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#61
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clemens said:
What's the alternatives to get this work?
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I don't know (I wish I did). Actually are trying to find out for a future project with potentially similar issues. From what I have seen there are a few options.

1) use a less reputable processor but expect lots of failures for processing
2) setup accounts for different sites and use as intermediaries and churn through accounts and stay under the radar long enough to make use of them
3) make enough sales someone will take your business (i've seen a few of these working with VPN companies and contacted them, but they don't care unless you are doing $100k a month)

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is exhaustive data, just what I have seen so far.

The UK company / merchant route as mentioned above is interesting if can get merchant account who will turn a blind eye, but the privacy (and the unmentioned tax ) implications don't have me convinced yet
 
#62
James2774 said:
Ok yes almost all US accounts will not play with this unless they are lying. I just spoke to cardseriveproviders.com about this and a few other things as I sometimes call other brokers to just see whats going on.
I mentioned organic growth vs fake, he agreed all fake is a no go. He also agreed most "organic" is just fake and mis named so US banks wont touch it. Some organic growers are real, and use jarvee, mother/child f/uf, shoutouts, etc. (not to debate if those work anymore just to show what i mean by growth services)
Those would only be doable out of the US afaik.
Click to expand...

Maybe wording something like "customer engagement mangement services" sounds better. It does (sort of) explain what is being done and avoids the (seemingly) blacklisted words of "social media marketing"

As for setting up fake paypal accounts, how easy is that? What costs are involved, do you need a separate account for each to get the money out of? Do you just transfer it to your own paypal? Same for stripe. What precautions are required? clean IP for each account? vpn / proxy? other things to keep in mind?
 
#63
user9823671 said:
I don't know (I wish I did). Actually are trying to find out for a future project with potentially similar issues. From what I have seen there are a few options.

1) use a less reputable processor but expect lots of failures for processing
2) setup accounts for different sites and use as intermediaries and churn through accounts and stay under the radar long enough to make use of them
3) make enough sales someone will take your business (i've seen a few of these working with VPN companies and contacted them, but they don't care unless you are doing $100k a month)

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is exhaustive data, just what I have seen so far.

The UK company / merchant route as mentioned above is interesting if can get merchant account who will turn a blind eye, but the privacy (and the unmentioned tax ) implications don't have me convinced yet
Click to expand...
So I spoke more today with some other 3rd party merchant account holders. People can run cc processing for pharma, so, clearly we have a way. The secret is really no secret it turns out as I picked his brain, its pretty much what you are leaning to. Collect data on your site, do not integrate any gateways.
Enter data manually to a virtual terminal. Great customer service to avoid chargebacks, however, its impossible to stop friendly fraud.
Next, set up VCC to be charged daily to your terminal, this will keep chargeback ratio down. To do this manually will be time consuming and drive you crazy. Instead, I am going to create a few hundred VCC and set them on a daily autobill, so if i have 5 sales and all 5 are charged back (100% cb ration), my chargeback ratio after I input the VCC charges, will be 1%.
Obviously the number is based on your sales and business model. Running $1/day trial or something, you need a reason to charge your cards.
Cost will be the cost of the VCC issuer/platform, as well as your rate, say 3.5%+15 cents, so you may be paying a few dollars every day. Scale up/down depending on your needs.
Finally, have backup accounts, have 10 gateways if you can, once you start, keep growing your count until you have a nice reserve.
Finally, I would split charges up between accounts so they all grow slowly and warm up. This way, say you are running 50k/month or more and you get shut down, you
1) dont have a large amount of funds frozen
2) you already have accounts with some volume so there is no question about a rapid spike in sales in one day. You dont want to take an account from 0k to 50K overnight. Now you can spread it all out.


This can be done believe it or not with PayPal stealth accounts. I know of someone (this blew my mind) running 100 PayPal accounts each at 1k/month only to keep them all under the radar. With this method do not run VCC for chargback managament as PayPal will see those charges and ban you ha.
Ideally youll need, phone number, email, name/address, SSN, debit card to withdraw to with same name/address, proof of address would be nice too. If you have all you can probably build the account up to larger than 1k/month. Using VPN etc static IP address im sure too but thats not my department of knowledge.

If accounts get frozen, good thing is, funds will be released after 180 days.
 
