Bitcoin up above 22.000 $US right now!!!

[nomad999]

False, electricity was being paid, most of the people that don't pay electricity there are "invasores" and those people can't afford mining equipments (the government subsidize electricity it's another point, but it was being paid). They put those miners in Jail because they where suppliers of USDs in the black market and that doesn't help the government utopia of their socialist paradise plus they can steal the equipment and mine themselves (just like with equipment that goes to the frontiers)... And no, they didn't switched their minds because they are blacklisted, they just switched to it because it's a way of making money (and because they were already doing it so why not say it's legal now and start charging/stealing taxes on miners).

Again, you can prevent people from using it but it depends on how totalitarian you want to be. Miners are the easiest to find since you only need to track the electricity consumption increase.

PS: I still recommend lot of people and my family in Venezuela to use cryptos since Venezuelan currency it's a piece of s**t

thx for the correction, very interesting. only read a few articles on this and obviously was crap.

ultimately bitcoin is dependant on the internet so if internet is heavily controlled ultimately it would be possible to greatly impair its usage ...

 

[KJK]

look I am not saying the usd is going into hyperinflation, nobody knows, but still looking at the state of things this is getting worrying ...
btw bitcoin is very popular in venezuela and argentina, I read in venezuela you can even pay your taxes in btc. the law will always change as needed, its literally impossible to prevent people from using bitcoin, there is no way to enforce it. while its impractical for groceries, it is still doable to buy stuff directly with bitcoin peer to peer.

The M2 supply chart is very relevant in my opinion. If anyone cares about official inflation defined by CPI, that makes very little sense. If you are not really in the very low income bracket with most of your income going towards food+accomodation, then your REAL inflation was more like 10 % per year and in 2020 it even increased to 15-25 % per year. Equities going up, rare assets and collectibles going up, select services (such as education, lawyers, house work...) going up. Sure, your new iPhone will have more RAM, a faster processor and it will be cheaper. However, does that really justify the rest to make official CPI to be 2 %? I think not.

And this is if you live in e.g. the United States. If you live in Turkey or Argentina, NOT ONLY the assets went up but EVEN THE CPI (food, services, utilities) went up by 50%+ per year.

I seriously doubt Venezuela would allow anyone to pay taxes in a commodity / foreign currency or Bitcoin. However, the process is always the same - local currency loses value until noone wants to hold it and the citizens use something else instead - in Zimbabwe they use the US dollar now. USD has the big advantage of being the reserve currency (Chinese hold large amounts of US debt and treasuries) as well as being the energy currency (Saudis agreed to trade oil for dollars so that there will always be demand for dollars).

If that changes and US dollar becomes weaker and weaker and loses its worldwide power, that is probably good news for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

the point is despite regular bear market of -85% (about once every 3y so far), on average and over a 3-5 years period bitcoin increase in USD value well over 100% year on year. This is literally the best asset (dare I say currency ?) you could own long term, period.

one fundamental is, the production of bitcoin is reduced by 50% about every 4 years, today there is half less bitcoin being created per day than last april for instance, as the last halving was in May 2020. the current price increase we are witnessing is the direct result of this.

now the assumption that can be debated is, will the demand for bitcoin keep increasing ? that's the bet people like me who put their money in this are making.

Yes, absolutely. Even if you were the biggest idiot in the world and bought at the top in Dec 2017, today you are in the green. No large-scale asset compares to this. You can find small stocks that will become 10-baggers or even 100-baggers but Bitcoin is a worldwide phenomenon that does this again and again - in these four year fractals.

its simple, the more people will jump on the bitcoin train, the more people will want to get in. Metcalfe's law kind of applies in this case, think facebook growth from 1M users in 2004 to 1B users in 2012 but replace user with money.
think about this, someone join facebook and tell their friends to join in, how many friend the average person has ? this is how fast the network will grow.
now with bitcoin its not about the amount of friends but the amount of money you are putting in, how many friends does Paul Tudor Jones bring in when he join facebook ? now how much money is he putting into bitcoin ?
i am badly paraphrasing Michael Saylor here but you can see how bitcoin is prone for an absolute mad exponential growth the like that has never been seen in history. The incentive to join the bitcoin network is infinitely more valuable than facebook, we are talking money here !
don't listen to me, just watch the video I posted above, the guy explained all this in the most brilliant fashion with a very deep knowledge of the financial space.

