Listen to me. First, you leave Europe. Second, you come back here and we will help you with offramping.
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Crypto high 6 fig with no source of funds no tax returns looking to offramp
- Thread starter MrTambourineBTC
- Start date
Yes, or Andorra, Monaco, Germany etc. But don't come cry once they told the Spanish guys that you actually held it while you were there and would have been subject to tax. You have made enough money, so you do no longer need to live off social welfare.
It’s real—there’s a specific division within the Spanish Tax Agency (Agencia Tributaria) internally known as the “030 team.” Not joking.
That said, it’s true that the likelihood of scrutiny increases if you “relocate” to certain jurisdictions like Andorra, Portugal, Gibraltar, the UK (although now that the non-dom scheme is over, this may relax), Monaco, Cyprus, Malta, or Italy. These countries are often targeted because it’s easier to simulate residency there.
If you’re curious, there’s also another “special operations” team known as “los zoneros.” They focus on Spanish individuals who claim to have moved to the Canary Islands and set up a “Zona ZEC” company to benefit from the reduced 4% corporate income tax rate instead of the standard 25%.
I’ve heard there’s another team, often referred to as los peluqueros, which allegedly handles cases involving offshore residents who spend significant time in Spain. The Spanish tax authorities use this to argue that such individuals should be classified as Spanish tax residents. The name los peluqueros might stem from how tax investigators reportedly gathered evidence in the Shakira case, following her daily for 12 months and documenting her frequent visits to a hairdresser in Barcelona to support their claim that she was a full tax resident in Spain.
That said, it’s true that the likelihood of scrutiny increases if you “relocate” to certain jurisdictions like Andorra, Portugal, Gibraltar, the UK (although now that the non-dom scheme is over, this may relax), Monaco, Cyprus, Malta, or Italy. These countries are often targeted because it’s easier to simulate residency there.
If you’re curious, there’s also another “special operations” team known as “los zoneros.” They focus on Spanish individuals who claim to have moved to the Canary Islands and set up a “Zona ZEC” company to benefit from the reduced 4% corporate income tax rate instead of the standard 25%.
I’ve heard there’s another team, often referred to as los peluqueros, which allegedly handles cases involving offshore residents who spend significant time in Spain. The Spanish tax authorities use this to argue that such individuals should be classified as Spanish tax residents. The name los peluqueros might stem from how tax investigators reportedly gathered evidence in the Shakira case, following her daily for 12 months and documenting her frequent visits to a hairdresser in Barcelona to support their claim that she was a full tax resident in Spain.
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Sorry about hijacking this thread a little bit but I think this will be a good piece of additional information to the topic if answered.
I am not from Spain but from the EU, where do you suggest to go? I know EU is really messed up and they are obsessed with constant theft, redistribution, etc. etc. yet I cannot locate a safe alternative
I read here and see Paraguay, Dominican Republic, and so on. these places are good to go for my winter holiday when I get cold, still I cannot imagine a full time residence there. Simply they don't really feel safe, statistics show that too, the lifestyle is also different and even more so in some other Carribean places.
I found Uruguay a bit more comfortable in some way but it is not super tax effective compared to the usual mentioned choices.
So far I only really felt good about Georgia and using the really minimal tax individual entrepreneurship while continuing to receive from the foreign companies with substance. I guess Georgia is at risk with RU and this is not the right area for political talks, anyways it seemed like the most acceptable.
Or do you have some other picks that make sense?
But the current NHR 2.0 doesn't include capital gains or dividends, right? It's only for income tax from what I digged into it.
I was very close to going for NHR + Malta/cyprus in 2023 but I had a lot of uncertainties and in the end didn't end up pulling the trigger. If I went back in time I'd surely go to Portugal with nhr + malta/cyprus company with enough substance. I know more about the Portuguese IRS and a good enough setup would be very very safe in my opinion.
For crypto cash out? Georgia would be one of the right places, plenty of 'kiosks' offering cash for USDT, as well as lots of telegram groups. Some even pay you 0.5% for that, instead of charging you a fee, as sometimes they are in need of USDT. Bulgaria used to do the same, as Turkey too, but I am not sure about the current situation. And there are other gems as Montenegro and Albania, too.
Otherwise, the usual suspects in Asia. For full time: PH, KH, VN, MY, TW, MU, for <6 months per year: TH, JP, ID.
If you prefer South America, Panama seems like a simple choice, Nicaragua is a much cheaper and adventurous option, and Equador is something in between. Well, and PY if you don't need beaches. You could also look into República Oriental del Uruguay, but as it looks a little too boring, I haven't looked into the details.
Well if I want a permanent solution to my ever growing crypto portfolio "problem" at some point I'm going to have to leave. There's no other way around it.
The only way they could hurt me with an audit would be by linking 15-20k of yearly expenses for the last 4 years (through nexo/crypto.com debit cards) with wallets from which I made the tx to crypto.com/nexo, and then accuse me of those being my wallets. Afaik that is unheard of right? How can they prove those wallets belong to me. Afaik wallets (at least until mica comes into play in a few days) are pseudonymous...
