Thailand new change - world wide income at Thai tax levels to be taxed

[mmueller]

I'm going to extend my Elite/Privilege visa another 15 years this autumn, and if this "global income tax" becomes a reality I will probably open a holding corp (somewhere) for my Malta based trading company, that will then receive most of what I take out from it as income today, in the form of dividends instead.

The dividends received by the holding corp would then be invested in the stock market by the holding company itself. Hopefully this works and the holding company can keep receiving the 6/7 CIT refunds as I have been receiving them personally without any problems whatsoever up to now.

I don't think half a million baht for the extension is peanuts, but it is also not a exactly a life changing amount for me either. I kinda like it in Thailand and I will try to stay a couple of more years regardless of how the tax situation develops.

 

[wellington]

I'm going to extend my Elite/Privilege visa another 15 years this autumn, and if this "global income tax" becomes a reality I will probably open a holding corp (somewhere) for my Malta based trading company, that will then receive most of what I take out from it as income today, in the form of dividends instead.

The dividends received by the holding corp would then be invested in the stock market by the holding company itself. Hopefully this works and the holding company can keep receiving the 6/7 CIT refunds as I have been receiving them personally without any problems whatsoever up to now.

I don't think half a million baht for the extension is peanuts, but it is also not a exactly a life changing amount for me either. I kinda like it in Thailand and I will try to stay a couple of more years regardless of how the tax situation develops.

Its peanuts in-light of the hoops one has to jump through or the options elsewhere comparatively speaking IMHO.

I'm going to extend my Elite/Privilege visa another 15 years this autumn, and if this "global income tax" becomes a reality I will probably open a holding corp (somewhere) for my Malta based trading company, that will then receive most of what I take out from it as income today, in the form of dividends instead.

The dividends received by the holding corp would then be invested in the stock market by the holding company itself. Hopefully this works and the holding company can keep receiving the 6/7 CIT refunds as I have been receiving them personally without any problems whatsoever up to now.

I don't think half a million baht for the extension is peanuts, but it is also not a exactly a life changing amount for me either. I kinda like it in Thailand and I will try to stay a couple of more years regardless of how the tax situation develops.

One other thing, half a million for an extension for 15 yrs?

 

[JackAlabama]

Value of Elite is simply the ability to reside at home for 5,10,15,20 etc years without having to ever leave the country, and without having to deal with IO, except once a year where they run around printing paperwork to affix a new stamp.

It's also 'peanuts' when all things considered, even on the new pricing structure.

As for everything else including tax, there's many ways to structure to offset, but these methods are not available to someone that eats as they earn.

true that. Also being able to be absent for long periods without having to check in periodically is great.

 

[churumbelo]

Its peanuts in-light of the hoops one has to jump through or the options elsewhere comparatively speaking IMHO.


One other thing, half a million for an extension for 15 yrs?

Because he has the old 5-year Elite visa that was 500k. At the time the 20-year visa cost was 1 million. So he has to pay the difference now to get the upgrade to 20 years. Those who paid 600k instead, would have to pay 400k to get 15 years more.

 

[Markus92]

you must be new to the region if you feel sorry for these people

Not new. I spend approx 6 months per year in Thailand with visa runs. Many times I visited immigration office to extend visa. I have never had too much troubles to extend. Few hours lost. If they make 5 years visa 180 days each entry I will take it in first day because I am scared that they will change rules. In Thailand they very often change rules.

 

[churumbelo]

Not new. I spend approx 6 months per year in Thailand with visa runs. Many times I visited immigration office to extend visa. I have never had too much troubles to extend. Few hours lost. If they make 5 years visa 180 days each entry I will take it in first day because I am scared that they will change rules. In Thailand they very often change rules.

I don't think it'll be a 5-year visa per se, because then the Elite Visa wouldn't make any sense whatsoever (event less than now).
On one hand you have the new 5-year Elite visa whose cost is 900k, and you aren't allowed to work. Cost = 180k/year
On the other hand you would have this new digital nomad visa. You would be able to stay in the country for 180 days + another 180 days with an extension. You would only have to leave once after one year, a border run and come back to Thailand again, and you can stay another year. Plus you would be allowed to work. Cost = only 20k/ year

Who would pay for the Elite Visa then, much more expensive. And you would have to pay 900k at once for the Elite visa, instead of 10k for each 180-days visit with this new visa.

I don't see the point. But hey, it's Thailand. Everything is possible.

