What country would you choose to relocate to avoid taxes?

[dziter]

They don't have to check it. You are the one that will have to provide evidence a) in order to obtain the tax residences privileges (BTW the 60 days is a special prevision and you need multiple conditions)

So you need to provide evidence every year?
I mean if the setup is working the first year, they are not checking after may be?

Yes multiple (not difficult conditions) for Cyprus 60 days rule :
- Staying in Cyprus for 60 days
- Be employed by a Cyprus company (yours for example)
- Have a permanent residence in Cyprus (rent a flat full year)
- Earn enough to live in Cyprus
- And you did not stay anywhere else for more than 183 days in the same year : ok but how they are checking?

Speaking about 60 days is not bad of course but if this is the same scheme for other countries...

and from the other country point of you b) if they audit you from the country (the one where you are staying most of the time) you need evidence in order to prove not to be a tax resident of the latter.

Of course but I don't see why the other country could audit you?
I mean, they will normally don't even know you are there (emis, nothing at your name, from EU so Schengen ..).

 

[Txaxandlxaxwxyxexr]

The audit is more probable from the country where now you pay taxes and where now you have your tax residence.

And you have to give them evidence you actually move to Cyprus

 

[dziter]

It's not exactly what I was asking but I guess it's fine.

This is not a problem because I will satisfy conditions to have tax residence certificate
I was more wondering how Cyprus or Hungary or another country are checking if you stay 60 days or 6 months in their country.

Because when it's in Europe and you are from Europe, with Schengen area you can almost do what you want.
I mean, I don't mind to incorporate somewhere in Europe, satisfy the conditions to have the tax residency approved and certificate first year, and after that living elsewhere in Europe with a local lease agreement (not at my name) or Airbnb (if they don't share info..) etc with EMI.
Host country: doesn't know you are here
Tax residency country: doesn't know you are not physically there too if they don't checked...

@JustAnotherNomad: I am putting you back in this conversation to have your advice on my previous messages (you know well my thoughts now ). Thanks.

 

[CaptK]

Your problem is if they catch you, you have to prove your innocent. Therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Your debit card will tell them where you are and how long for. When you provide your bank statements they will see where your spending money. Then you will have 2 authorities picking through your life.

Lets remember the EU is basically one country with different states. So no matter how cautious you are you will slip up. Its better to get a solution out of Europe as you also need to factor in DTA.

Last question is it worth the hassel and stress to save a few thousand, baring in mind it will cost a couple thousand.

 

[JohnLocke]

I was more wondering how Cyprus or Hungary or another country are checking if you stay 60 days or 6 months in their country.

Should it come to that the local tax office believe you are evading tax and you tell them you have been in the country for X days and for that reason you have or don't have to pay tax there, then you will have to show them prove that you have been their, that could be receipts from gas stations, restaurants etc. but most often you need more then this like a rent agreement for your department or similar.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

@dziter I don’t know. Would be interesting to hear some feedback from @Martin Everson or @xzars or @fshore .

I can’t imagine Cyprus or Hungary requiring you to stay a certain number of days, unless you request a tax residency certificate (which doesn’t mean much anyway). But you should always have proper ties, rent an apartment erc

The real risk would of course be the third country (where you’re actually staying) auditing you. The risk is probably low if you don’t somehow put yourself on the radar.
The biggest risk would probably be something like card transactions or flights proving your presence. I don’t think there are any automated checks for that right now (I could be wrong), but that could change in the future. The data is there, who knows what they’ll do with it in 10 or 20 years, especially if you’re still there.

In any case you should study the tie-breaker rules in the DTA closely.

 

[dziter]

Thank you all for answers.

