Who are the most aggressive and least aggresive tax authorities?

[saintjohnny]

Spanish "Hacienda" is the devil .
Tax Agents get compensated just to file a claim, even if later on nothing happens (approximately 52% of the lawsuits don't get anywhere if you go to court,) but they will try to get you by threatening you with jail time. Then you can decide if you want to pay or if you want to go to Court and fight your case (most people pay.)
They don't care if they are destroying your life, they want your money, as much if it as possible.

Correct but this is easily solvable by not living in Spain. Stay out of that dump.

 

[Radko]

Correct but this is easily solvable by not living in Spain. Stay out of that dump.

I'm in the process of selling my home so I can finally give the finger to the government, a Socialist/Communist government that hasn't stopped hiking taxes so they can spend more and more money on worthless programs even if Spain has a debt to GPD of 115% (that's according to the useless government) when in reality the Spanish GDP is much lower than what the government says it is, so the debt to Real GDP is around 120%~125% (Spain is broke.)

I can't wait to leave this place! Living in Spain was awesome, somehow the country started going down the drain, relying purely on tourism and nothing else.

I'm glad I have the means to leave and never look back (most of my wealthy friends have left already.)

 

[blancmon229]

I can't wait to leave this place! Living in Spain was awesome, somehow the country started going down the drain, relying purely on tourism and nothing else.

Yeah, unfortunately Europe became only a holiday destination, and a home for illegal immigrants. Sadly it's only going one way and that is to s**t.

On top of that you have aggressive tax agencies, who do not care if they ruin your life even though there is no tax liability to be paid. I left a similar EU country which turned to a shithole as well, so good luck with your journey.

 

[Radko]

Yeah, unfortunately Europe became only a holiday destination, and a home for illegal immigrants. Sadly it's only going one way and that is to s**t.

On top of that you have aggressive tax agencies, who do not care if they ruin your life even though there is no tax liability to be paid. I left a similar EU country which turned to a shithole as well, so good luck with your journey.

Thanks!

You only live once, there is no point in staying in the EUSSR anymore, the good days are gone that's for sure (easy to predict where Europe is heading.)

Luckily for us there are many other countries around the world who are happy to welcome foreigners without demanding that they pay ridiculous taxes (most people will work just to pay taxes for well over 50% of their working life's in exchange for a hand to mouth pension.)

I'm glad this forum exists!

 

[FixieHartmann]

I'm in the process of selling my home so I can finally give the finger to the government, a Socialist/Communist government that hasn't stopped hiking taxes so they can spend more and more money on worthless programs even if Spain has a debt to GPD of 115% (that's according to the useless government) when in reality the Spanish GDP is much lower than what the government says it is, so the debt to Real GDP is around 120%~125% (Spain is broke.)

I can't wait to leave this place! Living in Spain was awesome, somehow the country started going down the drain, relying purely on tourism and nothing else.

I'm glad I have the means to leave and never look back (most of my wealthy friends have left already.)

Where are you moving to?

 

[myhand]

You can count Denmark and Sweden to the most aggressive Tax authorities in the World. If you start making money they will be happy, if you reach some threshold (say above 500K DKK or SK) they will come and let you swallow deep.

 

[Radko]

Where are you moving to?

I've checked a lot of countries...

-Dubai, it's a city in the middle of the desert, few months out of the year it's extremely hot, it's expensive. No thanks, and it's quite fake for my taste.
-Cyprus, Malta, small islands, no thanks.
-South of Italy, just as bad as Spain, and too touristic. Plus Expensive!
-Thailand, too much of a culture change, far away, and the new Elite Visas are too expensive .
-There are other places that don't fit my criteria, not worth mentioning (Costa Rica, Belize, Uruguay, Paraguay, Caribbean islands, Eastern European countries...)

So I'll be living between Panama (territorial tax system) and Mexico, both close to the US, cheap, great quality of life, more freedom, not much of a culture change (speaking Spanish should make life easier,) great flight connections, good schools...
Tequila here I come!

As Martin Luther King famously said...

“Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty we are free at last.”

 

[wellington]

I've checked a lot of countries...

-Dubai, it's a city in the middle of the desert, few months out of the year it's extremely hot, it's expensive. No thanks, and it's quite fake for my taste.
-Cyprus, Malta, small islands, no thanks.
-South of Italy, just as bad as Spain, and too touristic. Plus Expensive!
-Thailand, too much of a culture change, far away, and the new Elite Visas are too expensive .
-There are other places that don't fit my criteria, not worth mentioning (Costa Rica, Belize, Uruguay, Paraguay, Caribbean islands, Eastern European countries...)

