Thailand new change - world wide income at Thai tax levels to be taxed

[unth72]

I can understand it, but honestly, Cambodia (PP) is boring AF compared to TH/Bangkok. The service is 10 levels lower, food is just okay, and there’s honestly nothing to do. Sure, no CRS, it’s corrupt as hell, and people are nice (and cheap). But what else is there, really, for living?

What would you do differently in Bangkok vs PP / Siem Reap?

Is this a generational thing I wonder? When I was in my 20s I would go to the nightlife multiple times a week and far later at the weekends but I'm in my 50's now and I grew out of that a while back.

The only reason I moved to Asia was to avoid paying any tax. I don't care for the culture, the people or anything else. I live a 100% western lifestyle, nothing changed for me when making the move which was a long time ago.

 

[Mercury]

I envy you. I am thinking of doing same now. Trying to adjust tax free life

There is still nothing to scare about taxes in Thailand, tax rules are not enforced. High corruption everywhere denies any efficient tax enforcement. And if it unlikely happens new tax loopholes will be created on the fly for the wealthies. Same applies all over Southeast Asia except Singapore.

 

[wellington]

Cambodia will join CRS anyway

Unlikely, same applies to Laos, with CRS it weakens their current system, with that in mind, it potentially risks their authoritarian grip.

 

[wellington]

There is still nothing to scare about taxes in Thailand, tax rules are not enforced. High corruption everywhere denies any efficient tax enforcement. And if it unlikely happens new tax loopholes will be created on the fly for the wealthies. Same applies all over Southeast Asia except Singapore.

Thai taxes are simple, you only pay tax on what you remit -i.e if you still have a consultancy in HK, and that pays funds to your account(s) offshore, you don't pay tax unless you import the funds, much like if you have a company overseas in products/services.

So then it comes down to showing it was savings or principle pre-2024.

This year i filed, was with Revenue Department going through -> there was a specific account that i didn't want to expose my wealth/accounts (offshore) for security reasons (dangerous having Thai's being aware what wealth you have - at immigration a friend was sitting there whilst they were passing around his bank book saying 'rich man', 'rich man') etc.

So for that i declared remitted ROI (where i could have showed it wasn't but ran the risk of my accounts (bulk) being exposed), at first they said 226,000 THB in Taxes for that % from that source, but after all the deductions roughly 150,000 THB.

A friend (neighbor) after all his deductions 3.6k THB...

I.e unless you are earning & importing 3-10m+ THB annually you really don't need to worry, because worst case if you can't argue prior savings or principle, your taxes will be very low.... i.e insurance deductions, home maintenance/build deductions, donation deductions, education (kids) deductions, etc.

 

[wellington]

This year i filed, was with Revenue Department going through -> there was a specific account that i didn't want to expose my wealth/accounts (offshore) for security reasons (dangerous having Thai's being aware what wealth you have - at immigration a friend was sitting there whilst they were passing around his bank book saying 'rich man', 'rich man') etc.

So for that i declared remitted ROI (where i could have showed it wasn't but ran the risk of my accounts (bulk) being exposed), at first they said 226,000 THB in Taxes for that % from that source, but after all the deductions roughly 150,000 THB.

Something i've learned -> move funds in bulk to a specific account for annual remittance.. as its quite common for people to end with a bag over their head...

 

[wellington]

There is still nothing to scare about taxes in Thailand, tax rules are not enforced. High corruption everywhere denies any efficient tax enforcement. And if it unlikely happens new tax loopholes will be created on the fly for the wealthies. Same applies all over Southeast Asia except Singapore.

I disagree with this.

1) People not declaring taxes will be flagged and their accounts observed
2) Accounts with more than 300 transactions annually are flagged (all accounts aggregated) for AML investigations.
3) Tax evasion in Thailand for Thai's usually can be dealt with via a fine -> with a Foreigner it becomes complicated, i.e you have visa(s) but you also need a exemption when leaving the country to confirm your taxes are all in order.