It is funny that now even institutions can get involved and what is most interesting they can get involved without risk and profit from Bitcoin. The easiest way for the is probably to buy the Grayscale trust (GBTC) immediately when issued, hedge against price drop with futures, hodl for 6 months, sell it and collect the premium. Rince and repeat and the institutions can basically get a risk-free 20-30 % p.a. profit if they know how to do it. Compare that with stupid US treasuries yielding sub 1%.

with this why not use bitcoin as a saving account ? I had CHF as savings for many years and was not living in Switzerland, I had to convert to local currency to do my groceries, guess what ? now I moved to bitcoin instead of CHF !
better than that, I will be borrowing against bitcoin as collateral and will never have to sell my bitcoin !! on top of that bitcoin is literally the best asset to own hands down.

when bitcoin surpassed the market cap of gold it will start to become as volatile as gold and will keep increasing because of the many more properties bitcoin has over gold, guess where the volatility is going as the marketcap incrases ? no more crazy bear market then.

I think this is one of the biggest misconceptions of people who think Bitcoin is hyped by speculation and is a bubble. There really are people who have no need to sell it. If you are a HNWI and you're able to save 99% of your earnings, if you put some amount of it into crypto/Bitcoin, you have no need to sell after a year - given its historical track record. The more rich people come to the conclusion they don't want bonds or gold, the more people will be involved in Bitcoin.

why this will not collapse as some people think ? because the fundamental are rock solid! why would you NOT want to use bitcoin as a long term store of value as oppose to anything else ?

techonology risk ? like what ? an UFO landing on earth to give us infinite energy ? well guess what there is a solution to that too !

There are many technology risks, probably the biggest are 51% attack, quantum computing and transaction censorship. If you consider BTC's game theory, noone really wants to do a 51% attack even if they were able to do it (look at BCH...). Quantum computing is usually mentioned by people who do not understand cryptography but yes, it may force the network to upgrade to something better and theoretically almost all addresses (including Satoshi's coins) are threatened. Transaction censhorship could happen e.g. in mining pools and in exchanges - what can happen is that a bifurcation of Bitcoin will evolve and there will be "nice" and "clean" Bitcoins custodied by someone like Paypal or Revolut and "dirty" self-custody Bitcoin held by regular people.

You can go back to history of countries who tried to control their own currency - usually in the former Soviet block. There was the local currency, only legal tender and exchange to anything else was blocked or heavily regulated. Yet still there were people who somehow managed to get dollars or German marks or Swiss francs or whatever into the country and they were offering it at the real street rate. It was possible to avoid state controls even with fiat money, with crypto the easiness of that is 10x better.

This is where the intellectually-rich debate with BTC holders ends, hence discrediting it. Quickly: do you know which are the 2 best performing stock markets in the world for the last 2 years? MERVAL and BVC. Where? ARS and VEF are their currencies, find out. Check those charts and see their % gain. BTC ill be past 1MM if it matches it. However, do you know why almost nobody in those countries has profited from it, let alone hunger and poverty on the rise? That's right, big/huge currency debasement, like Germany 1922-23. Now, apply that to an scenario where the USD collapses (alongside other FIAT ccies), hyperinflation follows (really big) and BTC is NOT a legal medium of exchange...what will happen to those millions you own in BTC but that you have to cash out in USD/Fiat to LIVE or do your daily things (because storing it does not work anymore as you need to convert them because your salary/earnings are not enough)? That's right...you'll be holding toilet or wheelbarrow (quickly-debasing) paper.

Colombia and Argentina indexes, correct? You say "noone in these countries profited" and that is not true. Let's say I live there and I have two options - keep money in the local cash or buy the local index. I will always do the second option, inflation will go up - but the companies' market cap will also go up accordingly and usually more. So then it is up to the companies' forex position (are they long or short foreign currency in their costs? Are they exporting a lot?).