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#64
user9823671 said:
Maybe wording something like "customer engagement mangement services" sounds better. It does (sort of) explain what is being done and avoids the (seemingly) blacklisted words of "social media marketing"

As for setting up fake paypal accounts, how easy is that? What costs are involved, do you need a separate account for each to get the money out of? Do you just transfer it to your own paypal? Same for stripe. What precautions are required? clean IP for each account? vpn / proxy? other things to keep in mind?
Click to expand...
Im not aware about a stealth stripe, i dont look into it bc stripe is more thorough I think, and PayPal will let small amounts slide without full verification.
You can however use stripe as a virtual terminal, so as mentioned in my prior post, you may add some stripe accounts in that sense to your supply. I dont know if they can be stealth however. Dark? Maybe. owned by a friend who has nothing to lose or someone in a 3rd world country with $100 to hs name that you partnered with? Sure! 3rd part aggregators like Stripe, PayPal etc though seem to be a bit more stringent (disregarding PayPal in small amounts) so Id build up accounts slowly in volume.

Another rule about charge backs besides ratio % is also USD amount. If chargebacks are reaching large $$ amounts its time to cut that terminal off for the month and only fake charge it, as $ amounts will trigger review and put you in a Visa chargeback prevention program/review.

https://chargebacks911.com/visa-chargeback-threshold/
May be updated but thats Oct 2019 post. Thresholds to be aware of to manage your accounts in regards to USD amount, total number of chargebacks, and % of transactions (ie 1 chargeback out of 100 sales is 1% ratio)
Switch temrnals BEFORE you are approaching these limits. One thing ill note is one processor I know lets it slide 2% or more, so there may be looser standards with UK processing.
To my knowledge, the termination of accounts or limitations is up to the banks, not Visa necessarily, but more these are guides for the banks to follow and report/implement. I may be wrong.
 
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#65
Thanks for all the tips.
I want the virtual terminal, so people can make a purchase without a gateway from our site.


I applid on Stripe with my SMM site...they suspended, reviews again...I offered them to disable SMM. They said if you disable it they can approve.
I just disabled it....once approved will add it back.

Is that illegal? Or will they only (like always) suspend the account and in worst case freeze the money for 90d?
 
#66
jrmarketing said:
Is that illegal? Or will they only (like always) suspend the account and in worst case freeze the money for 90d?
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IANAL, but I doubt it is illegal. i.e. they won't prosectute you. But they will disable the account. Warning, they must have you flagged as you were rejected for SMM, now you say you will remove it and they accept, they are not stupid. They know your plan and probably have you a watch list for what you are planning to do.

I would think signing up a new account that is clean from the start is the way to go.


The terminal plan in theory sounds good, but the amount of hassle for that. It is not automated, you are going to have workers to put through these sales? How many a day? I still don't understand how it stops chargebacks. IF someone goes to their bank, they will chargeback - how does that not effect you and whoever is processing the terminal inputs?
 
#67
user9823671 said:
IANAL, but I doubt it is illegal. i.e. they won't prosectute you. But they will disable the account. Warning, they must have you flagged as you were rejected for SMM, now you say you will remove it and they accept, they are not stupid. They know your plan and probably have you a watch list for what you are planning to do.

I would think signing up a new account that is clean from the start is the way to go.


The terminal plan in theory sounds good, but the amount of hassle for that. It is not automated, you are going to have workers to put through these sales? How many a day? I still don't understand how it stops chargebacks. IF someone goes to their bank, they will chargeback - how does that not effect you and whoever is processing the terminal inputs?
Click to expand...


Yes I thought about that ! Leaving it disabled, register, getting approved, once its in ''green status'' I can add the services back.


Can you explain me where I can this virtual terminal?
I thought about something like Payoneer. I have an account there but not yet received $5000 from Fiverr and card processors. But after hitting that $5000 you can use Payoneer for sending invoices or you have a paynow page where visitor has to type receiver email.

Knowing that there is no Payoneer gateway I could make a checkout option and after placing the order people click on the link to make the payment.




Currently my Store has:
1. Stripe (suspended in a few days)
2. PayOp
3. PayPal (Manual payment) to personal account through paypal.me link
4. Unitpay
5. Western Union
6. Bank transfer (to my USA Transferwise account)
6. Crypto
 
#68
jrmarketing said:
Yes I thought about that ! Leaving it disabled, register, getting approved, once its in ''green status'' I can add the services back.