 

[wellington]

The only reason I moved to Asia was to avoid paying any tax. I don't care for the culture, the people or anything else. I live a 100% western lifestyle, nothing changed for me when making the move which was a long time ago.

Depends on how much your lifestyle costs you.

You will be reducing your taxes, yes, but not wiping them out (in Thailand) unless its pre-2024 savings/principle.

Living in Laos/Cambodia is probably horrific compared to Thailand (I am unsure) but you can travel across Asia - i.e Month in Bali, Month in HK, Month in KL/Singapore, and then 3.1 months somewhere else and 5.9 months in Thailand.

 

[Mercury]

Thai taxes are simple, you only pay tax on what you remit -i.e if you still have a consultancy in HK, and that pays funds to your account(s) offshore, you don't pay tax unless you import the funds, much like if you have a company overseas in products/services.

So then it comes down to showing it was savings or principle pre-2024.

This year i filed, was with Revenue Department going through -> there was a specific account that i didn't want to expose my wealth/accounts (offshore) for security reasons (dangerous having Thai's being aware what wealth you have - at immigration a friend was sitting there whilst they were passing around his bank book saying 'rich man', 'rich man') etc.

So for that i declared remitted ROI (where i could have showed it wasn't but ran the risk of my accounts (bulk) being exposed), at first they said 226,000 THB in Taxes for that % from that source, but after all the deductions roughly 150,000 THB.

A friend (neighbor) after all his deductions 3.6k THB...

I.e unless you are earning & importing 3-10m+ THB annually you really don't need to worry, because worst case if you can't argue prior savings or principle, your taxes will be very low.... i.e insurance deductions, home maintenance/build deductions, donation deductions, education (kids) deductions, etc.

Indeed.

But in reality nobody will knock at your door to audit you. Even less if you are unknown from TRD.
And IF it happens it's always negotiable and will be a one-time event as people will then flee or tax-free structure themselves accordingly.

How long do you think real-estate market can stand in Thailand if millions $ foreign remittances have to be taxed because, let's be frank, all that money can't be structured properly to be tax exempted or fit in a tax loophole?

 

[wellington]

will then flee

You can't flee, you have to have a document stating you are clear of taxes, they flag you at immigration...

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

1. What is a Tax Clearance Certificate?​

Tax Clearance Certificate is a certificate issued by the Director-General of the Revenue Department or the Provincial Governor or the delegated authority to a foreigner who is departing Thailand to indicate that he has already paid taxes or that he has provided a guarantor or securities as guarantee for tax liabilities and tax payable.

2. Who is required to acquire a Tax Clearance Certificate?​

Section 4 quarter of the Revenue Code stipulates that a foreigner departing shall apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate in the form prescribed by the Director-General within 15 days before leaving the country, whether or not there is any tax payable. A foreigner departing Thailand is required to file an application for Tax Clearance Certificate (Form P.1) and supporting documents if:

He is liable to payment of tax or tax arrears before departing Thailand
He has duty to file a tax return and pay tax on behalf of a company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws and has been carrying on business in Thailand
He has taxable income, whether or not in Thailand, from being a public performer in Thailand.

The word "public performer" means a drama, movie film, radio and television performer, singer, musician, professional sportsperson or performer for any kind of entertainment.

3. Who is not required to acquire a Tax Clearance Certificate?​

Section 4 quarter of the Revenue Code stipulates that a foreigner transiting Thailand, or entering or residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating not more than 90 days in a tax year without earning assessable income or a foreigner as prescribed by the Director-General with the Ministers approval shall not be required to apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate.

In addition the Revenue Department issued the Notification of the Director-General of the Revenue Department on 7 May 1991 stipulating that foreigners departing Thailand do not have to apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate except for the above three cases in 2.

