Wise closed an account with 100.000 uds in it after approving my request

[JohnnyDoe]

@JohnnyDoe is the kind of guy who goes around recommending people to deceive financial institutions and to provide false information to them, and is then acting all shocked and surprised when banks keep closing his accounts.

Yes I recommend that because it is the only way to satisfy the nonsensical requests of financial institutions. The best way to deal with scammers is to scam them.
In fact, all my accounts that were closed were 100% legit and fully compliant with the T&Cs of the bank/EMI. Wise in particular closed all my accounts after I completed a transaction that was carefully planned with them.

@Sols And @rowena should better talk if they have real first hand experience, not reporting hearsay. By real experience I mean running multiple businesses.

 

[rowena]

@Sols And @rowena should better talk if they have real first hand experience, not reporting hearsay. By real experience I mean running multiple businesses.

I wrote my real first-hand experiences, multiple businesses, multiple years and multiple millions of usd turnover.

- Yes I recommend that because it is the only way to satisfy the nonsensical requests of financial institutions. The best way to deal with scammers is to scam them.
- In fact, all my accounts that were closed were 100% legit and fully compliant with the T&Cs of the bank/EMI.

You even contradict yourself.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I wrote my real first-hand experiences, multiple businesses, multiple years and multiple millions of usd turnover.

Lucky you, so far.

You even contradict yourself.

Where?

Are you an agent of Wise? If not, stop misleading people: Wise is one of the worst EMIs out there. Nobody cares if you are a multi millionaire running dozens of Wise accounts, as it doesn’t help at all the members of this forum.
People must be aware that Wise closes legit accounts randomly, without any reason, and act accordingly.

 

[rowena]

Lucky you, so far.

I don't think it is about luck and it is not only Wise. I also with other big EMIs without any issues.

Where?

If you provide falsified information to financial instition, then you can't say you have 100% legit business.

Where?

Are you an agent of Wise? If not, stop misleading people: Wise is one of the worst EMIs out there. Nobody cares if you are a multi millionaire running dozens of Wise accounts, as it doesn’t help at all the members of this forum.
People must be aware that Wise closes legit accounts randomly, without any reason, and act accordingly.

No, I am not an agent of Wise

I understand that from your posts, you provide falsified/forged information to financial institutions. This is enough reason to account closure or more and yes my posts don't help people in situations like this.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

If you provide falsified information to financial instition, then you can't say you have 100% legit business.

Try to read and understand what I write. The accounts that were closed were 100% legit.
In fact, none of the accounts I use with fake websites/accounting/contracts/invoices/nominees ever had a problem, because the fake information I feed the bank/EMI with is built with the exact purpose of satisfying their compliance. Whilst the underlying businesses are 100% legit, I hide them behind fake ones so the psycho monkeys in the compliance departments are happy.
Of course this same setup can be and routinely is used by criminals, and banks/EMI will never catch them. The only thing that they are able to do is to close legit accounts or act as wannabe policemen and hit the small guy who sent money to his mother or didn’t declare a few thousand € of profits.

No, I am not an agent of Wise

I understand that from your posts, you provide falsified/forged information to financial institutions. This is enough reason to account closure or more and yes my posts don't help people in situations like this.

You didn’t understand any of my posts, congrats

 

[rowena]

As far as I see, you really don't understand how financial institutions work because you still think fake documents can be used to satisfy them. Anyway, I don't have this kind of strategy and I never had any problems with EMIs. This is my experience.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

As far as I see, you really don't understand how financial institutions work because you still think fake documents can be used to satisfy them. Anyway, I don't have this kind of strategy and I never had any problems with EMIs. This is my experience.

Being doing this for over 10 years. I used to work in a bank (quite high in the corp ladder). I guarantee that good fake documents will satisfy any bank’s compliance department as long as you use them in the right way. Remember that today you end up working in a bank’s compliance department only if you are a young lawyer at your first work experience or if you are unable to find a better job, for example as a janitor.
I hope that you have backups in place for your EMI accounts and don’t keep too much money in them.

 

[Sols]

@Sols And @rowena should better talk if they have real first hand experience, not reporting hearsay. By real experience I mean running multiple businesses.

From my own experience (own businesses) and those of clients I work with, no problem with six and seven figure figure businesses running through Wise. They occasionally ask for new KYB or ask about SOF, which we are always prepared to answer in full and in a timely manner.

The secret is that the businesses that use Wise are businesses which fall within Wise's AUP and follow their TOS. That's literally all it takes.

I don't expect you to agree or understand, but you asked so that's my answer.

 

[Forester]

I guarantee that good fake documents will satisfy any bank’s compliance department as long as you use them in the right way. Remember that today you end up working in a bank’s compliance department only if you are a young lawyer at your first work experience or if you are unable to find a better job, for example as a janitor.
I hope that you have backups in place for your EMI accounts and don’t keep too much money in them.

Well... Quite sad – but mostly true, I am afraid

From my own experience (own businesses) and those of clients I work with, no problem with six and seven figure figure businesses running through Wise. They occasionally ask for new KYB or ask about SOF, which we are always prepared to answer in full and in a timely manner.

