How Secure is Switzerland When it Comes to Protecting Wealth and Assets?

[koohl]

There is a very pessimistic view here when it comes to the EU and Europe, specifically Switzerland and Liechtenstein. This is ultra liberalism at its finest.

Russia is mentioned as an argument, which for me is not an argument, but that discussion doesn’t belong in this thread.

If the OP gets things checked by a well reputed tax lawyer in the country he plans to move to and gets the go-ahead, I wouldn’t hesitate to proceed with the plan, as long as the maintenance costs are reasonable.

I have a strong suspicion that he has a solid financial foundation to find the right advice, and I hope there will be feedback here afterward.

For me personally, Switzerland is still better than many European countries, and I believe it largely depends on where the money comes from. I also think many of those arguing here would have a hard time providing a good explanation for that, and that’s where the problems start, which I think would happen in any normally functioning country.

 

[mraleph]

what has been written in law does not mean much these days in the west (its like the whole world is becoming a banana republic).

you can look what they are currently doing. They confiscated assets of russians due to pressure from us and eu (which is against the law in many instances) while giving money freely to Ukrainians (I dont wanna pick sides here, but this is just not neutral at all, you cant favor one side over another while claiming being neutral. Fair point tho if they want to actively join the western bloc). During covid, they forced to close shops (which is against the law as well). They prosecute free speech on X of people mocking against the lgbtq group.
There are many more such examples.

I pick sides and that is not the Global South nor Orient. We are in WW3.

But the discussion is about particular Swiss vehicle - the regulatory framework didn't come after february 2022, but decades before. In strict sense, the sanctions regime related to Russian entities defined by Federal council is perfectly legal which doesn't have anything with EU ascension but already quoted norm from Embargogesetz.

There is a very pessimistic view here when it comes to the EU and Europe, specifically Switzerland and Liechtenstein. This is ultra liberalism at its finest.

Well, I do not quite agree with all that libertarianism, pessimism and defetism at OCT - ideology shouldn't compromise the facts.

If the OP gets things checked by a well reputed tax lawyer in the country he plans to move to and gets the go-ahead, I wouldn’t hesitate to proceed with the plan, as long as the maintenance costs are reasonable.

The set-up isn't for everybody, not cheap by any means nor instant - legal and tax counsel included - but still allows libertarian dreams. The reason why Proton UBOs did it is to obscure the control but the gem lies behing the control.

History is cyclical. Swiss humanitarian and peace building activities and differential neutrality - regarding doing business with all sides and compromising with their policies- resembles the period 1918-1938 where they also tried to play with multiple actors.

this does not mean necessarily lower quality of life, far from it. Even in areas of Africa you can have an equal lifestyle than in many European capitals for less.

Personaly, I can't accept to substitute West and its services for other regions that offer the same for a cheaper price. My firm belief is that high or extraordinary quality comes with rarity and that always have expensive note. What's the point of artificial Chinese diamonds or their fake Santorini - its cheaper then the real for sure. Is it worth it? Victoria Jungfrau, Dolder and Bürgenstock are one and only and all those from Global South would like to come here and enjoy. Can't understand why is the opposite here at OCT.

 

[wellington]

it might have worked in a past version switzerland, which reflects in people still holding on to it.

But the country in its current form is experiencing a sharp turn joining into the collectivism grappling europe. Further it has lost its neutrality and if pressure arise, due to internal weakness, it will change laws overnight (this could be seen easily since 2020 especially). They are also quick in confiscating russian assets.

So, since this way uses man made laws as its only way of protection, I would not bet the form on a country which has had such a track record in the recent past.

Singapore became the main neutral country

UAE and Qatar are other options

There is a very pessimistic view here when it comes to the EU and Europe, specifically Switzerland and Liechtenstein. This is ultra liberalism at its finest.

Russia is mentioned as an argument, which for me is not an argument, but that discussion doesn’t belong in this thread.

If the OP gets things checked by a well reputed tax lawyer in the country he plans to move to and gets the go-ahead, I wouldn’t hesitate to proceed with the plan, as long as the maintenance costs are reasonable.

I have a strong suspicion that he has a solid financial foundation to find the right advice, and I hope there will be feedback here afterward.