4. Types of Tax Clearance Certificate​

There are 2 types of Tax Clearance Certificate: P.3 and P. 3.1

4.1 P.3 Tax Clearance Certificate

issued to a foreigner who is temporarily departing Thailand. It is valid for a single leave and must be used within 15 days from the issuance date. If he does not depart Thailand within the specified period, the Tax Clearance Certificate becomes invalid unless it is renewed before the expiry date.

4.2 P.3.1 Tax Clearance Certificate

issued to a foreigner who enters and leaves Thailand on a regular basis due to his business or profession. It is valid for multiple leave within the period specified in the Tax Clearance Certificate but not exceeding 180 days from the issuance date. Renewal of Form P. 3.1 is not allowed.

5. How to apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate​

A foreigner required to have a Tax Clearance Certificate shall file an application for Tax Clearance Certificate (Form P.1) along with the following documents:



Tax Clearance Certificate Form P. 3

1. Passport
2. Alien Certificate (if any)
3. Residence Certificate (if any)
4. Work permit or an application thereof (if any)
5. Tax Identification Card
6. Letter of guarantee (if having tax liabilities or payable) issued by:
   
   Bank with guaranteed amount exceeding tax liabilities or payable or 50000 Baht; or Person whose securities are greater than his tax liabilities or payable and whose reputation is acceptable to the Director-General of the Revenue Department, the provincial governor, the assignee or a government officer of level 6 or equivalent or higher.
   
7. Tax payment records for the past three years of the company or juristic partnership which is represented by the applicant for a Tax Clearance Certificate including withholding tax receipts or tax receipts
8. Other evidence as required by the Director-General of the Revenue Department

Tax Clearance Certificate Form P. 3.1

1. The above documents 1-7
2. Evidence indicating the reasons for departing Thailand on a regular basis in connection with the business or profession of the foreigner
3. Evidence indicating that his assets in Thailand are greater than his tax liabilities or tax payable A foreigner applying for a Tax Clearance Certificate is required to file an application to the following persons within 15 days before departing Thailand:
   
   Director of the Area Revenue Office with jurisdiction over the area of residence of the foreigner if he is domiciled or has residence or place of management in Bangkok Provincial governor at the Area Revenue Office if he is domiciled or has residence or place of management in a province outside Bangkok The district chief designated by the provincial governor at the Area Revenue Office if he is domiciled or has residence or place of management in a province outside Bangkok

​

6. What to do for applicant with outstanding tax liabilities​

If the applicant for Tax Clearance Certificate makes no payment or has made a partial payment for his tax liabilities or payable after the departure date, he is required to provide a guarantor or guarantee to the Director-General of the Revenue Department or the provincial governor or the delegated authority.

7. Loss of Tax Clearance Certificate​

If the Tax Clearance Certificate is lost, the foreigner is required to contact the office where the application was filed for a replacement. The new Tax Clearance Certificate only remains valid until the expiry date of the former Tax Clearance Certificate.

8. Presentation of Tax Clearance Certificate​

A foreigner departing Thailand is required to present the Tax Clearance Certificate to the Immigration Office on the departure date.

9. Penalty​

A foreigner departing or attempting to depart Thailand without a Tax Clearance Certificate shall pay a surcharge at the rate of 20% of the tax amount. In addition he shall be subject to a fine not exceeding 1,000 Baht or an imprisonment not more than 1 month, or both.

10. For more information​

If there is any question regarding the Tax Clearance Certificate, please contact any Area Revenue Office with jurisdiction over the area of residence of the foreigner.

 

[wellington]

How long do you think real-estate market can stand in Thailand if millions $ foreign remittances have to be taxed because, let's be frank, all that money can't be structured properly to be tax exempted or fit in a tax loophole?

Thailand isn't going to be budged on the villa/condo market, because its already been built (creating GDP) - and is a annoyance as its pricing locals (natives out). - see statements for the past year by the Main Gov in Senate.

There's no need for a tax loophole/structuring, its simple, earn as much as you like overseas, just pay tax on what you remit to spend.

 

[Mercury]

I disagree with this.