 

[pomo]

I don't think it'll be a 5-year visa per se, because then the Elite Visa wouldn't make any sense whatsoever (event less than now).
On one hand you have the new 5-year Elite visa whose cost is 900k, and you aren't allowed to work. Cost = 180k/year
On the other hand you would have this new digital nomad visa. You would be able to stay in the country for 180 days + another 180 days with an extension. You would only have to leave once after one year, a border run and come back to Thailand again, and you can stay another year. Plus you would be allowed to work. Cost = only 20k/ year

Who would pay for the Elite Visa then, much more expensive. And you would have to pay 900k at once for the Elite visa, instead of 10k for each 180-days visit with this new visa.

I don't see the point. But hey, it's Thailand. Everything is possible.

I thought that the new nomad visa was a one-off, i.e. you can get the 180+180 days once during the five year period and that they wouldn't issue a new one just because you used up the days. TiT so everything is possible as you say, wouldn't surprise me if they screw over elite buyers (on top of the new global income tax).

 

[Markus92]

I thought that the new nomad visa was a one-off, i.e. you can get the 180+180 days once during the five year period and that they wouldn't issue a new one just because you used up the days. TiT so everything is possible as you say, wouldn't surprise me if they screw over elite buyers (on top of the new global income tax).

They should make this 5 years visa and add privallage to Elite Visa: foreign income tax exemption. People who don't want pay taxes and don't fulfill requirements to obtain LTR Visa buy Elite Card. Normal people who want to stay in Thailand get digital nomad visa and pay taxes or ..... hide income.

 

[churumbelo]

I thought that the new nomad visa was a one-off, i.e. you can get the 180+180 days once during the five year period and that they wouldn't issue a new one just because you used up the days. TiT so everything is possible as you say, wouldn't surprise me if they screw over elite buyers (on top of the new global income tax).

That's what I mean. That the media and people commenting are talking about it as a 5-year visa. But it will be probably as you say.

They should make this 5 years visa and add privallage to Elite Visa: foreign income tax exemption. People who don't want pay taxes and don't fulfill requirements to obtain LTR Visa buy Elite Card. Normal people who want to stay in Thailand get digital nomad visa and pay taxes or ..... hide income.

I agree. But that implies they know what they are doing, they see the big picture, and they have long-term thinking. If you know Thailand and how things work here, then you know that this is not the case.

 

[JackAlabama]

Not new. I spend approx 6 months per year in Thailand with visa runs. Many times I visited immigration office to extend visa. I have never had too much troubles to extend. Few hours lost. If they make 5 years visa 180 days each entry I will take it in first day because I am scared that they will change rules. In Thailand they very often change rules.

well with the elite visa you dont have any of these issues... most likely will never see mig office from the inside for 2 decades.

 

[wellington]

They should make this 5 years visa and add privallage to Elite Visa: foreign income tax exemption. People who don't want pay taxes and don't fulfill requirements to obtain LTR Visa buy Elite Card. Normal people who want to stay in Thailand get digital nomad visa and pay taxes or ..... hide income.

To be fair it was marketed as tax free when i did it, but that was by third party agencies dictating the law / view at the time.
Based on Thai tax levels, that would not really work, i.e i have three kids, milk alone is 10-12,000 THB a month, you add in insurances, schooling, (1.5yr old + 1 due to be born shortly) nannies etc, we'd be paying something like 800,000-2m THB in taxes based on remittances IF it was income in some years, giving birth in Thailand when all factored in and if something goes wrong (went wrong for both kids first time - 750,000 THB paid on the spot otherwise the kid(s) die..

Wife alone pays 400,000 THB on taxes annually with all the deductibles and rather than f*****g around if i give her any money she declares and pays taxes even with the 20m tax free exemption (gift) due to not wanting to create waves.

The Elite if tax free based on the new structure at current prices is massively under - valued cost charge wise.

Will lay out the average costs of a middle-upper income person living/residing in Thailand.

Property
Insurance 120,000 THB
Energy 50,000 THB
Water/Sewage 20,000 THB
Pool Maintenance 80,000 THB
Food/Groceries 300,000 THB

Self/Adults
Insurance 250,000 THB (couple)

Children (0-4 age each)
Education 60,000-150,000 THB
Insurance 60,000 THB
Nannies 300,000 THB
Medical Vaccines 35,000 THB
Food 75,000 THB

Activities
Dining Out 140,000 THB
Golf/Other 150,000 THB
Marine/Boat 500,000 THB

Vehicles
Insurance 60,000 THB
Maintenance 30,000 THB

= Rough cost of 2,320,000 THB (remitted) = 419,000 THB so annual cost in Thailand will increase 500,000 THB.

Now in my case i am fortunate that i only ever get dividends every 5-10 yrs and in that year i can travel, otherwise i live on savings.