For me personally, Switzerland is still better than many European countries, and I believe it largely depends on where the money comes from. I also think many of those arguing here would have a hard time providing a good explanation for that, and that’s where the problems start, which I think would happen in any normally functioning country.

Switzerland debased offset via buying tech stocks and putting on the Balance Sheet opposed to sovereign debt alone

For that reason alone it’s in a stronger position but Switzerland increasingly follows the EU demands - the EU increasingly IS becoming a surveillance control state coupled with socialism / communism aspects

So that’s your reason to avoid it.

Also the direct democracy aspect is weakened - meaning rule of law is weakened as the law is on the whims - by this I reflect on the 2018 vote to never bail out the banking system and in 2021-2022 they ignored this and did it anyway.

In addition the Swiss Central Bank is beholden to the Treasury and Fed for swap lines thus Swiss finds itself monetarily subservient to the US and politically subservient to the EU.

For those reasons Swiss became a “non starter” for me.

 

[mraleph]

Singapore became the main neutral country

UAE and Qatar are other options

Neutrality requires that all parties percieve and accept that a certain party is politicaly, militarily and economicaly - beside other aspects - equidistanced from or not active on contentious matters. Also, a neutral party can't be aligned or be engaged in any conflict.

How can either Singapore - thru SDF in alliance with USA and against PRC, UAE - engaged in a proxy war in Yemen against Houtis and Islamic Republic of Iran or Qatar - cooperating with Iran and protecting Hezbolah and Hammas terrorists - be neutral?

 

[wellington]

The UK likewise is uninvestable

- Authoritarian Rule
- Wealth Grabs without due process (unexplained wealth orders)
- Asset seizures:Freezers (Russian etc)
- Debt load
- mass migration impacting political stances based on biased approaches driven by religious association
- unstable Govs
- unstable society

Which is important as the separation of overseas territories and the UK is no longer sacred - meaning our offshore financial hubs are no longer safe from multiple vectors

The EU and the US has similar issues

In that world I think it’s important to have liquid bearer assets which are incorporated in states that won’t be impacted so harshly and are important hubs in the middle one being Singapore another being Malaysia and then id say for non banking activities Panama or similar

I’d rule out Caribbean nations as they all route through EU CB or UK BOE or US SDNY

Neutrality requires that all parties percieve and accept that a certain party is politicaly, militarily and economicaly - beside other aspects - equidistanced from or not active on contentious matters. Also, a neutral party can't be aligned or be engaged in any conflict.

How can either Singapore - thru SDF in alliance with USA and against PRC, UAE - engaged in a proxy war in Yemen against Houtis and Islamic Republic of Iran or Qatar - cooperating with Iran and protecting Hezbolah and Hammas terrorists - be neutral?

On the ground Singapore is neutral -> as long as terrorism isn’t involved IMO

 

[koohl]

For that reason alone it’s in a stronger position but Switzerland increasingly follows the EU demands - the EU increasingly IS becoming a surveillance control state coupled with socialism / communism aspects

Ultra Liberalism as I said

Also the direct democracy aspect is weakened - meaning rule of law is weakened as the law is on the whims - by this I reflect on the 2018 vote to never bail out the banking system and in 2021-2022 they ignored this and did it anyway

In times of crisis, especially financial ones, governments sometimes have to make tough decisions that focus on keeping the economy stable, even if it goes against previous promises.

A vote against bailing out the banks might have made sense at the time, but things can change, and not stepping in could have led to serious problems for the economy.

So, the bailout could be seen as necessary to protect the bigger picture, even if it went against what was decided earlier. Plus, in a democracy, we often rely on elected leaders to make complex decisions on our behalf, especially in urgent or unexpected situations.

I think if you researched thoroughly enough, you could find similar arguments for places like Thailand (how Thailand handled its economy during the 1997 Asian financial crisis & IMF) , the Bahamas (how the government handled the aftermath of natural disasters like Hurricane Dorian in 2019), Portugal (how the government handled the 2011-2014 European debt crisis.), Monaco(In the early 2000s, Monaco faced significant external pressure from organizations like the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) to increase transparency in its banking sector), etc. You see and find what you want to see.

 

[wellington]

Ultra Liberalism as I said


In times of crisis, especially financial ones, governments sometimes have to make tough decisions that focus on keeping the economy stable, even if it goes against previous promises.