I believe you. It definitely can happen.

The secret is that the businesses that use Wise are businesses which fall within Wise's AUP and follow their TOS. That's literally all it takes.

Well – yes. But I still claim that it happens that (IMO quite frequently) Wise makes a false assumption that the business breaks AUP/TOS and then serious troubles begin...

 

[Sols]

Well – yes. But I still claim that it happens that (IMO quite frequently) Wise makes a false assumption that the business breaks AUP/TOS and then serious troubles begin...

I'm not saying compliance teams at institutions like Wise never make the wrong call. It certainly happens that financial institutions misunderstand a business and get things wrong. I just haven't had it gone so far as to yield an account closure. That's why it's important to be as transparent as you can when opening and when maintaining a company account. Don't give the financial institution a reason to misunderstand you. If anything, give them a reason to determine you aren't a good fit long before it's a problem.

Aside from banks shutting down, the only account closures I have faced have been due to a business no longer fitting the financial institution's AUP after a change either in the business or in the AUP. Some of those have been stressful with only 30 days to move the money (usually extendable if you ask and don't use the account for any other incoming/outgoing transactions).

I take this and the experience of peers into account when people like JohnnyDoe throw around nonsense like financial institutions closing accounts at random. I don't know how things were in the banks he held a C-level or director position before he moved to his multi-million dollar mansion in The Bahamas, but in the last couple of years compliance has climbed to being one of the highest cost centers at financial institutions. It simply doesn't make commercial sense to close accounts at random. There is always a reason behind it — whether the account holder agrees with it or not.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

There is always a reason behind it — whether the account holder agrees with it or not.

The reason is compliance evaluation metrics. Banks/EMIs MUST close a certain % of the accounts to look good.
And they don’t care about turning away “good” clients, because they are irrelevant to their profitability.

before he moved to his multi-million dollar mansion in The Bahamas

If you like it, for $1.6m it can be yours today! Crypto welcome and you get a 5% discount.

 

[Sols]

The reason is compliance evaluation metrics. Banks/EMIs MUST close a certain % of the accounts to look good.
And they don’t care about turning away “good” clients, because they are irrelevant to their profitability.

It's strange that I have missed this obligation in any communiques from central banks and financial service authorities, nor has it ever come up during any board meeting at financial institutions I've attended. None of the compliance officers or compliance managers I interact with seem to know about this requirement. I've had the opportunity to read AML and compliance policies of several financial institutions, and they all also seem to have missed this.

I'll make a note to bring it up next time, though. Maybe they just haven't implemented this new requirement yet.

If you like it, for $1.6m it can be yours today! Crypto welcome and you get a 5% discount.

Will a photoshopped copy of a SWIFT message do?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

It's strange that I have missed this obligation in any communiques from central banks and financial service authorities, nor has it ever come up during any board meeting at financial institutions I've attended. None of the compliance officers or compliance managers I interact with seem to know about this requirement. I've had the opportunity to read AML and compliance policies of several financial institutions, and they all also seem to have missed this.

I'll make a note to bring it up next time, though. Maybe they just haven't implemented this new requirement yet.

Keep trusting banks and EMIs and supporting their cause if this makes you happy. I guess your name is Christine, otherwise I can’t explain how you can jump from board meeting to board meeting and interact with all those officers.

Will a photoshopped copy of a SWIFT message do?

Since you can’t send the real thing, that will buy you a photoshopped photo of the property.

 

[Sols]

Keep trusting banks and EMIs and supporting their cause if this makes you happy.

I'm the one without a history or randomly closed accounts. You're the one who keeps having to lie to banks.

Or maybe I'm just lucky I haven't been affected by the mandatory account closures banks are apparently obligated to. But I asked around and all I'm getting back from people in the industry are variations of LOL and face palms. It seems no one has heard of this mandate before. If only they had your wisdom! I suppose ECB, Bank of England, Singapore MAS, CIMA, and others are going to start pulling licenses left and right any day now due to banks not randomly closing the required percentage of accounts.

I guess your name is Christine, otherwise I can’t explain how you can jump from board meeting to board meeting and interact with all those officers.

My criminal record isn't anywhere near exciting enough to be Mrs. Lagarde's. I'm just lucky enough to see the belly of the beast first hand every so often.

Since you can’t send the real thing, that will buy you a photoshopped photo of the property.

Deal.

 

[Forester]

@Sols & @JohnnyDoe:
Really a nice discussion, colleagues

My two cents:
I do not think (no proofs, just it does not make sense to me) that banks and EMIs close accounts at random; they do have some reason. I also do not believe that they attempt to fulfill some % obligation for closures. (It could have sense under some totally incompetent and mad regulator but I do not think it happens.)
Having said that, I do think that in many cases the reason for freezing/closure of an account is totally mismatched, based just on a false assumption of some clerk or even some artificial intelligence (that is, in fact, dumb). I believe that “in the last couple of years compliance has climbed to being one of the highest cost centers at financial institutions” but I also know that (at least in many cases) low-level clerks are underpaid, overloaded – and not very competent, especially in bigger and big institutions; so they prefer simple-and-easy solution before careful thinking (and they are covering their asses, as well as their superiors, of course). I suspect that as the institution is getting bigger, the situation is getting worse. Taking into account that especially Revolut & Wise apply a model “first shoot - then call”, i.e. freezing accounts and after that eventually asking questions, a horror story is ready-made.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

banks and EMIs close accounts at random; they do have some reason.