But for a hell of a lot of people, both working onshore paid tax onshore but consultancy offshore (all of higher-end tourism sector) or those that reside in Thailand but own companies offshore that pay them salary/dividends annually, they are about to be hit with a tidal wave of tax requirements.

To put into perspective, a CFO would earn 150,000 a month onshore, taxes paid by the company they'd then have a HK Consultancy that is paid by a HK parent company of the domestic Thai company -> tax free 250,000 a month -> these people now will be charged tax on 400,000 at Thai rates of 35%.

___ f*****g cat costs 20,000 a year in food and care, gonna fry him up in cat chow main.

*Correction 400,000 CFO now 25% tax not 35% with deductions.

 

[JackAlabama]

To be fair it was marketed as tax free when i did it, but that was by third party agencies dictating the law / view at the time.
Based on Thai tax levels, that would not really work, i.e i have three kids, milk alone is 10-12,000 THB a month, you add in insurances, schooling, (1.5yr old + 1 due to be born shortly) nannies etc, we'd be paying something like 800,000-2m THB in taxes based on remittances IF it was income in some years, giving birth in Thailand when all factored in and if something goes wrong (went wrong for both kids first time - 750,000 THB paid on the spot otherwise the kid(s) die..

Wife alone pays 400,000 THB on taxes annually with all the deductibles and rather than f*****g around if i give her any money she declares and pays taxes even with the 20m tax free exemption (gift) due to not wanting to create waves.

The Elite if tax free based on the new structure at current prices is massively under - valued cost charge wise.

Will lay out the average costs of a middle-upper income person living/residing in Thailand.

Property
Insurance 120,000 THB
Energy 50,000 THB
Water/Sewage 20,000 THB
Pool Maintenance 80,000 THB
Food/Groceries 300,000 THB

Self/Adults
Insurance 250,000 THB (couple)

Children (0-4 age each)
Education 60,000-150,000 THB
Insurance 60,000 THB
Nannies 300,000 THB
Medical Vaccines 35,000 THB
Food 75,000 THB

Activities
Dining Out 140,000 THB
Golf/Other 150,000 THB
Marine/Boat 500,000 THB

Vehicles
Insurance 60,000 THB
Maintenance 30,000 THB

= Rough cost of 2,320,000 THB (remitted) = 419,000 THB so annual cost in Thailand will increase 500,000 THB.

Now in my case i am fortunate that i only ever get dividends every 5-10 yrs and in that year i can travel, otherwise i live on savings.

But for a hell of a lot of people, both working onshore paid tax onshore but consultancy offshore (all of higher-end tourism sector) or those that reside in Thailand but own companies offshore that pay them salary/dividends annually, they are about to be hit with a tidal wave of tax requirements.

To put into perspective, a CFO would earn 150,000 a month onshore, taxes paid by the company they'd then have a HK Consultancy that is paid by a HK parent company of the domestic Thai company -> tax free 250,000 a month -> these people now will be charged tax on 400,000 at Thai rates of 35%.

___ f*****g cat costs 20,000 a year in food and care, gonna fry him up in cat chow main.

holy cow thats pretty rough. What went wrong with the birth? Did your wife go for c-section upfront or was a natural birth process suddenly derailing?

 

[wellington]

holy cow thats pretty rough. What went wrong with the birth? Did your wife go for c-section upfront or was a natural birth process suddenly derailing?

Babies had to go into those specialist rooms/tanks/air etc (twins) But basically, the insurances don't cover things for the first year also so the first year you get hit with a s**t load of costs out of pocket if they have issues.

Also even worse insurances only cover certain hospitals, wife was down south visiting family and the kids caught covid, and had to remain in intensive care there and we wouldn't move them to Bangkok Hospital 6 hrs away etc.


Nah always C-Section...

If memory serves, breathing issues, chest infection, jaunders, etc was a litany of issues was in intensive care from the moment born for 2 weeks.

But as they were delivered late in the evening and had to enter intensive care they came up and said do you have this amount of money immediately and fortunately i had my CC so bunged on that, but basically they will do the bare min if you don't have the funds, and in public hospitals well kids die all the time when born i.e theres been occasions where moths/babies die due to being left too long, and then infections etc.

 

[Mercury]

Wife alone pays 400,000 THB on taxes annually with all the deductibles and rather than f*****g around if i give her any money she declares and pays taxes even with the 20m tax free exemption (gift) due to not wanting to create waves.

Gifting your wife to support your family/children is legal and legitimate. I don't get why you want to pay tax on your remittance, there is nothing TRD can do.
Or do you mean your wife pays THB400K tax on her own earned income?

 

[wellington]

well with the elite visa you dont have any of these issues... most likely will never see mig office from the inside for 2 decades.