So I'll be living between Panama (territorial tax system) and Mexico, both close to the US, cheap, great quality of life, more freedom, not much of a culture change (speaking Spanish should make life easier,) great flight connections, good schools...
Tequila here I come!

As Martin Luther King famously said...

“Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty we are free at last.”

Granted the Elite Visa has doubled since 2019 (500k, -900/1m THB).

But that actually works out roughly the cost of travelling to another country every three months, or what ever to apply for a new visa inc flights, hotel etc.
Cheaper obviously if you go in a van with the mouth breathers

Aside from that, culturally, its what you want you have that asian-western mix, and if you just want western you can have it for 90% of your requirements dependent.

The biggest drawback in Thailand is 'low income Europeans/Brits/Australians' that essentially live in Thailand doing illegal work and get by, by fucking over other expats... head to a bar and think they own the place because they spend about 50-100k a month in the country.

Then of-course there's the sex pats... read a post yesterday about one getting advice for genital warts... yuk.

These people should be priced out IMO.

 

[Radko]

Granted the Elite Visa has doubled since 2019 (500k, -900/1m THB).

But that actually works out roughly the cost of travelling to another country every three months, or what ever to apply for a new visa inc flights, hotel etc.
Cheaper obviously if you go in a van with the mouth breathers

Aside from that, culturally, its what you want you have that asian-western mix, and if you just want western you can have it for 90% of your requirements dependent.

The biggest drawback in Thailand is 'low income Europeans/Brits/Australians' that essentially live in Thailand doing illegal work and get by, by f*****g over other expats... head to a bar and think they own the place because they spend about 50-100k a month in the country.

Then of-course there's the sex pats... read a post yesterday about one getting advice for genital warts... yuk.

These people should be priced out IMO.

I know a few people that are living in Chiang Mai and they love it!
So I started checking Chiang Mai, everything seemed perfect (cheap, beautiful surroundings, nice local people, many speak decent English...) but then I found out about the smokey season (the air quality is as terrible as you will ever experience) which is not really a problem if you go south to the beach for a few months of the year until the smokey season is over... But then it has the RAIN, it rains a lottt, months without stopping, I don't want to live with an umbrella over my head for half of the years.

So at least for now Mexico & Panama will be our home, both have easy to get, cheap residency visa options!

 

[Mercury]

The biggest drawback in Thailand is 'low income Europeans/Brits/Australians' that essentially live in Thailand doing illegal work and get by, by f*****g over other expats... head to a bar and think they own the place because they spend about 50-100k a month in the country.

Then of-course there's the sex pats... read a post yesterday about one getting advice for genital warts... yuk.

These people should be priced out IMO.

Like everywhere else in the world, if you can afford it and ready to pay the price there are plenty of exclusive places in Bangkok. No need to mix with the you named it "low income Europeans/Brits/Australians that essentially live in Thailand doing illegal work and get by" crowd if you can't bear it.

Same with the sexpat scene, out of the red district areas you won't cross much of this kind of people.

Now if you like to attend low-class venues and wandering in red zones then it's indeed an issue as people usually match the place.

 

[getmeout]

Does anyone have any experience with the NTA (Japanese tax authorities)?

High taxes aside, the country has a lot of benefits for someone residing there if you like the country and I'm curious what they're actually like to deal with. Are they fair and stick to their own rules or is it more like how some posters describe spain?

If anyone has any first hand experience dealing with them I would love to know.

 

[jafo]

Does anyone have any experience with the NTA (Japanese tax authorities)?

High taxes aside, the country has a lot of benefits for someone residing there if you like the country and I'm curious what they're actually like to deal with. Are they fair and stick to their own rules or is it more like how some posters describe spain?

If anyone has any first hand experience dealing with them I would love to know.

I heard Carlos Ghosn is giving expert advice (this is NO joke), but you can see what some say here: Japan tortured me and America did nothing, says Carlos Ghosn accomplice Michael Taylor

If you keep to yourself and pay the top amount you are supposed to pay, I guess you will be alright. I have a friend who is a top banker married to a Japanese lady and with kids living in Japan. When we meet overseas, e.g. Hong Kong, he says: "As long as you know your place and do as you're told, you'll have NO problems."

Of course, YMMV

 

[blancmon229]

Does anyone have any experience with the NTA (Japanese tax authorities)?

High taxes aside, the country has a lot of benefits for someone residing there if you like the country and I'm curious what they're actually like to deal with. Are they fair and stick to their own rules or is it more like how some posters describe spain?

