turning, less passports may be preferable to more... ugh, such a nightmare.

 

[Vor]

I doubt they won't allow you to renounce but they might make it harder, longer wait times with more costs. Well if you are getting an EU passport make sure they don't make this type of law as they are seriously considering this law due to their current situation. Then you will be like walking from one frying pan to another

this is very true however i plan to live in the Caribbean territory of a EU member state, I would wanna keep my funds and investments back in the EU member state rather than the island. This is why in my scenario even if the EU does do a Citizenship Based Taxation it will still be a preferable situation to my American passport since I'd imagine a EU member states overseas territory would either be brought under 1 system or given basically an exemption since their still residing in their EU member states territory. I will never be truly 0% tax due to life choices like family, friends, etc I dont care to move to somewhere like UAE.

I do think that much of the first world to their detriment will move towards a US citizenship based taxation strategy. They'd rather die on ideology and keep taxes high than compete with low tax countries that are functioning just fine and in some cases better than their 50% tax rate counterparts.

 

[Vor]

That's what I'm trying to game out... I have both right now, but with the way the world is turning, less passports may be preferable to more... ugh, such a nightmare.

US + EU passport someday could be 3 tax filings if the EU did a member state citizenship based taxation scheme hahaha god imagine that living in Canada and then filing for the US, EU, CA lol. What a world we may live in because of a stupid public who worship the government.

 

[Silvio]

Counting down the remaining 2 years until I can just renounce my US passport, it isn’t worth the headache and I’m not gonna sit around waiting for it to change when it could always change for the worse(higher renunciation costs, longer wait times, maybe they don’t allow you to renounce even one day)

If there is anything certain in the tax\offshore field it's this: nothing gets better, only worse. So do everything you can while you still can as you don't know if you will get the chance tomorrow.

 

[HeidiInTheAlps]

this is very true however i plan to live in the Caribbean territory of a EU member state, I would wanna keep my funds and investments back in the EU member state rather than the island. This is why in my scenario even if the EU does do a Citizenship Based Taxation it will still be a preferable situation to my American passport since I'd imagine a EU member states overseas territory would either be brought under 1 system or given basically an exemption since their still residing in their EU member states territory. I will never be truly 0% tax due to life choices like family, friends, etc I dont care to move to somewhere like UAE.

I do think that much of the first world to their detriment will move towards a US citizenship based taxation strategy. They'd rather die on ideology and keep taxes high than compete with low tax countries that are functioning just fine and in some cases better than their 50% tax rate counterparts.

The correct approach is RESIDENT BASED TAXATION, and your resident country is responsible for monitoring for money laundering of their residents. Any other plan is double jeopardy and a hot mess if you extrapolate it out.

 

[Vor]

The correct approach is RESIDENT BASED TAXATION, and your resident country is responsible for monitoring for money laundering of their residents. Any other plan is double jeopardy and a hot mess if you extrapolate it out.

Resident based taxation makes sense to anyone with common sense.. but government has no common sense

 

[Davis123]

Resident based taxation makes sense to anyone with common sense.. but government has no common sense

Govt looks for tax cows not your or mine's way of thinking. . Think why FATCA was cooked up not for tax evasion as told to general public. It was an indirect form of capital control.