Take these indexes, use their USD-values and compare it to indexes in some "low inflation" countries such as Japan or Switzerland. You will be surprised that in USD terms these emerging indexes didn't do as badly as you may think. Especially if they are export and commodity countries.

The second part of your text - USD collapses and hyperinflation follows and BTC is not a legal medium of exchange. What will happen to my Bitcoins? Absolutely nothing, I will not be willing to sell my Bitcoin for worthless fiat, same as gold, I will not be willing to sell my gold bar for dollars. You miss the point that many people DO NOT NEED TO CASH OUT out of Bitcoin. It is like a self-reinforcing mechanism combined with Lindy effect. Something better than a central bank controlled currency was created. I do not need to go back to fiat currency, I will use only the absolute minimum of USD possible and I will definitely NOT be holding wheelbarrows of paper money. People already taught this lesson in communist countries back in 1950s.

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

Colombia and Argentina indexes, correct? You say "no one in these countries profited" and that is not true. Let's say I live there and I have two options - keep money in the local cash or buy the local index. I will always do the second option, inflation will go up - but the companies' market cap will also go up accordingly and usually more. So then it is up to the companies' forex position (are they long or short foreign currency in their costs? Are they exporting a lot?).

Venezuela and Argentina, actually. The rest of your text is not applicable as you'll earn whatever profits in the local currency (FX position where?) where the market is traded. Like the Germans in 1922 -and especially- 1923 where they made a billion marks per HALF-DAY, only to cover a loaf of bread at most. I suggest you do a bit more of research, think of a reasonable figure (in local currency) for a middle-class person in any of those 2 countries, invest it, then calculate the end NET profit (after taxes) - I'll even let you do monthly compound if you want-, and come to me and tell me what they MIGHT actually afford with all the earned money. I have already done that, so I'll wait for your answer to engage in a deeper conversation. I'm an FX trader, kind of obsessed with figures, so that's what I do...and when I post anything regarding currencies, I've already done my maths.

Take these indexes, use their USD-values and compare it to indexes in some "low inflation" countries such as Japan or Switzerland. You will be surprised that in USD terms these emerging indexes didn't do as badly as you may think. Especially if they are export and commodity countries.

Like I said, not applicable. Think of the average Joe in those countries trying to make a dime out of the stock market, don't draw useless comparisons with countries where basic salary is $4.5k/month and has a 15% stronger currency than the USD (Switzerland).

The second part of your text - USD collapses and hyperinflation follows and BTC is not a legal medium of exchange. What will happen to my Bitcoins? Absolutely nothing, I will not be willing to sell my Bitcoin for worthless fiat, same as gold, I will not be willing to sell my gold bar for dollars. You miss the point that many people DO NOT NEED TO CASH OUT out of Bitcoin. It is like a self-reinforcing mechanism combined with Lindy effect. Something better than a central bank controlled currency was created. I do not need to go back to fiat currency, I will use only the absolute minimum of USD possible and I will definitely NOT be holding wheelbarrows of paper money. People already taught this lesson in communist countries back in 1950s.

Then I take it you live out of air, congratulations. In the real world, investments are part of a family's cash flow...in the surreal world, investments can be held for 100+ years without ever cashing out...I don't engage in stupid conversation, I did already say that. I suggest a read of 'When Money dies' to understand how stock market's 10000000% return in a year didn't help the average German get past two apples, a loaf of bread and one potato per day...

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

And finally, the M2 chart will become relevant whenever 'they' want it to become relevant. Not a conspiracy theory, but a fact. We're hopeless in a world where big money has pervaded every industry and controls the way we live. If you seriously think M2 is of any relevance, please explain why Japan is still holding the second/third strongest currency in the world, and still much considered a safe-haven asset when things go berserk. I've had this debate with economists worldwide and I have yet to find one simple explanation that, in Da Vinci's terms, shows that one knows what he's talking about. Always happy to learn, though. Oh, and while we're at it, let's talk about the offshore Eurodollar market, then we'll have a clearer picture of things...