Elite visa has a couple of drawbacks
1) you have to get a new stamp affixed annually but they do all the running around paperwork and also vet you with Interpol annually whilst you await.

2) you have to do a 90 day report I tried digitally once and it didn’t work so go every 90 days to a small office to do it.

Now as I’ve commented a few times I do know a foreigner English who can barely walk but every year his passport goes over the border and he gets a new stamp, there are thousands like that through agents and immigration prefer it that way because they get kick backs without a camera overhead.

So I’m not entirely sure if the visa has value but being legal it probably does.

Oh one other cost not considered is that the overseas company for example has staffing / management - if we just strip out to the director - that’s an additional

100,000$ a year
5% profit of the company

So in theory that is a tax if done legitimately - could be argued.

Gifting your wife to support your family/children is legal and legitimate. I don't get why you want to pay tax on your remittance, there is nothing TRD can do.
Or do you mean your wife pays THB400K tax on her own earned income?

Nah we incorporate within her income.

 

[JackAlabama]

Babies had to go into those specialist rooms/tanks/air etc (twins) But basically, the insurances don't cover things for the first year also so the first year you get hit with a s**t load of costs out of pocket if they have issues.

Also even worse insurances only cover certain hospitals, wife was down south visiting family and the kids caught covid, and had to remain in intensive care there and we wouldn't move them to Bangkok Hospital 6 hrs away etc.


Nah always C-Section...

If memory serves, breathing issues, chest infection, jaunders, etc was a litany of issues was in intensive care from the moment born for 2 weeks.

But as they were delivered late in the evening and had to enter intensive care they came up and said do you have this amount of money immediately and fortunately i had my CC so bunged on that, but basically they will do the bare min if you don't have the funds, and in public hospitals well kids die all the time when born i.e theres been occasions where moths/babies die due to being left too long, and then infections etc.

boah crazy stuff. Rough episode. Sorry to hear that but good it turned out well.
Good reminder to have always some extra spare cash on a few cards.

 

[churumbelo]

@wellington they changed the 90-day reporting system recently, a few months ago. For me it's working now. I did it a couple of weeks ago. In one to two business days they approved it.

 

[JackAlabama]

@wellington they changed the 90-day reporting system recently, a few months ago. For me it's working now. I did it a couple of weeks ago. In one to two business days they approved it.

Im no pro of this, but doesn't that depend on how your landlord has entered the exact address i guess? I have already seen several versions of mine for example, which is kinda hilarious.

The problem is if they for whatever reason deny the thingy most likely the time slot for TPC to do will most likely have already expired, which would make a trip to Immigration necessary (resulting in a huge time loss at least in bkk).

 

[churumbelo]

Im no pro of this, but doesn't that depend on how your landlord has entered the exact address i guess? I have already seen several versions of mine for example, which is kinda hilarious.

The problem is if they for whatever reason deny the thingy most likely the time slot for TPC to do will most likely have already expired, which would make a trip to Immigration necessary (resulting in a huge time loss at least in bkk).

For what I know you need a valid TM30 and have done at least one 90-day reporting in person. Then you will be able to do it online yourself. For me it is working now as I said. Of course, if for some reason your landlord did not submit the TM30, which he is obliged to do, you would not be able to do the 90-day reporting online or in person.

Also, TPC has now a new service. They send someone to pick your passport up to your house, they do the 90-day reporting on your behalf, and then they bring it back to your house. Instead of going yourself to the TPC office or partner. This is location limited. Bangkok and I do not know if other places too.

 

[wellington]

Im no pro of this, but doesn't that depend on how your landlord has entered the exact address i guess? I have already seen several versions of mine for example, which is kinda hilarious.

The problem is if they for whatever reason deny the thingy most likely the time slot for TPC to do will most likely have already expired, which would make a trip to Immigration necessary (resulting in a huge time loss at least in bkk)

Where i am you have a local district one (with cafes, parking etc) takes two minutes, in and out at 10 am in the morning.

But if you use the digital one and it rejects you have to go to the city (1hr there rush hour) then stand in line in the sun / rain and then drive back (30 minutes).

I tried once - easier to just go to the district one every 3 months now lol

For what I know you need a valid TM30 and have done at least one 90-day reporting in person. Then you will be able to do it online yourself. For me it is working now as I said. Of course, if for some reason your landlord did not submit the TM30, which he is obliged to do, you would not be able to do the 90-day reporting online or in person.

Also, TPC has now a new service. They send someone to pick your passport up to your house, they do the 90-day reporting on your behalf, and then they bring it back to your house. Instead of going yourself to the TPC office or partner. This is location limited. Bangkok and I do not know if other places too.

True on the latter part (Elite) but only in Bangkok.