They have some excuses, not reasons.

I also do not believe that they attempt to fulfill some % obligation for closures. (It could have sense under some totally incompetent and mad regulator but I do not think it happens.)

What would happen to a bank that never closes any account?
Regulators are indeed totally incompetent and mad.

Having said that, I do think that in many cases the reason for freezing/closure of an account is totally mismatched, based just on a false assumption of some clerk or even some artificial intelligence (that is, in fact, dumb).

Of course. For example, I successfully operate a Revolut account for some years now, because I know how idiot they are and I will not do anything (even if fully legit) that will trigger the freezing.
I had the bad idea of thinking that Wise was run by competent people, but I was wrong. I repeat again: they closed my 100% legit accounts and all the other 100% legit accounts that I operated after I executed a transaction that was planned in advance with Wise compliance, according to the details provided by them.

I believe that “in the last couple of years compliance has climbed to being one of the highest cost centers at financial institutions” but I also know that (at least in many cases) low-level clerks are underpaid, overloaded – and not very competent, especially in bigger and big institutions; so they prefer simple-and-easy solution before careful thinking (and they are covering their asses, as well as their superiors, of course). I suspect that as the institution is getting bigger, the situation is getting worse.

The bigger the worse, and the easier for criminals to exploit them.

Taking into account that especially Revolut & Wise apply a model “first shoot - then call”, i.e. freezing accounts and after that eventually asking questions, a horror story is ready-made.

Their mission is not to serve the customer. They are probably just concerned about cooking their books.

 

[Forester]

They have some excuses, not reasons.

Nicely phrased

What would happen to a bank that never closes any account?

Well – yes; a regulator would probably suspect them for not being attentive. But really, I do not think there is some %. Common errors and misunderstandings make quite enough of closures

I had the bad idea of thinking that Wise was run by competent people,

So did I, in the past.

but I was wrong.

The same for me

I repeat again: they closed my 100% legit accounts and all the other 100% legit accounts that I operated after I executed a transaction that was planned in advance with Wise compliance, according to the details provided by them.

Just a silly question: Did you try to appeal?

The bigger the worse, and the easier for criminals to exploit them.

Their mission is not to serve the customer. They are probably just concerned about cooking their books.

 

[SirGRA]

Hi,

My own experience with the "not so" Wise EMI, Belgian bank or whatever they call themselves in modern days.
For four years, everything worked fine without any incidents.

We run a 100% legit business (IT Consulting and Software Development), with dozens of actual employees (all in Europe), complying with taxation, social insurance, and European legislation.
A month ago, without warning or any communication whatsoever, we got the business bank account deactivated and our employees' accounts.

My strong advice is if you run a legit business, search the market for a big bank, even if it costs a few bucks more and stay away from these scamming EMIs, particularly Wise.
Honest businesses already have to worry about complaining about stupid new legislation every six months in Europe.

So I backup 1000% @JohnnyDoe when he says, "Stay away from Wise". It's unWise, risky and stupid.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Just a silly question: Did you try to appeal?

Yes and I received the standard copy/paste answer saying that unfortunately bla bla bla…

Hi,

My own experience with the "not so" Wise EMI, Belgian bank or whatever they call themselves in modern days.
For four years, everything worked fine without any incidents.

We run a 100% legit business (IT Consulting and Software Development), with dozens of actual employees (all in Europe), complying with taxation, social insurance, and European legislation.
A month ago, without warning or any communication whatsoever, we got the business bank account deactivated and our employees' accounts.

My strong advice is if you run a legit business, search the market for a big bank, even if it costs a few bucks more and stay away from these scamming EMIs, particularly Wise.
Honest businesses already have to worry about complaining about stupid new legislation every six months in Europe.

So I backup 1000% @JohnnyDoe when he says, "Stay away from Wise". It's unWise, risky and stupid.

Terrible experience, I sympathize with you.
You might want to give Bunq a try, so far all good with them.
Maybe you qualify for Aion, good experience so far.
Your employees could also consider Nuri (only personal accounts).
Blackcatcard card is good for me, but not for everyone as they are in Malta and some banks don’t like to send money there (and who cares about IBAN discrimination).
Paysera was good until they entered into politics.

But my best advice is: switch to crypto. This is the right moment to do it, thanks to wise.

 

[SirGRA]

Thank you post and all the alternative suggestions, @JohnnyDoe.

We'll give Bunq and Aion a try for business accounts.
Nuri was indeed the alternative and is in use by our employees.
Blackcard looks pretty nice.

Crypto indeed could be the answer. Unfortunately, it is pretty challenging to use it for paying our employees (accounting and compliance).
But definitely, we are looking into it.