1) People not declaring taxes will be flagged and their accounts observed
2) Accounts with more than 300 transactions annually are flagged (all accounts aggregated) for AML investigations.
3) Tax evasion in Thailand for Thai's usually can be dealt with via a fine -> with a Foreigner it becomes complicated, i.e you have visa(s) but you also need a exemption when leaving the country to confirm your taxes are all in order.

These are rules and there is practical application of it. There is no report, except exceptional criminal cases, of people being hit hard with tax penalties in Thailand. Tax collection is very low, this is factual.

 

[wellington]

These are rules and there is practical application of it. There is no report, except exceptional criminal cases, of people being hit hard with tax penalties in Thailand. Tax collection is very low, this is factual.

From my source in the Swiss embassy - it’s going to be tacked on to your visa process and also enforced for anyone flagging up in the country more than 180 days on disembarkation

 

[wellington]

For most people - I.e like my Neighbour the tax is like 100-300$ a year - not sure what the issue is, at worst case 4k - peanuts

 

[wellington]

Oh and for kids education - gifting to the wife from overseas or direct to school will be ignored - they said that specifically to me as my kids education will be upwards of 45k a year $ next year rising to 100,000$ a year in a few years.

 

[Mercury]

There's no need for a tax loophole/structuring, its simple, earn as much as you like overseas, just pay tax on what you remit to spend.

Most of foreign tax residents (especially Russian, Chinese, Indian ...) will certainly not pay up to 35% tax on their big remittances if it can't be easily tax-exempted. They'll simply not declare it (what they actually do) or spend their money elsewhere.

From my source in the Swiss embassy - it’s going to be tacked on to your visa process and also enforced for anyone flagging up in the country more than 180 days on disembarkation

Pure speculation at this point.

 

[wellington]

From my source in the Swiss embassy - it’s going to be tacked on to your visa process and also enforced for anyone flagging up in the country more than 180 days on disembarkation

Oh and for the arguments immigration will just let you walk through - remember this is the immigration that now stops you in departures after going through immigration as at that point you have no rights and are in no man’s land - arrests you and sends you to holding then court and then deportation centre just because you overstayed a few weeks - instead of just fining and or blacklisting when you go through immigration

 

[wellington]

Pure speculation at this point

Not my source

 

[Mercury]

Oh and for the arguments immigration will just let you walk through - remember this is the immigration that now stops you in departures after going through immigration as at that point you have no rights and are in no man’s land - arrests you and sends you to holding then court and then deportation centre just because you overstayed a few weeks - instead of just fining and or blacklisting when you go through immigration

Farang thinks too much.

 

[toums]

Something i've learned -> move funds in bulk to a specific account for annual remittance.. as its quite common for people to end with a bag over their head...

Morality : As long as it’s not necessary, there’s no need to have a Thai bank account or put money into one.

 

[toums]

What would you do differently in Bangkok vs PP / Siem Reap?

Is this a generational thing I wonder? When I was in my 20s I would go to the nightlife multiple times a week and far later at the weekends but I'm in my 50's now and I grew out of that a while back.

The only reason I moved to Asia was to avoid paying any tax. I don't care for the culture, the people or anything else. I live a 100% western lifestyle, nothing changed for me when making the move which was a long time ago.

Some differences between BKK and PP :

Condos in PP : limited choices, low quality, and/or overpriced — a perfect market for Chinese money launderers.

Restaurants, bars, and other options: probably 50 times fewer than in Bangkok.

Much less developed, everything is more complicated than in Bangkok — deliveries, services, opportunities.

BKK is a real hub with two international airports, where you can easily fly anywhere.

English proficiency is still much lower than in BKK (when compared to PP).

Also less safe than BKK (although that’s relative — still nothing like LATAM, of course).


For me, PP feels like a big village, and in my view, you need a real reason to live there — like roots (one of my best friends is French-Khmer and spends about half the year there), or for business, or because you have a Khmer wife…

But other than that, I have a hard time imagining a reason to settle in PP, within Asia.