Stock market investors, where you at?

[glengoolie]

just a quick math...
say you start with 1 000 000€ capital and you make 25% a year. you withdraw 60 000€ a year for personal expenses and day to day life via dividend.

Estonia:

year capital eoy eoy net dividend dividend net
1 1000000 1250000 1250000 60000 51000
2 1190000 1487500 1487500 60000 51000
3 1427500 1784375 1784375 60000 51000
4 1724375 2155469 2155469 60000 51000
5 2095469 2619336 2619336 60000 51000
6 2559336 3199170 3199170 60000 51000
7 3139170 3923962 3923962 60000 51000
8 3863962 4829953 4829953 60000 51000
9 4769953 5962441 5962441 60000 51000
10 5902441 7378052 7378052 60000 51000
net: 5854441
net dividend: 4976275

Cyprus:

year capital eoy eoy net dividend dividend net
1 1000000 1250000 1218750 60000 60000
2 1158750 1448438 1412227 60000 60000
3 1352227 1690283 1648026 60000 60000
4 1588026 1985033 1935407 60000 60000
5 1875407 2344259 2285652 60000 60000
6 2225652 2782065 2712513 60000 60000
7 2652513 3315642 3232751 60000 60000
8 3172751 3965938 3866790 60000 60000
9 3806790 4758488 4639525 60000 60000
10 4579525 5724407 5581297 60000 60000

Andorra:

year capital eoy eoy net dividend dividend net
1 1000000 1250000 1225000 60000 54000
2 1165000 1456250 1427125 60000 54000
3 1367125 1708906 1674728 60000 54000
4 1614728 2018410 1978042 60000 54000
5 1918042 2397552 2349601 60000 54000
6 2289601 2862002 2804762 60000 54000
7 2744762 3430952 3362333 60000 54000
8 3302333 4127916 4045358 60000 54000
9 3985358 4981698 4882064 60000 54000
10 4822064 6027579 5907028 60000 54000

Bulgaria:

year capital eoy eoy net dividend dividend net
1 1000000 1250000 1225000 60000 57000
2 1165000 1456250 1427125 60000 57000
3 1367125 1708906 1674728 60000 57000
4 1614728 2018410 1978042 60000 57000
5 1918042 2397552 2349601 60000 57000
6 2289601 2862002 2804762 60000 57000
7 2744762 3430952 3362333 60000 57000
8 3302333 4127916 4045358 60000 57000
9 3985358 4981698 4882064 60000 57000
10 4822064 6027579 5907028 60000 57000

 

[troubled soul]

In some country , It is very complex way to decide You are taxable or not .
If it is long term or Short term.
Are you an active Trader or Hobby Trader?
Best way to find solution , is hire Tax lawyer.

 

[glengoolie]

User Don, who might chime in with some info here later on, has pointed me out to the estonian limited partnership that could act as umbrella for investments.
https://www.estvca.ee/news/the-new-estonian-liimited-partnership-regime
as i understand it, you can set it up and either be the General Partner with someone acting as Limited Partner where GP could be the manager of the "fund". Or you could be LP and GP would be a hired management firm.

Either way, this LP could then "invest" into A Cyprus or UAE company to trade stocks. The proftis would then be distributed to the parent, this LP, and then they would get distributed to the partners and taxed at their place of residence instead of Estonia.

If i understand it correctly, this allows for the control to be set in estonia but taxation to be set wherever you are located. In other words, if I would take the cyprus-malaysia example from my initial post, the cyprus company would be used to trade stocks. the estonian LP would own this cyprus company. at the end of the year, the profits from the cyprus company would be distributed to the estonian parent company but they wold not be taxed there. instead they would be distributed to me, in malaysia, where they would be taxed as gains on capital with 0% tax. so the LP allows to split the control, that would usually cause the company to be taxed at my place of tax residence, and the taxation of the profits, which can be exempt under CGT.

which is like a hammer for the "control" aspect of international business that causes so much trouble.

i will research this more but i am quite hopeful

 

[glengoolie]

as i have said, i need to research this thoroughly but this is what i envision it could look like...

 

[glengoolie]

beside the split of control and taxation, it seems this also allows to transform the type of income which decides how it will be taxed. so even if the income from trading would be considered under corporate income tax in cyprus(which is presently disputed), the company would be "taxed" in estonia and in there the profit from cyprus would be distributed via the estonian company for the actual taxation that is deferred to the partners and it becomes investment income which can be tax exempt under CGT.