Anyway, you won't get me into a fundamental/economic discussion with BTC (macro HFs have already tried that and have failed), but I'll support and congratulate the passionate advocates that will make a killing if their INVESTMENT goes to the moon. If you take it out of the investment thesis and into a macro theme, then I'm out of the chat ;-)

 

[Martin Everson]

Looks like you are at stage 3 Bargaining, just a matter of time before acceptance

Simply a bizarre thing to say...lol. But people have to learn the hard way like I said.

 

[KJK]

Venezuela and Argentina, actually. The rest of your text is not applicable as you'll earn whatever profits in the local currency (FX position where?) where the market is traded. Like the Germans in 1922 -and especially- 1923 where they made a billion marks per HALF-DAY, only to cover a loaf of bread at most. I suggest you do a bit more of research, think of a reasonable figure (in local currency) for a middle-class person in any of those 2 countries, invest it, then calculate the end NET profit (after taxes) - I'll even let you do monthly compound if you want-, and come to me and tell me what they MIGHT actually afford with all the earned money. I have already done that, so I'll wait for your answer to engage in a deeper conversation. I'm an FX trader, kind of obsessed with figures, so that's what I do...and when I post anything regarding currencies, I've already done my maths.

Like I said, not applicable. Think of the average Joe in those countries trying to make a dime out of the stock market, don't draw useless comparisons with countries where basic salary is $4.5k/month and has a 15% stronger currency than the USD (Switzerland).

Then I take it you live out of air, congratulations. In the real world, investments are part of a family's cash flow...in the surreal world, investments can be held for 100+ years without ever cashing out...I don't engage in stupid conversation, I did already say that. I suggest a read of 'When Money dies' to understand how stock market's 10000000% return in a year didn't help the average German get past two apples, a loaf of bread and one potato per day...

Stop being so aggresive and read what I wrote. A person living in Argentina is much better off investing in a local stock index / local company than holding cash.

It was exactly the same story in Weimar Germany before the Nazis came. If you were a middle class German and realized hyperinflation is all around you, you could still put your money in the stock market: Here's What Happened To Stocks During The German Hyperinflation bottom line is that the stocks made a nice profit BOTH in local currency and in US dollars. As a regular German couldn't invest so easily abroad, this was a pretty good option, better than what you suggest.

More recent example can be Argentina and for example a relatively large company called MercadoLibre. In the period between 2013 and 2020:

MELI price rose from 14 ARS to 4088 ARS, gain of 29100 %
ARS inflation was in the 20-50 % p.a. range
ARS monetary supply rose from 520K to 4.4M in millions (so from 520 billion to 4.4 trillion), an increase of 8 times
USD/ARS rate rose from 2.9 to 84.08, an increase of 29 times (i.e. 2900 %).

It is pretty obvious that if you were Argentinian and you invested in a local stock, you are now at least 10 times better off.

come to me and tell me what they MIGHT actually afford with all the earned money

I don't know what I can buy today in Argentina for 4088 ARS but I'm pretty sure I can buy more with 4088 ARS than with 408 ARS.

 

[nomad999]

Simply a bizarre thing to say...lol. But people have to learn the hard way like I said.

There was a smiley there

Look you keep dismissing bitcoin against plenty of valid arguments and strong fundamentals without providing anything othet than your beliefs that it is crap and will fail.
in a few years when bitcoin recovers again and for the fourth time from a crazy bear market and still outperform most of everything averaged yoy, maybe you will consider it differently.

I am only interested of hearing valid arguments or scenario against it really, so far its an ocean of emptiness except for a few ponds of fishes...

 

[Martin Everson]

in a few years when bitcoin recovers again and for the fourth time from a crazy bear market and still outperform most of everything averaged yoy, maybe you will consider it differently.

Never

I dont do speculation.

 

[nomad999]

There are many technology risks, probably the biggest are 51% attack, quantum computing and transaction censorship. If you consider BTC's game theory, noone really wants to do a 51% attack even if they were able to do it (look at BCH...). Quantum computing is usually mentioned by people who do not understand cryptography but yes, it may force the network to upgrade to something better and theoretically almost all addresses (including Satoshi's coins) are threatened. Transaction censhorship could happen e.g. in mining pools and in exchanges - what can happen is that a bifurcation of Bitcoin will evolve and there will be "nice" and "clean" Bitcoins custodied by someone like Paypal or Revolut and "dirty" self-custody Bitcoin held by regular people.

