lol that's so retarded. Europe SUCKS.
Yes that was my understanding as well. Another retarded measure where you don't own any fiat yet still you owe fiat.
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Crypto high 6 fig with no source of funds no tax returns looking to offramp
- Thread starter MrTambourineBTC
- Start date
Yes, as far as I know there is no penalty for not filing the 030 form (besides a max 100€ fine), so a possibility could be:I wasn’t aware that swaps to stablecoins are considered realized gains in Spain—you always learn something new in this forum!If that’s the case, it might be time to pack your bags, change your tax residency, and pray a lot. But DO NOT file the 030.
Leave for Portugal, rent a nice house, get tax residency (and why not NHR 2.0, even thouh I think it's useless for capital gains and dividens unlike NHR 1.0), do all the necessary steps to avoid being claimed by Hacienda (remove ties to Spain -currently house and Spanish bank account), change crypto.com and nexo accounts to my Portuguese residency, and just live life as a Portuguese for the next 4-5 years spending 7 months a year there and doing a little bit of crime the Portuguese IRS won't know or care about to offramp eventually 7 figures (hartd to not get to mid 7 fig in 3-4 years at current pace).
Then cross fingers that I dont get any audit by the greedy Spanish tax man (I shouldnt) and in 2029? file for 030 lol and get a fine once all my Spanish crime has prescribed. Genius plan tbh!
I think it's a solid plan. If I get hit by anything by the Spanish Hacienda at any point I can hit back with my Portuguese tax residency and portuguese future tax returns.
The Portuguese crime would just consist of a little 2k salary coming from crypto via some fake or not so fake company or something like that. That's in order to avoid paying a total of 0€ taxes (since I will be using the long term crypto capital gains tax at 0%), but other than that will try to abide by the law and hopefully find a way to mix some of my crypto "no source of funds" portfolio with the smaller "totally legal" portfolio without doing too much crime and without telling the Portuguese IRS that I held it before being a Portuguese tax resident to avoid problems with Hacienda. Shouldnt be an issue as I don't plan to offramp very soon, don't have any rush while crypto yields remain stupidly high. Only flaw is in case Portugal decides to tackle on 0% long term capital gains, but I don't see why this should happen (Germany also has it for example).
Going directly to Panamá would make things way easier since we could avoid the salary part and just focus on mixing "not source of funds" portfolio with "legal source of funds" portfolio but that would be mostly eventually for the banks, not Panama tax man, as everything pays 0% there. But I don't think that's an option for me and will end up going to Portugal (which already sucks enough tbh).
Also regarding source of funds and the banks, perhaps it would be possible to justify the original "purchases" (I just recieved the money) as I paid in cash in some sort of ATM or something. Other than that, all my onchain history is legit. Grew it in a legit way and never used a mixer.
The Portuguese crime would just consist of a little 2k salary coming from crypto via some fake or not so fake company or something like that. That's in order to avoid paying a total of 0€ taxes (since I will be using the long term crypto capital gains tax at 0%), but other than that will try to abide by the law and hopefully find a way to mix some of my crypto "no source of funds" portfolio with the smaller "totally legal" portfolio without doing too much crime and without telling the Portuguese IRS that I held it before being a Portuguese tax resident to avoid problems with Hacienda. Shouldnt be an issue as I don't plan to offramp very soon, don't have any rush while crypto yields remain stupidly high. Only flaw is in case Portugal decides to tackle on 0% long term capital gains, but I don't see why this should happen (Germany also has it for example).
Going directly to Panamá would make things way easier since we could avoid the salary part and just focus on mixing "not source of funds" portfolio with "legal source of funds" portfolio but that would be mostly eventually for the banks, not Panama tax man, as everything pays 0% there. But I don't think that's an option for me and will end up going to Portugal (which already sucks enough tbh).
Also regarding source of funds and the banks, perhaps it would be possible to justify the original "purchases" (I just recieved the money) as I paid in cash in some sort of ATM or something. Other than that, all my onchain history is legit. Grew it in a legit way and never used a mixer.
that looks like running a business as a professional trader
not all in Europe sucks, it is most often the people living there with their stupid tax rules that sucks! Anyway, you can accomplish lot's of good business in Europe and it's still possible to navigate through all of the s**t going on there, you just need to do proper tax planning and have a good exit strategy.
but if he still has real estate there and want to come back to visit the problem doesn’t really go away by just leaving tho
You can look into Northern Cyprus. It's an unrecognized country, so your home country can't get any information on you (the only country that it exchanges info with is Turkey). Get residency there, and then later you can move the cash from there. The banks here are Turkish subsidiaries, so you can also get a Turkish bank account as well.