I hope Don will get in here and give some info so I can stop talking to myself

 

[glengoolie]

so my posts are being deleted. so i guess i bid you all good day and admins can go f**k themselves. consider this request for content and account deletion...if you abide by the rules.

 

[zzzzzz]

The easiest and most affordable way to achieve your goal is to setup a Dubai Company, get the Residence Visa through the Dubai Company and get a local Business Bank Account for your Dubai Company.

Once this is setup you can open an Interactive Brokers Account in the name of the Dubai Company and the only thing they care about is that the money is coming from a real physical Business Bank Account in the name of your Dubai Company.

The process is pretty fast and straightforward and UAE is working with IBKR pretty well - they just want to see every year updated company documents or if something has changed to the Dubai Company itself.

They accept Personal Bank Statement from UAE bank so you even don't need to live the whole year in the UAE. You are only required to come 1 day every 6 months to the UAE to keep this setup working.

I recommend you this setup for your financial center and to live in some of the countries you mentioned like Georgia, Cyprus and Malaysia or you simple register nowhere for residence and simple travel around as you have your financial center in UAE anyway. This is working till the very end even for having 10m+$ and going with some Private Bank in the DIFC here in Dubai as the residence is getting less and less important for the banks once you reach significant figures (5m+$).

As always the UAE side is pretty simple and solid so once you have your UAE setup you need to check with local tax advisor of let's say Cyprus, Gerogie or Malaysia what's additional required for your Dubai Company Setup to satisfy the local tax authorities of the beside countries.

Are there any benefits trading your personal assets through company vs. individual? If you have UAE residence visa through freezone company formation (0% corporate/personal taxes) it doesn't matter, right? With company you have to open corporate brokerage account, more paper work, sell assets in your personal brokerage account, transfer assets to corporate brokerage account, you also have to pay professional rates (data fees...etc.). In case you want to change residency or UAE adopts mandatory accounting for companies, things can get much more complicated. I assume it's also much easier to open secondary backup personal bank account abroad vs . corporate bank account.

Am I missing something?

 

[Fred]

Are there any benefits trading your personal assets through company vs. individual? If you have UAE residence visa through freezone company formation (0% corporate/personal taxes) it doesn't matter, right? With company you have to open corporate brokerage account, more paper work, sell assets in your personal brokerage account, transfer assets to corporate brokerage account, you also have to pay professional rates (data fees...etc.). In case you want to change residency or UAE adopts mandatory accounting for companies, things can get much more complicated. I assume it's also much easier to open secondary backup personal bank account abroad vs . corporate bank account.

Am I missing something?

It depends.

A company can always give you a second layer of security as the assets are under the company name.

Especially speaking for Dubai Company it simply makes sense to have everything under the Company as many people having Company in Dubai are travelling around so Proof of Address can be much more difficult.

Like mentioned before Dubai Company with IBKR Company Account is a closed working system as the UAE bank doesn't need a Proof of Address like you know it from EU and IBKR accept the Bank Statement of the local UAE Company Account - even Flexi Desk.

So that said it's only for the case with Dubai Company with IBKR - as you only have more benefits then the other way around with personal account.

I know that most Brokers don't like this and try to force you to use personal accounts like Swissquote and Saxo Bank.

However starting from some point of 2-5m$ the private banks that normally do the custody for you in that case and not some discount broker are fine with both and not really care about - some say it's unnecessary and additional headache to have assets under company/holding some say it's additional layer of privacy etc.

Personal taste if you ask me on this point - personally I would always separate my wealth with an entity. However the other said saying it could makes things more complicated is understandable as well.

In the case of Dubai Company + IBKR it's the simplest and straightforward under company more the personal that's why we recommend it and because there are no additional fees only benefits.

 

[zzzzzz]

Especially speaking for Dubai Company it simply makes sense to have everything under the Company as many people having Company in Dubai are travelling around so Proof of Address can be much more difficult.

Like mentioned before Dubai Company with IBKR Company Account is a closed working system as the UAE bank doesn't need a Proof of Address like you know it from EU and IBKR accept the Bank Statement of the local UAE Company Account - even Flexi Desk.