A vote against bailing out the banks might have made sense at the time, but things can change, and not stepping in could have led to serious problems for the economy.

So, the bailout could be seen as necessary to protect the bigger picture, even if it went against what was decided earlier. Plus, in a democracy, we often rely on elected leaders to make complex decisions on our behalf, especially in urgent or unexpected situations.

I think if you researched thoroughly enough, you could find similar arguments for places like Thailand (how Thailand handled its economy during the 1997 Asian financial crisis & IMF) , the Bahamas (how the government handled the aftermath of natural disasters like Hurricane Dorian in 2019), Portugal (how the government handled the 2011-2014 European debt crisis.), Monaco(In the early 2000s, Monaco faced significant external pressure from organizations like the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) to increase transparency in its banking sector), etc. You see and find what you want to see.

On the bank bail out side

The bank bonds were owned by Swiss but the depositor assets were mostly overseas companies - predominantly US companies.

The Swiss people lost via bond collapse and then paid for the losses of the depositors which inherently were not Swiss.

Thats why a vote was taken as this was common knowledge

And because there wasn’t enough the US Gov then opened swap lines to allow a gradual repayment process due to systematic potential - basically Swiss Central Bank thus Gov of Swiss are now tied to the US monetarily, whilst increasingly subservient politically to the EU.

I.e it’s not just not neutral it’s worse - it’s a puppet of two major powers

 

[koohl]

Alright, I’ve got a question that’s been bugging me so much I feel like my head’s about to explode! How is this whole geopolitical debate ever going to lead to a conclusion about a Swiss Foundation? Do you have anything to add on that? Can what OP is asking actually be done or not? That’s really the question here!

You’re throwing out arguments about all sorts of things that don’t even relate to what’s being asked. No offense, but that belongs in another thread, where I’m sure we could have a long, interesting discussion.

 

[wellington]

Swiss Foundation

They are all related, the Swiss Foundation is obsolete for the following reasons.

Unexplained Wealth Orders (Hidden UBO)
World Wide Asset Freeze Orders (Hidden UBO)

And Geopolitics plays firmly into this, Especially with the alignment politically with the EU, and monetarily with the US.


It's a overpriced sticker saying come and grab the assets.

By all means 'good luck with it', anyone that wants to try it.

 

[wellington]

Hidden UBO with family foundation

You are still getting something from it and they just freeze and seize, the onus is then on the owner (UBO) to dispute no matter how hidden, good luck with that.

Its a overpriced sticker stating "Come grab the assets"

Every transaction, communication, etc is recorded and mapped, they can see all this without having to prove you are the UBO and their seizure laws UEWO allow Seizures of JOHN Doe's without any disputes, its then on the UBO to fight it.

 

[mraleph]

You are still getting something from it and they just freeze and seize, the onus is then on the owner (UBO) to dispute no matter how hidden, good luck with that.

The family foundation UBO is declared. Why should UWO be issue at the first place?

 

[wellington]

The family foundation UBO is declared. Why should UWO be issue at the first place?

Have a look at the UWO's going out, its fishing exercises, piecing the veil for sport

Whats the point of buying into this idea if a month later the Govs just do the UWO's anyway?

Whats the selling point?

C'mon, you're saying that we're all doomed and should relocate to Global South 'cause the Global North will colapse.

No, I haven't told people to relocate to the Global South because the Global North will collapse, i've consistently (and with data) pointed out the Global North pays a 8% fee annually (debasement) to starve off collapsing (like 1929) - that's the cost and the burden.

If you are content with that then by all means remain.

 

[koohl]

Just to wrap it up, you can find just as much about places like Thailand. But personally, I'd rather be in a Swiss prison with TV and luxury than in a dog cage in Thailand.

In recent years, Thailand has had several big asset confiscation cases, mainly tied to corruption, fraud, and financial crimes.

One example is the Stark Corporation case, where authorities seized over 2.5 billion baht worth of assets, including land and bank deposits. This was linked to a fraud scandal involving top executives accused of forgery, embezzlement, and money laundering.

Another case involved a Chinese gang running cryptocurrency scams, where the authorities confiscated around 596 million baht in assets after uncovering financial fraud and money laundering.

