Which countries don't have public UBO registers?

[Martin Everson]

I also happen to live there my friend.

How unfortunate .

Yes there is no way of determining the real UBO and it relies on trust. If it was possible people will have found Putin's wealth by now. However if you choose to go down the road of concealing the true UBO be sure to take precautions that's all I can say on that.

 

[Gediminas]

How unfortunate .

Yes there is no way of determining the real UBO and it relies on trust. If it was possible people will have found Putin's wealth by now. However if you choose to go down the road of concealing the true UBO be sure to take precautions that's all I can say on that.

I agree with that. There are ways to hide real UBOs. But entering the false information to the documents would be a NO GO for sure.

 

[Willblack]

I agree with that. There are ways to hide real UBOs. But entering the false information to the documents would be a NO GO for sure.

Of course....what is "false" however is open to interpretation as pretty much anything written in legal language.

How unfortunate .

Yes there is no way of determining the real UBO and it relies on trust. If it was possible people will have found Putin's wealth by now. However if you choose to go down the road of concealing the true UBO be sure to take precautions that's all I can say on that.

It's not too bad really. It's probably down to preference but I can't stand western Europe and could never live there except MAYBE Berlin.

Your third sentence is exactly what I was trying to demonstrate since I've seen all sorts of people not be a "legal" UBO of a given business for all sorts of reasons starting with....hiding wealth from their neighbors and ending with being a secret media oligarch while at the same time being a member of parliament.
It's extremely stupid, it really is and for the life of me I can't understand why the hell do they even bother writing those silly directives....

Anyways we went waaaay too off topic, but the point I was trying to make to the OP was simply that it's extremely easy in practice to have no legal connection and full practical control of a company.

 

[Martin Everson]

Anyways we went waaaay too off topic, but the point I was trying to make to the OP was simply that it's extremely easy in practice to have no legal connection and full practical control of a company.

I don't disagree with this.

 

[hernanday]

Obviously, classic offshores fit the bill, but they're becoming more and more useless, as far as i can tell. What countries other than that don't have public free/paid access to information about companies UBOs and/or directors?

Canada, you can have nominee director, and nominee/anonymous corporation shareholder, you are not asked to provide the UBO.

 

[hernanday]

Some people considered to simply use nominees, homeless mexican, poor people in the baltic countries or similar to hide your identity? you can pick up someone of these guys, give him 500 euro, some nice and clean clothes and take him with you in the bank and tell him to sign whatever they say.

Pretty easy and fun.

People laugh, but it is a good strategy, although I'd prefer to use someone where there is some continuity, like an small accounting firm or small law firm. That way if the person dies you're not but out.

 

[Btraveler]

Hello there guys,

About all this issue, you can find a jurisdiction with no UBO disclouse, but the problem is ALWAYS you can't get a bank account Without letting know the bank an UBO of the Company Bank account. That's the main problem

On the other hand, building a company made for 5 other companies (each one with less 25% of shareholding) I think puts you in the same problem --> you can't get a bank account Without letting know the bank an UBO of the Company Bank account.

 

[pierino]

How about Cyprus? Does it have a public and easily accessible UBO registry?

 

[Btraveler]

Hello @pierino the problem is the same. It doesn't matter if your appear as UBO of the company. The important thing is who is the BANK ACCOUNT UBO

 

[pierino]

Hello @pierino the problem is the same. It doesn't matter if your appear as UBO of the company. The important thing is who is the BANK ACCOUNT UBO

It depends. but nevertheless, i wonder if in cyprus it's possible to list the UBOs of cypriot companies for either mere mortals or tax departments?

 

[Spinat]

How about Cyprus? Does it have a public and easily accessible UBO registry?

Yes they have a public register so it's a no go. What I can see Seychelles, Belize, Bahrain and a few more don't, but how to get any banking or EMI for it.

 

[Sols]

Cyprus does not have a public register of UBO. For the time being, you only directors and shareholders are public.

It is not yet clear how the EU mandated UBO register will look in Cyprus. The government seems to want it as private as possible.

 

[sullyferdinand]

Canada, you can have nominee director, and nominee/anonymous corporation shareholder, you are not asked to provide the UBO.

You are always asked to provide UBO details before registering the company, unless you are working with a very weird registered agent / corporate service provider who doesn't give a F about the rules

Then, if there is a register (private or public) that's another story

 

[hernanday]

You are always asked to provide UBO details before registering the company, unless you are working with a very weird registered agent / corporate service provider who doesn't give a F about the rules

Then, if there is a register (private or public) that's another story

No, it is a European thing. USA and Canada have not yet adopted UBO disclosures. Although the tax terrorist are trying to force it.

 

[JohnLocke]

No, it is a European thing. USA and Canada have not yet adopted UBO disclosures. Although the tax terrorist are trying to force it.

Yeah, it seems that they are not really pushing for that to happen, we have already discussed this last year and there is nothing new about them speculating on making UBO visible in the corporate register.

 

[sullyferdinand]

No, it is a European thing. USA and Canada have not yet adopted UBO disclosures. Although the tax terrorist are trying to force it.

the Division of Corporations (USA) or Registraire of Entreprises (Canada) do not have a register of UBOs (yet) however a serious agent will ask for this details as this is part of the due diligence

 

[hernanday]

the Division of Corporations (USA) or Registraire of Entreprises (Canada) do not have a register of UBOs (yet) however a serious agent will ask for this details as this is part of the due diligence

I can't speak for what an agent would or could do, I've never used one to register a company, but I have created companies in those jurisdictions and was not asked by the government workers for UBO, nor do I recall any such question on the forms stating that it has to be disclosed.

 

[hernanday]

Yeah, it seems that they are not really pushing for that to happen, we have already discussed this last year and there is nothing new about them speculating on making UBO visible in the corporate register.

Correct me if I am wrong but did the house democrats not pass a bill forcing UBO disclosure in the current session (2018-2020) that got blocked by Republican Senate?

 

[clemens]

I have the feeling that there is a user in this forum solely to tell how correct everything should be and how jumbled it all is when things do not go according to the book. It's a joke and I have to say you landed on the wrong forum.

 

[Btraveler]

I can't speak for what an agent would or could do, I've never used one to register a company, but I have created companies in those jurisdictions and was not asked by the government workers for UBO, nor do I recall any such question on the forms stating that it has to be disclosed.

Again, the problem is not if a company in Canada, USA or Vanuatu is private and don't discloses UBO's. The problem is that when you signup in an EMI or for a Bank account, you'll have to disclose that details on UBO and they are who, in fact, will report you to your country