MALTA/DUBAI/HUNGARY/CYPRUS - whats the best play in this scenario?

[zaybxc]

Are we talking about offshore banking OR tax residency.

Tax residency.

The closest to Hungary's corporation system...

Yes OP can open a KFT company...

No company: a natural person trading crypto doesn't need a company.

The idea is:
- relocate to Hungary and live there 183+ days a year to become tax resident (I won't be resident in any other country);
- swap between cryptos and stake (tax free);
- sell crypto for fiat when cash is needed (15% tax).

On paper Hungary looks good but the country is notorious for being corrupted and a bureaucratic nightmare, so I'm wondering if you reckon to be worth to relocate there for a EU crypto trader...
Maybe it's difficult to find a honest and competent accountant to file a tax return? Or maybe other problems?

 

[jesuschrist]

10 years ago, you opened personal account without any link with your passeport as non resident. Bank workers even told you to put your foreign phone number as a TIN. Another time, another story.

Switzerland abolished numbered bank accounts earlier than Hungary.

Maybe it's difficult to find a honest and competent accountant to file a tax return? Or maybe other problems?

For most people the biggest problem is the language, even people who work in the banks only speak basic English, the accountants and professionals speaks it good though.

Actually the difficult language and the bureaucratic nightmare is an advantage for us, because the cryptobros from the west can't go past the first steps, so they choose easier and more straightforward jurisdictions like UAE, if they would choose HU the EU would force all the loopholes here.

So far only the Chinese come to HU to cash out 100millions and buying up castles and other assets in Europe.

I think your plan sounds good, if you are a trader you can even keep the most of the profit in USDC and as long as you don't convert it to fiat you don't have to pay tax after it.
You can even spend some of that USDC with a crypto card.

I suffered some losses a few years ago with FTX and Celsius and I claimed crypto lossess, the next year I paid much less than 15% income tax.

 

[gonliss]

You can even spend some of that USDC with a crypto card.

In most cases this is a taxable event. Spending USDC with a crypto card is equal to converting to FIAT - which basically is a taxable event.

 

[toums]

In most cases this is a taxable event. Spending USDC with a crypto card is equal to converting to FIAT - which basically is a taxable event.

all depend of your residency tax country..

 

[zaybxc]

For most people the biggest problem is the language, even people who work in the banks only speak basic English

I guess google translator on mobile phone should suffice in most cases when talking to people... probably renting a house or buying a car might be tough.

the accountants and professionals speaks it good though.

That's good, so there shouldn't be problems to file a tax return.

Actually the difficult language and the bureaucratic nightmare is an advantage for us, because the cryptobros from the west can't go past the first steps, so they choose easier and more straightforward jurisdictions like UAE, if they would choose HU the EU would force all the loopholes here.

Probably I'm missing something, but for a EU cryptobro it looks straightforward, way easier than UAE.

I think your plan sounds good, if you are a trader you can even keep the most of the profit in USDC and as long as you don't convert it to fiat you don't have to pay tax after it.

Yep, that's the part I like: it's very handy to plan how much fiat to get the following year and the amount of tax to pay.

You can even spend some of that USDC with a crypto card.

I would avoid this, it generates tax events.

So, all in all Hungary seems doable... Thanks @jesuschrist for your comment and as every year tonight is gonna be great for you, enjoy!

 

[pirbtc]

Cyprus is quite awesome, since you can benefit from zero capital gains tax from selling company shares/stocks, and lower corporate tax.
With certain setups it could be even more beneficial to remain Estonian tax resident though, as you can avoid paying 2.65% Cyprus social tax.
Also with Estonian company in Cyprus you can avoid audit and submitting financial statements, so it can save on costs.
If you have significant crypto holdings it could make sense. You probably need some legal advice how to set it up, maintenance wise it costs like regular company.

Estonian company in Cyprus wont become Cyprus company due to company residency rules?

 

[Don]

Estonian company in Cyprus wont become Cyprus company due to company residency rules?

Foreign company tax residence will be assessed based on a double tax treaty article 4.

"Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1 a person other than an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, the competent authorities of the Contracting States
shall settle the question by mutual agreement due regard being had to the place of effective management of such person or any other relevant criterion."

 

[lili247]

@toums @jesuschrist I have an account with OTP HU for 8 years because I have real estate in Budapest. I’m tax resident in Malta.

A few years ago I withdrew 100k€ from Kraken to OTP, no question asked.

Do you think that it would still be the same today ? And for bigger amounts like 500k€ ?

 

[toums]

@toums @jesuschrist I have an account with OTP HU for 8 years because I have real estate in Budapest. I’m tax resident in Malta.

A few years ago I withdrew 100k€ from Kraken to OTP, no question asked.

Do you think that it would still be the same today ? And for bigger amounts like 500k€ ?

Yes. 500K is not really big.
If you are afraid about it, you can still do it in 2/3/4 transfers to test it.
I would just not keep the whole money there for too long (= when you send it there you should know already what you will do / where you will put next the money).

 

[EliasIT]

hello guys, whats the best thing to do in this scenario.

Let`s say there is a person with 6 figures in crypto and want to cash it out (get it legal in a bankaccount) with the lowest tax possible without moving out of europe (worst case is dubai lol ). There is no hestitation to go and live there for a year or some aslong everything is legal and i dont pay 40-50% tax but the "person" would maybe move back after 1 year or something.


In Malta when im not mistaken you can cash it out for free (privat)if you hold if for a longer period (how long is the period?) would it be possible to just go there wait till u have non dom status and then cashout 6 figures in few batches? since it not via a company i wouldnt need to pay income tax or would it be better to open a company pay these 5% tax and have my peace from law enforcment.

In Hungary there is a 15% flat tax and thats it still at little bit high imo. No sea/sun and less "expats" or "nomads".

cyprus tax would be 12.5 % + you could do some "shady" stuff with north cyprus to setup a company there and basically pay 0 tax cause there is no "enforcment" there. but prefer legal way and inncer peace good things: sun/ sea / nomads

dubai: 0% tax - big playground but far away from friends family etc.

What would you do? is there some better options? i heard if you get nondom in malta and you have income out of malta there is no tax. could setup a bank account outside of europe (swiss/cayman/bahams etc) and receive funds there?


Share your knowledge with me, thanks for your time,


stay wealthy.

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