If anyone has any first hand experience dealing with them I would love to know.

Barely anyone speaks English. I have friends who lived there for a few years and then left because it is not possible to fit in as a foreigner even if you speak the language.
It is common to hear "When are you leaving" in Japan when you tell someone you are going to live there because most people leave. All things aside depending on what region you travel to there are nice people, good nature and good food.
Not sure about the taxes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are strict and dilligent just like the Japanese.

 

[Radko]

Does anyone have any experience with the NTA (Japanese tax authorities)?

High taxes aside, the country has a lot of benefits for someone residing there if you like the country and I'm curious what they're actually like to deal with. Are they fair and stick to their own rules or is it more like how some posters describe spain?

If anyone has any first hand experience dealing with them I would love to know.

A friend of mine settled down in Japan early this year and he told me Japan has a program where you can spend 5 years in Japan and not pay taxes, I don't know the details of that program by this should help. (No doubt Japan is an incredible county with a very rich history & culture - my friend is loving it, so far...)

https://www.japanlivingguide.com/living-in-japan/government/incometax/

 

[Sols]

A friend of mine settled down in Japan early this year and he told me Japan has a program where you can spend 5 years in Japan and not pay taxes, I don't know the details of that program by this should help.

Japan applies worldwide taxation to permanent resident only. It takes five years to become a permanent resident. During those first five years, foreign-sourced income is only taxed if remitted to Japan.

I think it might be technically possible reset it every 10 years. Five years in Japan, five years somewhere else, back to Japan to repeat the cycle. Permanent residence is defined as five years of residence in the last ten years. Not sure that's viable in reality, though.

The NTA is aggressive. Best not to give them a reason to come after. Tax evasion is a criminal offence and Japan famously has a very, very high conviction rate (99.9%) once they prosecute someone.

 

[getmeout]

Japan applies worldwide taxation to permanent resident only. It takes five years to become a permanent resident. During those first five years, foreign-sourced income is only taxed if remitted to Japan.

I think it might be technically possible reset it every 10 years. Five years in Japan, five years somewhere else, back to Japan to repeat the cycle. Permanent residence is defined as five years of residence in the last ten years. Not sure that's viable in reality, though.

The NTA is aggressive. Best not to give them a reason to come after. Tax evasion is a criminal offence and Japan famously has a very, very high conviction rate (99.9%) once they prosecute someone.

I can imagine they would be quite competent but if you are following the rules is there really an issue? I hear Japan's conviction rate on crimes is in part to the fact they don't really prosecute until they have perfect evidence. Not to say things are always perfect in any system of course but there are plenty of examples in the west that are similar to the things I hear japan critiqued for.

Gains arising from sale of stock are taxed at a total rate of 20.315% (15.315% for national tax purposes and 5% local tax). This is quite reasonable compared to other western countries.

When you say they're aggressive, do you mean aggressive in pursuing people who have actually broken rules or aggressive like western authorities are in pursing people who are wealthy simply out of envy (like the horror stories of guilty until proven innocent)?

Basically how well is the rule of law respected over there?

 

[Don]

So what ChatGPT knows about the topic?

1. **Audits:**
- **United States** - The IRS has a magnifying glass bigger than Sherlock's, especially for those rolling in the dough.

2. **Data Analysis:**
- **United Kingdom** - HMRC's "Connect" system is like the MI6 of tax; it knows when you've been naughty or nice.

3. **Penalties:**
- **Australia** - The ATO doesn't believe in being fashionably late. Tardiness could cost you a pretty penny!

4. **Prosecution:**
- **Germany** - Even if you're a celebrity, if you play hide and seek with taxes here, you're on the spotlight (and not the glamorous kind).

5. **Public Awareness:**
- **India** - Sometimes, the tax department plays the town crier, shouting, "Hear ye, hear ye, these folks didn't pay their due!"

6. **International Cooperation:**
- **France** - Ever the gracious host, France loves inviting international pals for some tax tea and cooperation.

7. **Third-party Reporting:**
- **Canada** - The CRA loves a good gossip, especially when banks spill the beans about your stash.

8. **Seizing Assets:**
- **Brazil** - "Oh, you won't pay your taxes? Well, we fancy that car of yours."

9. **Strict Legislation:**
- **South Korea** - Their tax laws change more often than fashion trends. Blink, and you'll miss the latest.

10. **Whistleblower Programs:**
- **United States** - IRS to whistleblowers: "Help us catch the sneaky ones, and we'll make it worth your while!"