The cost for a 51% attack is way too great and this would only disrupt the network for several days, nothing else.

quantum computing is far from a reality for now, if it happens bitcoin would not be the primary target for whoever has access to that tech, the whole internet rely on cryptography, anything connected to the internet is then vulnerable.

regulations are the only real treat but it would only slow it down and there is an army of very wealthy and smart people to fight the law in the US alone, its not going to be that easy, a lot is at stake for many people now.

a good recent video where Andreas Antonopoulos go in great details on all the biggest treat bitcoin could face, very interesting. at the end there is not much to worry about quite frankly...

 

[Silvio]

You asked for some "fundamental" reasons against BTC, here are a few:

Bitcoin is not a currency, because nobody wants to use it to buy stuff. People just hoard it anticipating that it will keep going up.

Few years ago I was in a BTC fans meetup where the organizers had a bar that was selling beers for BTC. Nobody wanted to buy as they were afraid BTC will go up and they will end up paying 500 EUR for a beer. What good is a currency if nobody wants to use it? Can you imagine someone saying "I won't buy a beer with 5 EUR as tomorrow this EUR banknote will be worth more?" It's a joke...

Bitcoin is not digital gold. It has too high a volatility to be a good store of value. Gold has 5000 years of history as being used as currency. BTC has 12.
Gold is inversely correlated to the stock market, making it a great way to "insure" against market crashes. BTC is directly correlated to the stock market, so it crashes when the stock markets crash- useless for asset allocation.

Bitcoin CAN'T be used by banks. Bank wires\transactions sometimes need to be reversed. BTC transactions can't be reversed, making them useless for banks. Bitcoin is also completely transparent... who will want a bank account that everybody can see online? Would you want everybody to see any transaction you ever did? Didn't think so. If you think Central banks will give nerds the ability to print money you are out of your mind... it will become regulated with strict KYC, therefore losing its appeal. If you have to do KYC, BTC has no value as you can pay and move money just as fast with thousands of other services.

===

Bitcoin is a giant casino. The more people gamble in the casino, the higher the price goes, inviting other people to speculate... in other words it's a ponzi scam as BTC generates no income, has no fundamentals and has no intrinsic value. It has great value if you want to escape capital controls, but that's about it.

Recently there is institutional awareness that led to renewed interest in the casino... so all the sore gamblers that got absolutely raped in 2018 can go back to their fanatic old ways and preach to us how BTC will change the world.

To the BTC bulls, I have a few questions: at what price will you sell your BTC? And would you buy it now? Or is it "too expensive" now...

From my personal experience a huge amount of BTC bulls are simply people that got lucky and bought it for 3k or less, but would never buy any BTC at the current prices. Please share the information so we can find out at what phase of the pump-and-dump you joined..

 

[nomad999]

I just stumble into this, I thought it was funny

I bought more BTC and a shitton of eth above 15k at the top in november, like the moron I am I have been waiting for a dip for months before that ... believe it or not I am now thinking of selling all my other crypto for bitcoin at the high above 30k, this bitcoin run is just getting started, mark my words !!

a currency that cost around 5$ per transaction, wake up everyone has move past the idea of bitcoin being an actual currency, it will become a currency with layer 2 tech and we are a few years away from that still.

Bitcoin is not digital gold. It has too high a volatility to be a good store of value.

did you read what I posted above ? year on year on average bitcoin is up well over 100% over a 3 to 5 year period, this is an absolute store of value, wake up.

Gold has 5000 years of history as being used as currency

did you use gold as a currency recently ?

Gold is inversely correlated to the stock market, making it a great way to "insure" against market crashes. BTC is directly correlated to the stock market, so it crashes when the stock markets crash- useless for asset allocation.

gold crashed like everything else in march ...