On the corruption side, about 88 million baht in assets were taken from officials at the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security for embezzling state funds meant to help the poor

These examples show that Thai authorities are cracking down on financial crime, both from locals and international players, by seizing assets tied to illegal activities.

 

[wellington]

Just to wrap it up, you can find just as much about places like Thailand. But personally, I'd rather be in a Swiss prison with TV and luxury than in a dog cage in Thailand.

I have a mountain home in Swiss?

Whats your point? why does it always come back to Thailand? I lived in HK, Singapore, Thailand, Bahamas, Dubai, Marbella, etc over the years, some of which are still familiar (home).

In recent years, Thailand has had several big asset confiscation cases, mainly tied to corruption, fraud, and financial crimes.

One example is the Stark Corporation case, where authorities seized over 2.5 billion baht worth of assets, including land and bank deposits. This was linked to a fraud scandal involving top executives accused of forgery, embezzlement, and money laundering.

Another case involved a Chinese gang running cryptocurrency scams, where the authorities confiscated around 596 million baht in assets after uncovering financial fraud and money laundering.

On the corruption side, about 88 million baht in assets were taken from officials at the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security for embezzling state funds meant to help the poor

These are all legitimate seizures - what's your point?

 

[mraleph]

Every transaction, communication, etc is recorded and mapped, they can see all this without having to prove you are the UBO and their seizure laws UEWO allow Seizures of JOHN Doe's without any disputes, its then on the UBO to fight it.

I don't intend to offer security services at OCT but I consider myself as an expert in that field. Yes, there is a gargantuan multi-vectored and modal intelligence collection.

But! There is a fundamental difference between Dutch and French idiots using US issued payment cards in their countries of residence and a Liechenstein and Switzerland structured family foundation.

Have a look at the UWO's going out, its fishing exercises, piecing the veil for sport

Every intelligence collection is a fishing exercise

I won't believe as it's simply not truth that we're all gonna be stripped of our assets.

 

[koohl]

I have a mountain home in Swiss?

Whats your point? why does it always come back to Thailand? I lived in HK, Singapore, Thailand, Bahamas, Dubai, Marbella, etc over the years, some of which are still familiar (home).


These are all legitimate seizures - what's your point?

Because I’ve noticed in many of your posts that you keep referencing Thailand, that’s why I’m bringing up these arguments. You’ve repeatedly suggested people move to Thailand or Malaysia, claiming that everything there is better than in the "EUUSSR."

 

[wellington]

These examples show that Thai authorities are cracking down on financial crime, both from locals and international players, by seizing assets tied to illegal activities.

Financial Crime should be clamped down on EVERYWHERE -> Whats your point?

Are you a criminal? are you harbouring the proceeds from a crime? are you trying to hide the proceeds of a crime?

No, then it comes back to the entire point of this feed - the retention of legitimately earned wealth and privacy that comes with it, in Europe, the Gov is more concerned about Wealth appearing than where its from hence UEWO's and Asset seizures/freezes (hence 2m people frozen accounts UK non residents, and then de-banked etc.).

 

[koohl]

I won't believe as it's simply not truth that we're all gonna be stripped of our assets.

Heard!

 

[wellington]

Because I’ve noticed in many of your posts that you keep referencing Thailand, that’s why I’m bringing up these arguments. You’ve repeatedly suggested people move to Thailand or Malaysia, claiming that everything there is better than in the "EUUSSR."

Thats in your head honey.

I won't believe as it's simply not truth that we're all gonna be stripped of our assets.

They did it to 2 million people in the UK between 2022-2023

A lot of them are still in the dark, anyone from non residents to people on benefits, or people associated to countries that are currently in a state of 'political gray-ness' with the UK

 

[mraleph]

Financial Crime should be clamped down on EVERYWHERE -> Whats your point?

Are you a criminal? are you harbouring the proceeds from a crime? are you trying to hide the proceeds of a crime?

No, then it comes back to the entire point of this feed - the retention of legitimately earned wealth and privacy that comes with it, in Europe, the Gov is more concerned about Wealth appearing than where its from hence UEWO's and Asset seizures/freezes (hence 2m people frozen accounts UK non residents, and then de-banked etc.).

It's not Swiss to present wealth publicly. The topic is an Alpine foundation. Why would Swiss or cantonal governments be concerned with wealth appearing?