where to store value?

[countryfree]

Going back to the subject, it's clear the EU isn't a good place to store value anymore. Except maybe for Chinese people. I left the EU to bank in Switzerland, then I left CH to go to Montenegro and Albania. I was in MNE last week, and I met several people who were highly enthusiastic about joining the EU, except a crazy woman who was wearing a Putin sweat shirt (I think she was Serb). But I don't mind MNE joining the EU, I can easily move to Asia...

 

[JimBeam]

P.s I wish someone would do a Warren Buffet type challenge and invest $1,000 in the S&P 500 and the other party invest $1,000 in bitcoin.

Do you invest in S&P 500 or similar indexes?

 

[Martin Everson]

Do you invest in S&P 500 or similar indexes?

I would not invest in S&P 500 because its unethical to do so when it contains half a dozen arms defense/manufacturers etc. I would look at i.e the S&P 500 ESG Index or similar if you were going down a long term route.

I don't invest in equity markets in general as the entire global markets are in a bubble and everything is so overvalued. You would be better of shorting the markets with long dated out the money Put's ready for 2020 US elections .

 

[Satoshi]

Crypto
Property
Gold
Diamonds

Cash will lose value with inflation

 

[Martin Everson]

Crypto
Property
Gold
Diamonds

Cash will lose value with inflation

And the others will not lose value I guess...lol?

Come back to reality please

 

[OTR365]

Crypto
Property
Gold
Diamonds

Cash will lose value with inflation

Most cryptos, i.e. altcoins can be flushed down toilet as a store of value. Bitcoin may still have a great future (let's at least wait until autumn 2020 before declaring it dead), but bitcoin's present sucks.

Property in most parts of the World is not a good store of value. Even in the West, properties are burdened by taxes, shoddy construction, repair costs, risk of the neighborhood turning into a s-hole etc. etc.

Diamonds are illiquid and require special expertise to price reliably, so they mostly lose value right after you walk out of store. Tens of percentages, I assume. Diamonds are not that rare and they have good substitutes, such as moissanite and zirconia. An average person can't tell these apart.

Gold is a way to store value. Sometimes good, sometimes not good, mostly just mediocre. Gold has the best stock-to-flow value right now (about 62), but it will be surpassed by bitcoin in the next decade (if bitcoin survives that far).

I guess competition / market forces guarantee there is no store of value people could rely on at all times. All items on that list - even cash - work some of the time, but not all the time.

 

[Martin Everson]

@OTR365 Thanks for breaking it down.

Basically the capitalist system relies on never ending uncertainty. The flushing out and destruction and reconstruction of all known safe havens. People can spend their lifetime trying to work out the best way to store value.

In the end you may well find that people in poor developing countries have the solution...lol. Which is to have many kids and invest in those kids education, entrepreneurship and health as best you can. That investment in human capital will be worth its weight in gold later on in your life. They maybe the next Steve Jobs .

P.S I know.....it's not what OP wants to hear .

 

[Martin Everson]

You can find some "ethical" ETFs with shares of S&P 500 companies as well

Problem is everything is completely overvalued due to historically low interest rates and cheap money. Trump is driving the S&P 500. Every-time he opens his mouth the markets move...lol. I imagine he would make a good friend to a short trader. Just get him to open his mouth on a company while you short that company in the background .

The US markets are not currently orderly either. US is even reported to be considering de-listing Chinese companies from US because of trade war with China. Just avoid it all...lol.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-firms-from-u-s-markets-source-idUSKBN1WC1VP