Bitcoin CAN'T be used by banks. Bank wires\transactions sometimes need to be reversed. BTC transactions can't be reversed, making them useless for banks

smart contract are coming, if its not bitcoin it will be ethereum or another one. most likely bitcoin layer2. you don't understand how early we are with bitcoin today, so much more is to come with this tech ...

BTC has no value as you can pay and move money just as fast with thousands of other service

try to move money on a saturday evening, you can do that with bitcoin, even bilions $ worth of bitcoin if you can.

If you think Central banks will give nerds the ability to print money you are out of your mind...

decentralized, borderless, peer to peer, censorship resistant, trustless. if you think those fundamentals are a joke, you should think twice.
nobody is asking for permission here

we will see 500k bitcoin during this bullrun, likely to last over 2 years this time. and yes with a few crazy fud "bitcoin is going to zero" event, its going to be a bumpy road so tighten up your seatbelt guys

 

[Silvio]

did you read what I posted above ? year on year on average bitcoin is up well over 100% over a 3 to 5 year period, this is an absolute store of value, wake up.

TSLA went up 700% this year alone. And much more over 3 to 5 year period. is it also a store of value? How about Enron stock or Tulips? They also rose a lot before crashing to their real value

did you use gold as a currency recently ?

You can if you want to.

gold crashed like everything else in march ...

WRONG. By March 25 Gold recovered and went on to rise significantly, and historically it's a great protection against inflation and against market crashes. You are clueless about the facts and it shows.

smart contract are coming, if its not bitcoin it will be ethereum or another one. most likely bitcoin layer2. you don't understand how early we are with bitcoin today, so much more is to come with this tech ...

Yeah I'm hearing about this for years. "It's coming it's coming" Very solid fundamentals you got there
If not BTC then ethereum, then why not buying ETH? Or why not any other of the 1000+ other shitcoins out there? Maybe one of them will make the breakthrough ...LOL

try to move money on a saturday evening, you can do that with bitcoin, even bilions $ worth of bitcoin if you can.

Have you heard of PayPal? Or Skrill? Or 1000+ other EMIs? You could move money very easily also on Saturday evening.

decentralized, borderless, peer to peer, censorship resistant, trustless. if you think those fundamentals are a joke, you should think twice.

Sure, and all the other shitcoin forks offer the same thing as well.
How is this "fundamental" when I can fork BTC tomorrow and call it "MaximCoin" and have all the same "fundamentals" as your beloved BTC?

You are a cult member, and I wish you all the best but your arguments are very weak.

P.S. I'm still waiting for your answer: when will you sell your BTC? I'm asking seriously.

 

[Martin Everson]

believe it or not I am now thinking of selling all my other crypto for bitcoin at the high above 30k, this bitcoin run is just getting started, mark my words !!

You are definitely a cult member....lol.

 

[JackAlabama]

You are definitely a cult member....lol.

Well it has some cultish aspects (which might be also bullish for price as religions / cults can spread fast).

S2F model from planB has some valid points in my view and seems well researched and the guy knows what hes talking about.

 

[nomad999]

TSLA went up 700% this year alone. And much more over 3 to 5 year period. is it also a store of value? How about Enron stock or Tulips? They also rose a lot before crashing to their real value

Tesla doesnt have a fixed share supply that is cut in half every 4 years until 2140 when the supply drop dry.
Enron and the tulips market didn't recover 3 times from 85% bear market over 10 years, did they ?
do I have to repeat the same thing again ? fine here it comes ...
decentralized, borderless, peer to peer, censorship resistant, trustless.
no securities, financial instruments or precious metal have those properties, hmmm oh wait NOTHING ELSE have these properties ... damn I wonder why people find bitcoin so valuable ?
you will never understand something if you don't even try ...

Have you heard of PayPal? Or Skrill? Or 1000+ other EMIs? You could move money very easily also on Saturday evening.

No one would hold significant amount of money on any EMI you know that very well ... lets just ignore the banking system that everyone rely on is open 8h per day 5 days a week.
I must have dreamt a month ago when I missed the window to transfer money out of my bank account on a friday afternoon and had to wait monday morning over 2 days, what a fucking cult member fanatic idiot I am.

