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What about your savings (not income) that’s brought into Thailand? Is that taxed now too?
@ upto ~35%

Typical Thailand. The new rules start 1.Jan 2024. Clarification will come on 10.Jan.

Normally there is a lot of discussion until then, each and every politician will give his superb opinion. But I‘m not so sure this time. It‘s more like a tax coup.
It's already set into law.

It's a big loss for Thailand, it's given us the nudge, know many people with tens of millions invested and spending a great amount of money in the country also preparing to leave.

As they say "fuckem, they can go back to water-buffalo herding".
 
Instead of making/updating tax rules, the new Thai government should rather state they're gonna strictly enforce existing tax laws (for example, Thai banks have never checked if money from incoming international transfers was money received the previous years) but obviously they can't as everybody worldwide will laugh out loud.

In my opinion, it's just a scaremonger move targeted to Thai middle-class who increasingly invest and does business offshore. And it will be effective enough to get a big chunk of scared tax residents' money back to Thailand.

Enforcement and corruption come together. If Thailand wants to enforce laws they will have first to significantly mitigate corruption at all levels, otherwise there will always be workarounds and loopholes be it for a small fee.
That's not gonna happen tomorrow or next year, if ever in our lifetime.
 
So boyos, next step is to book flights to Philippines and get SIRV or just expect that you wont get caught in Thailand?
Hurry up, I mentioned it often enough that rules are about to change.
And they have changed already significantly since I posted it.

I can only imagine the tax agencies reading this and focusing on their new target :rolleyes:
No need. Just study the details.

If I understand this correctly, it‘s not about payments but worldwide income.

If they want to enforce this, everyone with a longterm visa would be obligated to file a tax return.
Exactly that will be the case, starting 2024.

Thailand has always imposed tax on worldwide income.
And now, since the remittance loophole has been closed, everyone who is a tax resident will have to PAY.
That's why the government talks about "loophole".

Typical Thailand. The new rules start 1.Jan 2024. Clarification will come on 10.Jan.

Normally there is a lot of discussion until then, each and every politician will give his superb opinion. But I‘m not so sure this time. It‘s more like a tax coup.
It's a new government. Completely different focus. They are not interested in the few Elite guys, rich Farangs ...
The current enragement is just a 'Storm in a teacup.

Think what happened in MY last year with all the changes regarding MM2H - at the end MY is still doing fine, despite a few foreigners leaving.
 
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Not sure if this was posted here already:
https://www.thaienquirer.com/50755/...ds-risks-falling-flat-due-to-lack-of-clarity/
There seems to be a lot of discussion ahead. Everyone including banks were caught on the wrong foot.

Yes, surprised Pikachu. Been seeing variants of that meme since UAE enacted CIT. These countries are attractive until suddenly they're not and you're thrown into a lot of uncertainty, due to the fickle nature of totalitarian regimes.
Interesting though that the military regime of the last 9 years brought more stability than the more or less democratic government now.
 
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Not sure if this was posted here already:
https://www.thaienquirer.com/50755/...ds-risks-falling-flat-due-to-lack-of-clarity/
There seems to be a lot of discussion ahead. Everyone including banks were caught on the wrong foot.
This article is classified as an "opinion" and lacks substance.
The author clearly has no idea what he is writing about. It can be dismissed as the desperate attempt to change what can't be changed anymore.
Example:
1000038980.jpg

https://www.thaienquirer.com/50755/...ds-risks-falling-flat-due-to-lack-of-clarity/
Compare this nonsense opinion with ->
1000038985.jpg

1000038983.jpg

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html
Face reality: Move or pay!
 
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Even if this comes through, the solution is as simple as spending only 6 months in Thailand to avoid the paperwork. Plenty of countries around Thailand that provide similar high quality of life (Vietnam comes to mind).

In any case, global tendencies are not looking good, with every country raising or adding taxes they didn't have. Maybe we should all give up and move to Sweden en masse? :p
 
Thailand to start taxing overseas income next year, including from crypto

Any person who resides in Thailand for up to 180 days, would be subject to personal income tax on foreign assets, including crypto. The new rule will take effect on Jan 1, 2024, with the first tax forms, including overseas income to be delivered in 2025.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-thailand-tax-overseas-income
 
Based on discussions this evening, over the past few days with fellow elite, residents, agents, tax advisors, etc....

Dubai looked promising until factor in 9% corporate tax for a corporate i am shareholder off, but has largish returns in 5/10yr ranges.

Personal tax Dubai was ok...

This is based on the Labuan + Malaysia Expatriate Visa.

May be of help to others and perhaps build a community in Malaysia.

Personal Aspect:
Under the MM2H visa, expats are not required to pay tax on their income, no matter where it comes from, as long as it's remitted from overseas. This includes interest earned on income sitting in accounts in Malaysia. Currently cash rates are at 3%, while five-year deposit rates are at 5%.