I've been quite anxious since I read that message of yours about 030 + high risk of audit tbh
I felt that worst case scenario I go to Portugal and have to sell my house but that's about it, but if you add the added risk of getting audited that's pretty bad. Still can't figure out what to do.
You seem to mention that other destinies like Panamá would make me less likely to get audited, that would be cool but sadly it's not really an option for me.
How do you succeed with the transaction by now? You must have found a good solution to do so or are you still in the look out for some documents or company stucture you get the thing done smooth and quick ?
Have you paid capital gains tax on your crypto earnings?
And for the card spending, have you read this
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cour...eking-information-about-dutch-residents-using
I tell you once more before they get you in jail: run, mow!
Yes, that amounts to 20,000 times 4, which equals 80,000 in undeclared earnings. This could result in approximately 20,000 in taxes owed (assuming they were capital gains and not income tax) plus a fine of up to an additional 20,000. Overall, it’s not an excessive amount.
It's not uncommon for authorities to discover undeclared earnings and subsequently send notices or requests to electronic money institutions (EMIs) and providers like Nexo, if the accounts are linked to your ID via KYC providers. Not uncommon neither to request Onfido, AMLBot and Sumsub, in which EMIs and exchanges you validated your ID
Pep
Hey there,
Still planning that move to Spain or Portugal with your crypto? Here's a simple way to think about it:
My Recommended Steps:
- Company: First off, setting up a company (like a US Delaware LLC, a Portuguese Lda, or a Spanish SL or any other limited liability company in other country – we can figure out the best fit for you). Now with brand new company name get business IBAN account in well known bank and also some fintech bank account with multicurrency (could be useful in the future) and some crypto exchange accounts. Note than have a real business plan for the company and create a company website is a must.
- Move the Crypto: Next up, you'd move the crypto you're planning to use for buying, selling, or investing into the company's crypto wallets/exchange accounts. Then, you can transfer some of that to the company's online bank account and maybe even a bit to a regular bank with a branch near where you're thinking of living.
- Loan Smart: A smart move can be getting a loan in the company's name, using your crypto (or even the fiat you've moved) as collateral. This lets you use that value without selling your crypto right away, which can be a tax win. Plus, your crypto/fiat investments can keep growing! Some of the newer fintech or online banks are making this easier.
- Spend Wisely: With that loan money, you can buy whatever you're after – cars, real states, or investments in stocks, bonds, derivatives whatever you're into.
- Direct Crypto Sale: If you'd rather just cash out some Bitcoin directly, we can handle that too. We can buy your crypto and send Euros to your bank account (depends on the amount, of course) we can use the P2P feature of any crypto exchange. Makes things super simple.
- Investing & Property Help: Once you've got Euros (whether from a loan or selling crypto), that's where I can really help. I run a Family office desk here in Spain, helping families manage their wealth. My fee is based on how well your investments do (performance fee), so we're on the same team. We can figure out the best way to invest in traditional stuff (stocks, bonds, commodities, derivatives, etc.) and, since I used to be a real estate agent, I can even help you find a great property in Spain or Portugal.
Cheers,
Yeah if s**t hits the fan I'm totally ok with paying that fine, like I mentioned what worries me deeply is them accusing me of those being my wallets, and saying I owe them a huge amount in taxes. But I don't think as things are today this would be possible for them and not sure if that would be even legal. So I'm leaning towards going to Portugal yes.Yes, that amounts to 20,000 times 4, which equals 80,000 in undeclared earnings. This could result in approximately 20,000 in taxes owed (assuming they were capital gains and not income tax) plus a fine of up to an additional 20,000. Overall, it’s not an excessive amount.
It's not uncommon for authorities to discover undeclared earnings and subsequently send notices or requests to electronic money institutions (EMIs) and providers like Nexo, if the accounts are linked to your ID via KYC providers. Not uncommon neither to request Onfido, AMLBot and Sumsub, in which EMIs and exchanges you validated your ID
Pep
You really seem to have deep knowledge of how Spanish hacienda works, more than any consultant that I have paid so far haha
Yes luckily there's nothing else that ties me to KYC. Never used KYC cex (nor linked fiat tx to any cex). The only link is the debit card withdrawals to crypto.com and nexo...
They can't prove you own a certain wallet if you never gave proof of ownership to an exchange using your own ID.
This will change TOMORROW with the "travel rule", I actually got a really nice email from Kraken explaining how they plan on enforcing this total nonsense:
thats is not true though? in Spain, crypto swaps do count as taxable events (BTC to USDT, etc). and that's all I've been doing for 4 years, trading, airdrop farming, yield farming,arbitrages... I mean I've been all overthe place, probably tens of thousands of defi transactions.
I'd be extremely extremely happy to be wrong though. Can't stress how amazing that would be. That's mostly why I was so anxious after hearing that after presenting 030 form there's a high chance you get audited.
Swaps are realized gains. You can read the article I posted a few posts back:
https://www.blockpit.io/tax-guides/crypto-tax-spain
You also failed to report the holdings.
Listen to me, run!
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