11. **Frequent Updates:**
- **China** - "Changed the tax code, AGAIN?!" is a common refrain. Better stay on your toes!

Tax doesn't have to be taxing, especially with a touch of wit!

 

[Sols]

I can imagine they would be quite competent but if you are following the rules is there really an issue?

For one, I got my numbers wrong before. The cycle would have to be 15 years, not 10. 5 years in Japan, then 10 years somewhere else, then back to Japan for 5 years assuming you can become a non-permanent resident again.

2030–2035: resident in Japan (territorial tax with remittance basis)
2035-2045: permanent resident in Japan (full tax) or relocate somewhere else
2045-2050: resident in Japan (territorial tax with remittance basis)
2050–2060: permanent resident in Japan (full tax) or relocate somewhere else

I hear Japan's conviction rate on crimes is in part to the fact they don't really prosecute until they have perfect evidence. Not to say things are always perfect in any system of course but there are plenty of examples in the west that are similar to the things I hear japan critiqued for.

Indeed, which I why I added "once they prosecute someone." What I meant to imply is that — based on my limited understanding — you can negotiate more with HMRC, Nordic tax authorities, and even the IRS than you can with NTA.

When you say they're aggressive, do you mean aggressive in pursuing people who have actually broken rules or aggressive like western authorities are in pursing people who are wealthy simply out of envy (like the horror stories of guilty until proven innocent)?

Guilty until proven innocent is a thing in non-western countries, too. Japan has it, for example.

But, no, from what I've gathered, NTA is not a bully like how for example France, Spain, or Italy can be at times. In Japan, plan as if every law in effect can and will be enforced. If you do that, you'll likely never be bothered.

 

[getmeout]

For one, I got my numbers wrong before. The cycle would have to be 15 years, not 10. 5 years in Japan, then 10 years somewhere else, then back to Japan for 5 years assuming you can become a non-permanent resident again.

2030–2035: resident in Japan (territorial tax with remittance basis)
2035-2045: permanent resident in Japan (full tax) or relocate somewhere else
2045-2050: resident in Japan (territorial tax with remittance basis)
2050–2060: permanent resident in Japan (full tax) or relocate somewhere else


Indeed, which I why I added "once they prosecute someone." What I meant to imply is that — based on my limited understanding — you can negotiate more with HMRC, Nordic tax authorities, and even the IRS than you can with NTA.


Guilty until proven innocent is a thing in non-western countries, too. Japan has it, for example.

But, no, from what I've gathered, NTA is not a bully like how for example France, Spain, or Italy can be at times. In Japan, plan as if every law in effect can and will be enforced. If you do that, you'll likely never be bothered.

That's actually not so bad, especially considering their capital gains tax is more reasonable than Australia for example. A short term trade can inch close to 50% tax here.

I can respect a place that outlines it's rules clearly and does not unfairly deviate from them, but also expects you to follow them in turn. It makes things more straightforward, unlike what I've read about in the west where people get bullied because they seem rich and therefore must be up to no good.

I do hear Japan can be a hard country to live in depending on what you want out of a place but for some people it might offer what they want. It's got safety unlike many western countries, no sharia law but also does not appear to have western family court where your girlfriend is considered your wife. Rated pretty good for medical care and would have a nice mix of cities that always have something open and countryside with stunning nature. On paper at least there seems to be a lot of benefits that may be worth paying a small amount of tax for, at least in comparison to European tax rates.

If anyone's got first hand experience with Japan I would love to hear about it, never seems to get mentioned on here.

 

[jafo]

If anyone's got first hand experience with Japan I would love to hear about it, never seems to get mentioned on here.

I lived in Tokyo, Japan for almost 5 years (early 2000s) with the excuse to learn Japanese (immersion), but in reality, I was there to purchase products in Akihabara to sell to my clients in America (both North & South) and in Europe. For me, it was Elysium as I like to be left alone and not bothered, so no complaints here. Nobody bothered me and I didn't bother anyone either. I'm extremely asocial to the point that the Japanese were inviting me out to try to get to know me better. I declined most of the time. If you enjoy sashimi (maybe not now anymore? ) and like to be safe & secure on the streets and learning a new language, I definitely recommend Japan.

Oh yeah, the tax exemption was icing on the cake. Also, I went to class every single day! Never missed one day of class...just in case I was being "watched"

In Japan, behave as if your life depended on it...actually, the same as I do in China. Assume you are being watched & followed. Govern yourself accordingly.

PS. Below, you can confirm that I really svck at photography too!