Wise during KYC asks me about money sent from my company account to...my mother.

[karishi]

They spend most of their days browsing the web in order to find their next victim. Then they prepare the “operation” and one day, in the early morning, show up at the victim’s house to execute it.
They love to harass naive and defenseless people.

I think every country is different, and while in Italy on a fiscal trial it's you that you have to prove that you are innocent and not the state that has to prove that you are guilty, it's still a civil trial and that normally takes 10 years to complete. Then they have to get your money, that's why mostly all big famous trials ( Valentino Rossi and such ) ended up with an off the court agreement. So I'm certain that they are looking on the internet, but I''m also certain that there is a certain threshold you have to cross to make you a fish that they want to catch, because catching you requires work, and there might be bigger fishes to catch. Also in italy delation is not common, while in other countries it's the norm, because in italy mostly everybody performs some degree of fiscal crime, and even if you don't, if you want to live a quiet life, you mind your own business.
And of course they start at the top: if you paid taxes in italy for 10 years, and they know how much money you were declaring in italy, they have more data on you: that's why they offer you a 70% tax discount if you go back to working to italy, because they f**k you in the long run. Most of the controls is on people putting residency back in Italy after living abroad. A friend of mine who owns 4 houses in London, went back to milan with the fiscal discount, when they discover the houses and the fiscal discount is over, they will f**k him well...

 

[Martin Everson]

Looking at random posts on the internet? Just like that? Orrr..?

Actually what @JohnnyDoe says is almost certainly true. For example HMRC in UK already do this all day long and some countries go much further.

https://www.kinsellatax.co.uk/12-ways-hmrc-can-find-out-if-are-a-tax-evader/
And I quote verbatim from a HMRC letter they once sent me years ago as a non-dom (sorry long story).

"HMRC may observe, monitor, record and retain internet data which is available to anyone. This is known as 'open source' material and includes news reports, internet sites, Companies House and Land registry records, blogs and social networking sites where no privacy settings have been applied"

 

[KDX]

Actually what @JohnnyDoe says is almost certainly true. For example HMRC in UK already do this all day long and some countries go much further.

https://www.kinsellatax.co.uk/12-ways-hmrc-can-find-out-if-are-a-tax-evader/
And I quote verbatim from a HMRC letter they once sent me years ago as a non-dom (sorry long story).

"HMRC may observe, monitor, record and retain internet data which is available to anyone. This is known as 'open source' material and includes news reports, internet sites, Companies House and Land registry records, blogs and social networking sites where no privacy settings have been applied"

The people working at those agencies truly are power tripping psychos... lol.

 

[JackAlabama]

Sounds like the GdF is a kind of "legal mafia"...

That is accurate. But due to the culture there, you better keep your head down and do not draw attention. Which includes living from month to month and not being flashy.
Since pretty much everybody including cats don't declare their income correctly, there is just too much going on and one can vanish in the waves.

Better just be a tourist chilling there for the summer.

 

[karishi]

That is accurate. But due to the culture there, you better keep your head down and do not draw attention. Which includes living from month to month and not being flashy.
Since pretty much everybody including cats don't declare their income correctly, there is just too much going on and one can vanish in the waves.

Better just be a tourist chilling there for the summer.

I remember a conversation during a trip to Geneva between the ( extremely rich ) father of a friend of mine and a couple of swiss. I was around 10. People always wonder what is so wrong in Italy, and they were discussing tax evasion, and they were saying: "how is it possible that in Italy nobody pays taxes?here in switzerland if I suspect someone is evading taxes I would call the police and he would be fined and shamed for life." And the father of my friend had a hard time explaining to them that in italy is the opposite, you are a hero if you evade taxes and if someone has a friend that works in the police or GDF, they will do whatever possible to warn you in advance that they are investigating on you. It was quite a long time ago, but things have not changed much. And having worked abroad for the last 10 years, I always have a hard time explaining what's wrong in italy, because basically it's everything, the country works exactly in the opposite way that an anglo saxon country works.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I remember a conversation during a trip to Geneva between the ( extremely rich ) father of a friend of mine and a couple of swiss. I was around 10. People always wonder what is so wrong in Italy, and they were discussing tax evasion, and they were saying: "how is it possible that in Italy nobody pays taxes?here in switzerland if I suspect someone is evading taxes I would call the police and he would be fined and shamed for life." And the father of my friend had a hard time explaining to them that in italy is the opposite, you are a hero if you evade taxes and if someone has a friend that works in the police or GDF, they will do whatever possible to warn you in advance that they are investigating on you. It was quite a long time ago, but things have not changed much. And having worked abroad for the last 10 years, I always have a hard time explaining what's wrong in italy, because basically it's everything, the country works exactly in the opposite way that an anglo saxon country works.

It’s no longer like that. Generations change… today there’s a widespread social hate in Italy and everyone seems only interested in damaging others, especially those who are wealthier.
Nobody pays all the taxes in Italy because it is simply impossible to survive if you do. Some time ago a court acquitted a tax evader for this exact reason: if he paid all the taxes due, he would not have had enough money left for running his business.

At the same time, if you are an illegal immigrant you will receive free money and food. If you are too lazy to work, you will receive a monthly “reddito di cittadinanza” just for sitting on your couch.
The budget for instruction and research has been cut from 4% to 3.5%, while that for the military has been increased and weapons are regularly sent to Ukraine - against the constitution - because a non-elected government so decided.
Last but not least, since early 2020 Italy is in a “state of emergency”, because of Covid first and Ukraine then. This basically allows the government to bypass the constitution.

It’s probably better not to go to Italy even just as a tourist!

 

[JamesDonkey]

but in Italy ( and I think in all europe ) the tax authority doesn't get notified about transactions below 10k EURO. so 4 transactions a year of around 5k do not trigger any automatic alarm.

Is it 10k EUR per transaction, or in sum per year?

If per transaction, theoretically, you could send her 100 ones of 9k EUR and nobody would care?

 

[boomy]

What they ask for is totally normal. Paysera and Spectrocoin both have asked me the same questions in the past!!

 

[karishi]

Is it 10k EUR per transaction, or in sum per year?

If per transaction, theoretically, you could send her 100 ones of 9k EUR and nobody would care?

per transaction, but banks are allowed, at their own discretion, to signal transactions if they look like a bigger split transactions. So if you send 10 transactions of 9k EUR in the same day, to the same receiver, it's likely this will be considered suspect, while 10 transactions in 10 months should not be considered suspect ( once in a famous italian hospital I paid for a surgery and the bill was split in 9890 euro with credit card and 5k in cash in an envelope... )

 

[Barbanera33]

yes I will stop now, it has been a stupid idea all along, sometimes you do things and you don't think about the consequences. In any case we are talking about pocket money 10/15k a year. She is 73, retired, makes 50k a year from welfare, the old italian welfare, the tax authority came knocking when she bought a house, but she had done the first fiscal shield where you could bring to italy any amount of money you had abroad and pay 4% to clean it...

50.000k from welfare in italy it's a shitload of money, congrats ahah

 

[JohnnyDoe]

50.000k from welfare in italy it's a shitload of money, congrats ahah

There are pensioners who receive this money since they were in their 40s… others that receive the same amount on a monthly basis… Italy is a broke country slave of the EU

 

[karishi]

50.000k from welfare in italy it's a shitload of money, congrats ahah

it's before the pension reform, when your pension was calculated as 80% of your last salary, not based on what you actually put into the system. The good old days where it actually made sense to work in Italy, now it's basically nonsense. Like JohnDoe said some people were able to get good pensions at 40....