WRONG. By March 25 Gold recovered and went on to rise significantly, and historically it's a great protection against inflation and against market crashes. You are clueless about the facts and it shows.

great gold beat the S&P by 10% in 2020 ... what a year wohooo victory !!!
oh wait S&P yield dividends and gold cost 2% custody fees annually, what a fantastic investment and store of value !

Sure, and all the other shitcoin forks offer the same thing as well.
How is this "fundamental" when I can fork BTC tomorrow and call it "MaximCoin" and have all the same "fundamentals" as your beloved BTC?

Sure you can copy bitcoin and name it what you want, its simply open source code at the end.
you forget a little something out there didn't you ? you will have the same fundamentals but not the same adoption ...
how long until your coin reach 500B market cap with 50B daily trading volume and is protected by over 140M hashrate, with a horde of the smartest people on earth working on improving the code ? If you do get there i will gladly invest in your coin because it mean its very valuable !
You comment is very telling how little you understand this, yet you have the strongest opinion possible on it ... why don't you just admit "I don't know" and move on ?

You are a cult member, and I wish you all the best but your arguments are very weak.

A cult member up 300% on bitcoin and over 400% on ethereum in 2020.
up over 100% since my recent significant investment in last november.
So far my research have paid off, but yea sure its gonna crash tomorrow to zero because obviously i am a moron fanatic cult member who believe in fairy tale.
I sincerely couldn't care less of your opinion of me

Yeah I'm hearing about this for years. "It's coming it's coming" Very solid fundamentals you got there
If not BTC then ethereum, then why not buying ETH? Or why not any other of the 1000+ other shitcoins out there? Maybe one of them will make the breakthrough ...LOL

those properties are coming therefore they are not fundamentals, are you even trying ?
bitcoin is absolutely fine at this stage of its development, even if it doesn't improve ever it will still be the best store of value ever. yes without being a currency usable for groceries or the possibilities to reverse transaction, yes its true !
everything else that is to come is an added plus, that mean the value is just going to increase even more as technology around it evolve.

P.S. I'm still waiting for your answer: when will you sell your BTC? I'm asking seriously.

I will sell my crypto when i find something better to hold and grow my capital, believe it or not i try to follow everything else and so far haven't found anything better.
Eventually, if i can somehow figure out the next top and sell before the bear market, i probably will, easier said than done however, especially since recent big institutions involvment in bitcoin.

 

[nomad999]

You are definitely a cult member....lol.

I was pretty clear I am all in on crypto earlier if I am not mistaken ... funny I almost fall in to investing in gold at the beginning of the year, thanks god I didn't !

funny how you never comment on fundamentals when it comes to crypto, its almost as if you don't understand it ...
I can understand though, unlike gold, crypto requires significant amount of research and knowledge to understand the tech and how it work, since you don't seem interested at all to ever understand it I guess you never will ... you will just watch it grow to absolute unbelievable high in your eye and therefore you will keep calling people involved with it "cult member".

I think I mention before that unlike anything of religious nature, bitcoin is code that is based on math and logic.
well in that case, I am a cult member of math and logic, absolutely !

 

[JackAlabama]

You asked for some "fundamental" reasons against BTC, here are a few:

Bitcoin is not a currency, because nobody wants to use it to buy stuff. People just hoard it anticipating that it will keep going up.

Few years ago I was in a BTC fans meetup where the organizers had a bar that was selling beers for BTC. Nobody wanted to buy as they were afraid BTC will go up and they will end up paying 500 EUR for a beer. What good is a currency if nobody wants to use it? Can you imagine someone saying "I won't buy a beer with 5 EUR as tomorrow this EUR banknote will be worth more?" It's a joke...

Bitcoin is not digital gold. It has too high a volatility to be a good store of value. Gold has 5000 years of history as being used as currency. BTC has 12.
Gold is inversely correlated to the stock market, making it a great way to "insure" against market crashes. BTC is directly correlated to the stock market, so it crashes when the stock markets crash- useless for asset allocation.