You bought additional crypto of an equivalent of 20% of your holdings. You opened 5 bank accounts and showed them this proof while telling them you will withdraw 20% of your crypto holdings. You withdrew 20% 5 times to get 100%.
The percentage in this case is arbitrary, but the point stands.
Do you need to have these bank accounts in different countries?
Or what are the requirements for this "trick" to work?
Look, it is very simple. You have 10 rotten apples. You go to Walmart and buy one apple. You have a receipt of your purchase. You go to your local market and show people the receipt of your new apple from Walmart. They buy it and you give them a rotten one. You do this 10 times, you sold all rotten apples. Of course, it is possible to sell the 10 apples to the same person if they are dumb enough. Of course, it would be smarter to sell it to different people. Would it be worth the hassle to go selling it in a different city? I don't know.
It is the same with the cryptos. You buy and sell legally. You have a proof of selling and thus a proof of fund. You can then run to X banks and deposit that amount with the proof. If the banks have monkeys as @JohnnyDoe calls then, you can do the same show with the same bank X times, every time, you show them the same proof, they will accept and maybe not notice that you used the same paper last time.
A safer solution is thus to deposit it in different banks. If you have X bank accounts that would accept in different countries, even better.
We are talking about how to off-ramp.
About his other issues, I told him many times to run asap
Guys, run from Spain. Now!
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Run is a good plan but if he is a citizen and has real estate they can still go after him or seize his stuff I guess.We are talking about how to off-ramp.
About his other issues, I told him many times to run asap in another thread
Guys, run from Spain. Now!
Yes, I'm fully aware. Would need to find a formula that can work. But I think there are several options in Portugal:
-I read from 2 different sources that you can be fully legal crypto trader and only get taxed on 15% of your winnings IF you only make up to 200k€ net per year. I'm going to quote it:
- Self-Employment Income (Category B): Income from professional trading, mining, or transaction validation is taxed as self-employment income, with progressive rates ranging from 14.5% to 53%, based on total earnings.
Taxpayers covered
Taxpayers whose annual gross income in Category B (business and professional income) does not exceed € 200,000, and have not opted for an organized accounts regime can apply for the simplified regime.
| Sale of goods and products, operations with crypto assets, with the exception income deriving from crypto asset mining, as well as provisions of services in the hospitality, food and beverage sector, except those related to local accommodation establishments | 0.15 |
To me, "operations with crypto assets" could certainly be referred to DeFi activity (trading on chain, airdrop/yield farming, arbitrages, etc.) and you would only get taxed for 15% of your winnings (so about 8% total taxes assuming self employed max bracket). Would need to confirm though.
-Also, in Portugal swaps from crypto to crypto are not taxed, and if you hold any crypto for over a year it's taxed as long term capital gains at 0% Therefore, potentially you could keep your winnings in a stablecoin, hold it for a year, then cash out tax free. (not 100% on this one. would need to investigate more as well).
-And anyway, the tax Portuguese authorities don't understand blockchain at all. You could simply show them a proof that you bought BTC in Binance with EUR for example, then you show them how you sell the same amount of BTC for EUR 13 months later. What happened in between? hehe
Not saying that's what I'm planning to do, as it would probably be unnecessary crime and I think I will be able to find other legal formulas, but the Portuguese tax man is nice and a Portuguese tax consultant told me if you screw up you can simply pay your taxes lol
I think Spanish tax man is the anomaly.
This is all clear to me but I don't understand why the first purchase is made via cash. Wouldn't it make much more sense to simply deposit my 50k€ legal money into Binance for example, buy USDT, and then with that 50k€ purchase simply start withdrawing in 50k€ chunks to several banks? I would have proof of source of funds (via donation) and proof of my purchase of crypto (via Binance txs). Makes sense (Portuguese tax authorities would be a different thing of course)
@MrTambourineBTC yes, you can also deposit legal money if you have that.
For the tax plan, it is risky. When you go to Portugal, I would not withdraw the cash there and declare as little as possible as they may investigate and in the worst case inform the Spanish about the true origin of funds. I would do this later on in Panama or somewhere where nobody cares.
For the tax plan, it is risky. When you go to Portugal, I would not withdraw the cash there and declare as little as possible as they may investigate and in the worst case inform the Spanish about the true origin of funds. I would do this later on in Panama or somewhere where nobody cares.
You should consider moving within the next few months or you will waste 1 entire fiscal year. The more you drag this the less options you are going to have in the future.
There is no clean way to do this, you have to do your fair share of shady stuff to make sure you come out of this clean and the best solution is to leave Europe.
There is no clean way to do this, you have to do your fair share of shady stuff to make sure you come out of this clean and the best solution is to leave Europe.
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