Can you explain me where I can this virtual terminal?
I thought about something like Payoneer. I have an account there but not yet received $5000 from Fiverr and card processors. But after hitting that $5000 you can use Payoneer for sending invoices or you have a paynow page where visitor has to type receiver email.

Knowing that there is no Payoneer gateway I could make a checkout option and after placing the order people click on the link to make the payment.




Currently my Store has:
1. Stripe (suspended in a few days)
2. PayOp
3. PayPal (Manual payment) to personal account through paypal.me link
4. Unitpay
5. Western Union
6. Bank transfer (to my USA Transferwise account)
6. Crypto
Click to expand...

Hi, I checked reviews about Payop and seems bad. How about your experience and how about Unit Pay ?
 
#69
joaomit said:
Hi, I checked reviews about Payop and seems bad. How about your experience and how about Unit Pay ?
Click to expand...

I cant complain about the. fees are of course higher plus you have a rolling reserve. But you can get approved there more likely.
Also for US payments I can't recommend it (too many cards get declined).
I have no issues at all for international payments outside the United States (lets say: my customers from Canada, Australia, UK and Europe) -> Approval rate is not as good as Stripe but acceptable.

Unitpay I dont know, its just my 2nd or 3rd processor. First 4 payments attempts were delclined, Apple Pay worked. Can't really rate them at this moment.
Dashboard and whole site is russian (no english version), also the currency you have on your account is Rubel.
 
#70
jrmarketing said:
I cant complain about the. fees are of course higher plus you have a rolling reserve. But you can get approved there more likely.
Also for US payments I can't recommend it (too many cards get declined).
I have no issues at all for international payments outside the United States (lets say: my customers from Canada, Australia, UK and Europe) -> Approval rate is not as good as Stripe but acceptable.

Unitpay I dont know, its just my 2nd or 3rd processor. First 4 payments attempts were delclined, Apple Pay worked. Can't really rate them at this moment.
Dashboard and whole site is russian (no english version), also the currency you have on your account is Rubel.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for your kindly reply. I was read article about Payop PayOp is rated "Average" with 3.7 / 5 on Trustpilot from Trustpilot and i worried about it. :)
 
#72
#73
blueweb said:
It's not always a good idea to relay on TrustPilot no one is checking if what is wrote at TrustPilot actually is true or if someone just want to spread bad reputation.
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Thanks. I understand. So how can will we believe the services ? We need to try them first or how can we get real information
 
#75
#76
Admin said:
What business do you want to buy?
Click to expand...
I have owned and still own a couple of smm, using my own private payment processors. Maybe OP wants to get rid of them instead of complicating himself trying to find a processor which most will reject.

I can do Flippa, Escrow, etc. Not trying to scam lol.
 
#77
Narco said:
I have owned and still own a couple of smm, using my own private payment processors. Maybe OP wants to get rid of them instead of complicating himself trying to find a processor which most will reject.

I can do Flippa, Escrow, etc. Not trying to scam lol.
Click to expand...


No I am not interested in selling. I will use masking methods (already contacted some php coder)
 
#78
Narco said:
I have owned and still own a couple of smm, using my own private payment processors. Maybe OP wants to get rid of them instead of complicating himself trying to find a processor which most will reject.

I can do Flippa, Escrow, etc. Not trying to scam lol.
Click to expand...

Can you tell us about your private payment processor?
 
#80
Stripe didnt approve me after I disabled SMM services on my site, they are smart and saw that I wanted to trick them :D
I might re-apply in the future with new domain without SMM on the site at all and then add SMM back once I am 100% approved.

Currently I only use PayOp, Unitpay and manual paypal payment.
I might install a masking option shortly. (Contacted a php coder for this)

I have found 3 new processors that accept our business.
One of them accept a UK company with transferwise account !!!!
I Live in Singapore and as soon as the card processor replies I will get this UK company and use this 1 tier country card processor and my Transferwise for payout.
Also I have found a UK high risk card processor (that works since I know a competitor using them), and they accept my Singapore LLC (I have an old LLC in Singapore)
 
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