Bitcoin CAN'T be used by banks. Bank wires\transactions sometimes need to be reversed. BTC transactions can't be reversed, making them useless for banks. Bitcoin is also completely transparent... who will want a bank account that everybody can see online? Would you want everybody to see any transaction you ever did? Didn't think so. If you think Central banks will give nerds the ability to print money you are out of your mind... it will become regulated with strict KYC, therefore losing its appeal. If you have to do KYC, BTC has no value as you can pay and move money just as fast with thousands of other services.

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Bitcoin is a giant casino. The more people gamble in the casino, the higher the price goes, inviting other people to speculate... in other words it's a ponzi scam as BTC generates no income, has no fundamentals and has no intrinsic value. It has great value if you want to escape capital controls, but that's about it.

Recently there is institutional awareness that led to renewed interest in the casino... so all the sore gamblers that got absolutely raped in 2018 can go back to their fanatic old ways and preach to us how BTC will change the world.

To the BTC bulls, I have a few questions: at what price will you sell your BTC? And would you buy it now? Or is it "too expensive" now...

From my personal experience a huge amount of BTC bulls are simply people that got lucky and bought it for 3k or less, but would never buy any BTC at the current prices. Please share the information so we can find out at what phase of the pump-and-dump you joined..

To the scamyc issue I would like to add this.
In places like Venezuela and increasingly now Argentina, they love this stuff and even use it to flip houses now. I just recently got an offer for buying a house in Argieland with btc hehe. And I must agree. It is a much much better way than wiring dollars to an us account for buying stuff in Argentina.
It is even to start eating into the blue dolar exchange system. People there just do not care or actively evade these oppressive communist style control systems which kyc / aml actually is.
This process will start to move towards the west soon. The west got a first taste in 2020 how gov oppression can look like. (The starter of a 5 course menu as to speak).

To the gov people reading here. If you want to kill bitcoin, abolish all kyc / aml requirements and let people open bank accounts by providing just an email.

 

[nomad999]

btw consider this :
never selling your bitcoin ever never forever ! ad vitam aeternam !
you can get over 5% apy on it and you can borrow against it.

wonder what effect that could have on the price if many people do this ... oh wait ? up maybe ? noooo impossible this garbage fake internet money is going to zero ! ahah those stupid cult member idiots are going to lose everything !

 

[Martin Everson]

funny how you never comment on fundamentals when it comes to crypto, its almost as if you don't understand it ...

What fundamentals of bitcoin....lol? There are no fundamentals to bitcoin (a piece of code) . The arguments and methods that bitcoin shills use to pump the price and disparage dissident voices does not work with me. I never jump on the bandwagon or follow a trend. I am glad you are writing in public your feelings about bitcoin becoming a world reserve currency etc so people can see the ludicrous nature and mind set of a bitcoin fanatic.

There is no argument that will convince a bitcoin nut sadly and I know this....lol. It's like trying to reason with a Daesh (ISIS) member intent on blowing himself up in front of you - its never gonna work. Most bitcoin cult members are too deep and too far gone mentally.

 

[nomad999]

What fundamentals of bitcoin....lol? There are no fundamentals to bitcoin (a piece of code) .

so where do you think the 500B market cap, 50B daily trading volume and over 140M hashrate comes from ? cult members like me ?
damn we are so many, I didn't know !

Long term Bitcoin is on track to become the world reserve currency, what is there to complain about ?

This is what I said, that does not translate to a cult member belief that bitcoin will become world reserve currency in the near future, you can stop that now thanks ... you are being absurd here.
now is there a chance ? yes absolutely ! when if ever ? more than a decades if not two !

you are just ignoring the facts, nothing else ... if you weren't so abrasive in the first place I wouldn't feel the need to defend myself and possibly look like a "cult member" ...

You can't argue rationally against the fundamentals of bitcoin, you know it that's why you don't try.

There is no argument that will convince a bitcoin nut sadly and I know this....lol. It's like trying to reason with a Daesh (ISIS) member intent on blowing himself up in front of you - its never gonna work. Most bitcoin cult members are too deep and too far gone mentally.

you are pathetic.