I can’t imagine Cyprus or Hungary requiring you to stay a certain number of days, unless you request a tax residency certificate (which doesn’t mean much anyway). But you should always have proper ties, rent an apartment erc

Even to have the tax certificate, you can be in the rules the first year and after...
For Cyprus rules, you have to rent or buy a place full-year.
I was just interesting about their checkings.
For their easy non-dom program (60 days rules), they don’t want the individual spending 6 months + in another country.
So I guess it’s just a condition to say be careful you will probably tax resident somewhere else rather than it’s forbidden because they don’t check that, I guess?
And yes, it’s more the third country where it is good to be careful.

I am just interesting to understand how everything works.
I mean, I am in Cyprus now. I don’t know if I see myself really living here full-year. So good for me, the easy non-dom exists but it’s good for travelers only I guess. You can’t spend rest of your time in another country (6 months rules). You need at least 3 countries where you live in this setup.

Last question is it worth the hassel and stress to save a few thousand, baring in mind it will cost a couple thousand.

Clearly no I will say because I am just a freelancer. But I will be glad we speak about few thousands. In my case it’s more 20 000 in taxes (It’s big for me).

 

[CaptK]

Thank you all for answers.



Even to have the tax certificate, you can be in the rules the first year and after...
For Cyprus rules, you have to rent or buy a place full-year.
I was just interesting about their checkings.
For their easy non-dom program (60 days rules), they don’t want the individual spending 6 months + in another country.
So I guess it’s just a condition to say be careful you will probably tax resident somewhere else rather than it’s forbidden because they don’t check that, I guess?
And yes, it’s more the third country where it is good to be careful.

I am just interesting to understand how everything works.
I mean, I am in Cyprus now. I don’t know if I see myself really living here full-year. So good for me, the easy non-dom exists but it’s good for travelers only I guess. You can’t spend rest of your time in another country (6 months rules). You need at least 3 countries where you live in this setup.



Clearly no I will say because I am just a freelancer. But I will be glad we speak about few thousands. In my case it’s more 20 000 in taxes (It’s big for me).

PM me to discuss we can talk through options

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Why would Cyprus complain that you want to pay your taxes there or check anything?
They couldn’t care less. They’ll be happy that you want to pay your taxes there.
They will only start caring once you want to avoid paying taxes in another country. In that case they will care more about their relationship with the other country than about the tiny amount of taxes you would pay in Cyprus. So they will check that you’ve actually fulfilled their rules before they issue a certificate. Also unless you can prove strong ties to Cyprus, I can’t imagine they would fight the other country’s authorities to keep you as a tax resident in a dispute.

 

[Tax Cow]

@dziter

Some guidelines given by @JustAnotherNomad are a good starting point. In particular I agree that low tax destinations like Malta and Cyprus will deem you a resident once you fulfill the conditions, but they won't go any meaningful distance to protect you if a bigger and stronger cattle master still wants to tax your income.

Break all ties with the home country. Get a new residency in a non-EU country and pay tax there for 1 year. Break all ties with that new country. Then return to Europe and travel with your birth right passport but don't return to your home country too often or for too long. Taking a job or applying for ID documents in any destination country could put you on the radar of a local cattle master. So don't do that. Make sure that you're ready to cover your medical bills should something happen. Overall, your life choices will be quite limited. Always rent - home and cars. Buying gets more attention to you. And on the topic of attention, this doesn't work well with high profile people.

 

[dziter]

Thank you all for your answers. So I am working actively on it.

Always rent - home and cars. Buying gets more attention to you.

At beginning, yes I agree. But after, let's be honest: when you are making money or try to make more money, most of people want to find a way to invest in real estate.

 

[Jade33]

@dziter

Some guidelines given by @JustAnotherNomad are a good starting point. In particular I agree that low tax destinations like Malta and Cyprus will deem you a resident once you fulfill the conditions, but they won't go any meaningful distance to protect you if a bigger and stronger cattle master still wants to tax your income.

Break all ties with the home country. Get a new residency in a non-EU country and pay tax there for 1 year. Break all ties with that new country. Then return to Europe and travel with your birth right passport but don't return to your home country too often or for too long. Taking a job or applying for ID documents in any destination country could put you on the radar of a local cattle master. So don't do that. Make sure that you're ready to cover your medical bills should something happen. Overall, your life choices will be quite limited. Always rent - home and cars. Buying gets more attention to you. And on the topic of attention, this doesn't work well with high profile people.