Commercial Aspect:

The rate of tax imposed is 3% of audited net profits for trading activity and zero percent for non-trading activity, provided that the Labuan entities are in compliance with the tax substantial activity requirements.

*Note i have 0% tax written for Labuan as they want companies in specific fields to move there... fit that bracket, not the same for all, but 3% is ok...

_Screenshot-2023-09-19-at-230055.png
 
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@wellington thanks for sharing this! I can see Penang, is it where you are looking at? If you haven't spent there more than 2-3 days I would recommend you to go and check. I found people there extremely slow, not a very active community and despite being an Island, its beaches were terrible, on the Pattaya style. I do not know where you live now, but if you live in Bangkok then for you and your family Penang can be a big change.
 
Just a point of note

There's been a lot of discussion (here i think) and elsewhere about utilising ATM withdrawals.

There is an issue with this idea, and I'll explain what it is.

Set aside that cards can be linked to you via CRS or via KYC information with the card provider, this i am not referring to and is well known going back quite a few years.

I am referring to cards without a Identity assigned to them, lets say dark cards.

In Thailand all ATM's capture your face when withdrawing, this information is stored/archived in their backend system, this information can be automated into under a 30 seconds for facial recognition, which can tie against your Immigration capture (yes every-time you pass through a immigration checkpoint they capture you even if you are not aware - i've seen the Thai interpol system access and FBI equivalent system in Thailand first hand).

Second people may laud at the idea of Thailand and Facial recognition, I won't because most of the staff that went on to build out the Thai AI system(s) for intel, counter-intel etc used to work for my company and on leaving or interning and qualifying a lot went to the Government.


The process for tying a ANON Card + Face + Immigration + CRS information = under 1minute flat.

It also doesn't take much to blacklist a card from the system...

So i would think again on that approach if considering.

If you have assets or a place of centre in Thailand this would be highly risky.

If not then potential fines, amol, prison, deportation etc (trust me you don't want to get on the bad-side of the revenue department, or Anti-Money Laundering department of Thailand).

@wellington thanks for sharing this! I can see Penang, is it where you are looking at? If you haven't spent there more than 2-3 days I would recommend you to go and check. I found people there extremely slow, not a very active community and despite being an Island, its beaches were terrible, on the Pattaya style. I do not know where you live now, but if you live in Bangkok then for you and your family Penang can be a big change.
Penang i went to about a decade ago.

I think (or Johor) it would be suitable, note we will only be using to get around this idiotic new policy (-180 days Thailand) in a tax event year, the Company move to Labuan and power/control transfer was always on the cards due to polarised world and the policies coming into control the flow of technology.

So as to benefit as a shareholder but ultimately not breach any national or international laws based on the market segregation within the confines of international law (West will restrict AI for control, Global South will embrace it).

I (me) personally live off savings but now savings can be considered taxable ~35% because I used to live in a Tax haven rather than say the countries where the tax treaties exist.

So roughing it, with the ability to head to Thailand for a weekend etc, as well as Indonesia/HK/SG is the main reason Malaysia has appeal outside of the structuring of personal or commercial.

Dubai i was in previously and it was soul crushing... + tax commercial too high.
 
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Under the MM2H visa, expats are not required to pay tax on their income, no matter where it comes from, as long as it's remitted from overseas. This includes interest earned on income sitting in accounts in Malaysia. Currently cash rates are at 3%, while five-year deposit rates are at 5%.
This is a slight misunderstanding, there is no special tax laws for mm2h, although it has been promoted by agents as tax free. Now foreign income is taxable when remitted to Malaysia, unless it's been taxed before or not taxable under a tax treaty.
 
For me I will spend the water season in Thailand as it starts Nov-May, then head out end of April (friends leave) Malaysia, camp there will July, head to Swiss (pay wealth tax) for the summer, then do the remainder Malay/Indo/HK/SG till the end of the year.

Will move funds in for a couple of years (2026) and live off those till the next dividends season comes up.

As for the Elite Visa, i've written that off, will in future just do tourist visa or visa exempt when that expires in 2026 time period.

This is a slight misunderstanding, there is no special tax laws for mm2h, although it has been promoted by agents as tax free. Now foreign income is taxable when remitted to Malaysia, unless it's been taxed before or not taxable under a tax treaty.
Based on my interpretation if you don't remit its tax free.

So living in Malaysia depositing into overseas bank (thai+overseas) its not income in Malaysia (remitted) = tax free as they are retaining their onshore income tax system but not overseas (which Thailand is loosing).

Worst case (the accountant + agent recommended as part of the Labuan setup).

https://premiatnc.com/my/blog/mm2h-programme/
Just stay under 180 days in Malaysia also.
 
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