Does IBKR also request proof of address for company's Ultimate Beneficial Owner (bank statement of personal account at UAE bank)?

 

[Fred]

Does IBKR also request proof of address for company's Ultimate Beneficial Owner (bank statement of personal account at UAE bank)?

Yes.

As the personal account statement looks like this when opened together with business account:

JOHN DOE
OWNER
JOHN DOE COMPANY
JOHN DOE COMPANY ADDRESS

It's the smoothest to open Account under Company for UAE with IBKR as they are then accept the PoA. Other way around not for whatever reason.

 

[Golden Fleece]

so my posts are being deleted. so i guess i bid you all good day and admins can go f**k themselves. consider this request for content and account deletion...if you abide by the rules.

For those of us who are relatively new to the forum, do the moderators provide an explanation of why they deleted a post -- so that members can learn, if they inadvertently make a mistake? Alternatively, is there some type of warning system that accomplishes that same goal?

Obviously, if you create a thread on how and why to send cash to North Korea, no explanation is necessary, but not everything is so so clear cut.

 

[Don]

overall the purely cyprus solution is the easiest, fastest and cheapest one there is. unless you rely heavily on dividends. you can set it up so you live there only two months per year so it gives you the most freedom...unless you would like to live full time in malaysia, for example. it comes down to personal preference. and there is still a chances that you could trade without a company and pay 0% CGT. but this is presently disputed and there is no official statement yet.

Cyprus company is probably the easiest for simple trading activities.
0% tax setup with around 4k annual costs.

 

[Piano]

For those of us who are relatively new to the forum, do the moderators provide an explanation of why they deleted a post -- so that members can learn, if they inadvertently make a mistake? Alternatively, is there some type of warning system that accomplishes that same goal?

Obviously, if you create a thread on how and why to send cash to North Korea, no explanation is necessary, but not everything is so so clear cut.

Yeah, what happened ?

 

[Golden Fleece]

Yeah, what happened ?

Glengoolie was banned after complaining that the moderators deleted some of his posts. Obviously, he handled it poorly and cursed at them rather than asking for some type of explanation as to why his posts were deleted.

I asked for a clarification because, if I provide value to the forum, I do not want to spend time posting information only to have it disappear without a reason. A fair process would be to apprise a member of a rule violation so that he can learn from his mistake and take corrective action in the future. That is why I asked my question in post #34 regarding any existing procedure.

 

[andrew28fl]

The easiest and most affordable way to achieve your goal is to setup a Dubai Company, get the Residence Visa through the Dubai Company and get a local Business Bank Account for your Dubai Company.

Once this is setup you can open an Interactive Brokers Account in the name of the Dubai Company and the only thing they care about is that the money is coming from a real physical Business Bank Account in the name of your Dubai Company.

Fred, a question regarding this. Does this Dubai Company need to maintain financial records, do accounting and have them audited every year?

Is there a way to bypass company formation, and operate under a personal account? Open a bank account in your own name, then get a Interactive Brokers Account, and move money from your bank account to the Interactive Brokers account? Would this make it easier by skipping the need for accounting etc?

 

[Fred]

Fred, a question regarding this. Does this Dubai Company need to maintain financial records, do accounting and have them audited every year?

In the way we do the setup - no.

Is there a way to bypass company formation, and operate under a personal account? Open a bank account in your own name, then get a Interactive Brokers Account, and move money from your bank account to the Interactive Brokers account? Would this make it easier by skipping the need for accounting etc?

No - the Company Formation grants you the Residence Visa that gives you access to the local UAE Bank Accounts.

 

[Cetme308win]

Cyprus company is probably the easiest for simple trading activities.
0% tax setup with around 4k annual costs.

There are better options as well

 

[Cetme308win]

In the way we do the setup - no.

No - the Company Formation grants you the Residence Visa that gives you access to the local UAE Bank Accounts.

The setup would be a dubai free zone righ?

 

[Fred]

The setup would be a dubai free zone righ?

Exactly. But take care the above is only valid for the Freezone we work with. Not all Freezones are the same.

 

[Cetme308win]

Exactly. But take care the above is only valid for the Freezone we work with. Not all Freezones are the same.

I know....there are freezones where you cannot get a simple bank account ...
which freezone is best for financial business ??