Sounds more like being on the run

 

[AlbertBr]

St Kitts and Nevis.

No taxes and beautiful caribbean beaches. What more I can ask?

 

[Tax Cow]

Sounds more like being on the run

That's where you end up if you're allergic to taxes but refuse to leave the EU!

 

[Praetorian]

@dziter

Some guidelines given by @JustAnotherNomad are a good starting point. In particular I agree that low tax destinations like Malta and Cyprus will deem you a resident once you fulfill the conditions, but they won't go any meaningful distance to protect you if a bigger and stronger cattle master still wants to tax your income.

Break all ties with the home country. Get a new residency in a non-EU country and pay tax there for 1 year. Break all ties with that new country. Then return to Europe and travel with your birth right passport but don't return to your home country too often or for too long. Taking a job or applying for ID documents in any destination country could put you on the radar of a local cattle master. So don't do that. Make sure that you're ready to cover your medical bills should something happen. Overall, your life choices will be quite limited. Always rent - home and cars. Buying gets more attention to you. And on the topic of attention, this doesn't work well with high profile people.

Always plan ahead when you run into large sums of money and you want to minimize taxes. You can do so legally without resorting to flat out evasion. I would be very careful dodging tax from countries like France because not only they will seize the undeclared amounts but they will slap you with a fine of the same amount. You'll essentially be left with nothing, assuming they don't try to throw your a*s in jail to top it off.

However i totally agree, those banana republic islands will never protect you against a foreign tax authority, unless you're a russian oligarch or something like that.

 

[daxbr]

Any third world non-island country, where people look like me, low tax compliance and well entrenched permanent class.

 

[PeterA50]

anyone got experience with relocating from one EU country to Slovakia?

 

[dziter]

You can do so legally without resorting to flat out evasion. I would be very careful dodging tax from countries like France because not only they will seize the undeclared amounts but they will slap you with a fine of the same amount.

It's what I am looking for. Can you tell more?
I don't see what I am doing illegally. If I untie myself completely with France, moving my assets and my a*s so where is the problem?
I don't have anything physical and my business is remote so..

Any third world non-island country, where people look like me, low tax compliance and well entrenched permanent class.

Tell me more, countries examples please.

 

[Jade33]

@dziter I don’t know. Would be interesting to hear some feedback from @Martin Everson or @xzars or @fshore .

I can’t imagine Cyprus or Hungary requiring you to stay a certain number of days, unless you request a tax residency certificate (which doesn’t mean much anyway). But you should always have proper ties, rent an apartment erc

The real risk would of course be the third country (where you’re actually staying) auditing you. The risk is probably low if you don’t somehow put yourself on the radar.
The biggest risk would probably be something like card transactions or flights proving your presence. I don’t think there are any automated checks for that right now (I could be wrong), but that could change in the future. The data is there, who knows what they’ll do with it in 10 or 20 years, especially if you’re still there.

In any case you should study the tie-breaker rules in the DTA closely.

Fingerprint scan for entry/exit EU is rolling out now!

Based on the principle that the majority of visitors are "bona fide", the EES will radically change the Schengen Borders Code with the double objective of:

• making borders smart by automating checks and controls on legitimate visitors while strengthening methods for combating irregular migration
• creating a central register of cross-border movements.

 

[Dandyline]

Why complicate things.

Just cut ties with your home country and move to Dubai. Live there in a rented luxury apartment and enjoy good weather October-April. Spend May-Sep in Europe. Pay 0 tax and save money for a couple of years.

Who wants to live in Europe during winter anyway?

I cant think of a better setup where you get the best of two worlds.

Then if you want to move back to Europe, deposit 500k EUR and get a residency in Monaco and keep enjoying your 0 tax life.