Question Safe places (Banks, EMI) to keep legit earned money?

[Aldebaran]

Hello everyone,
I have an online business with an Hungary resident Company.
I pay corporate HU tax (9%) and PIT 15% (Personal income Tax) in Hungary.
For someone paying a combine 25% of taxes on hard earned money can be too much but I preferred the "Safer than sorry approach",
since Hungary it´s not too greedy on taxes I pay them in full and sleep well at night.

My question so is "where to keep safe earned money?"

At the moment the assets (7 figures) are split between:
Brick and mortar bank accounts,
WISE (formerly TransferWise),
Paypal,
Precious Metals
Cash

Since the bank accounts are becoming too fat, and I do not want to open another traditional bank account, where do you suggest to keep them?
What is your opinion??

Thank you

 

[Golden Fleece]

My friend went all in on crypto in 2013. Now he has over $100,000,000.

I have posted my nuanced take on crypto before.

It has been the best buy of the quarter, the year, the decade.

It's still a speculation. According to the National Endowment for Financial Education, about 70 percent of people who win a lottery or receive a large windfall go bankrupt within a few years.

People who gain windfalls do not know how to be good stewards of their money, because they have not earned it -- and they do not respect the skill, hard work, and determination necessary to create a fortune. Many crypto millionaires will consider their luck as genius and they will eventually be broke as a result. I would not be surprised to eventually learn that, statistically, the bankruptcy rate turns out to be about the same as for those who win a lottery.

 

[CaptK]

Everything is a risk. Land can be affected by flood, earthquake and locust.

Crypto is what it is, speculation! Just the same as stocks and shares. The price is driven up by performance and scarcity.

Consistency is key and always have an exit strategy. Pick your poison and hope it doesn't kill you.

 

[Silvio]

Banks in capitalist countries in Latin America still work within real markets. There is no NIRP or ZIRP. In fact, there are often no mortgages for real estate. Couples often save for a home until they can afford to pay in cash. You can get 4%-5% for CDs in USD. You might pay 12% for a car loan, if you can get one. In short, people operate in a real capitalist environment with real interest rates, just like in the U.S. before 2008. So, of course outside investors are needed in a true capitalist economy where interest rates are at normal market levels.

Heck, I just made a one year fully collateralized bridge loan in the U.S. for 15%, because the business is expanding so quickly that it needs multiple sources of funds, more than it can get from just banks. People are lazy and unwilling to think outside the box when it comes to investing, which is why they collectively make the same mistakes over-and-over again. This is exactly why history repeats itself -- and why I am so interested in repeating cycles.

So the business is growing so much and yielding so much money and cashflow (I'm assuming over 15% per year) that it can't finance itself and it needs a bridge loan from you that a local bank refuses to give? OK then, I hope it works out for you.

I don't understand how can anybody think that the global monetary system is doomed and about to crash, and at the same time trust anything based in Latin America...

 

[Golden Fleece]

I don't understand how can anybody think that the global monetary system is doomed and about to crash, and at the same time trust anything based in Latin America...

Uh . . . because Latin America and much of SEA actually operates on a capitalist system, just like the U.S. did before 2008. On a related note, in regard to correlation there are countries in SEA that did not experience either the 2000 or the 2008 financial crises, because their economies are not yet global.

In fact, some of these countries do not even have central banks, so they cannot manipulate interest rates. I trust a capitalist system because I know how it works. I cannot successfully navigate an arbitrary socialist / crony capitalist system. This is economics 101.

BTW: I never said that "the global monetary system is doomed and about to crash." There will be a great reset, which is far from doom, and no one knows when that will happen. As I noted earlier, based on those three books about cycles, the most likely time frame for the next financial calamity is 2025-2028. Is that also when the great reset will happen? Who knows.

In short, I make investments that make sense whether or not a great reset occurs. Those investments place me in a great defensive position should the worst happen, but they also provide superior returns with far less volatility even if the world continues to just muddle along. It is a win-win scenario. It is not as if I am dumping my life savings into guns, ammunition, and a secret underground bunker in Idaho.

 

[Silvio]

Are we talking about the same Latin America?

This is worse than a lost decade, more like a lost 15 years. In this environment even if you get a nice yield, who knows what will you get when you actually try to sell your land.

Not to mention the biggest risk in Latin America which are their currencies that lose value like crazy, even against the USD that is being printed non stop (which is pretty amazing if you think about it). I know a few investors in latin america that made money in local currency but realized that they in fact lost money in Dollar terms.

A country that hasn't heard of the concept of mortgages for real estate doesn't sound like a very capitalist system for me. But if it works for you, that's great.

 

[Silvio]

Actually I just checked because it was interesting, apparently the Brazilian Real is one of the strongest currencies in LATAM, and in the 5 years got crushed against the USD from 1 USD = 3.23 BRL to 5.57 BRL.
This means that even if you got 72% on your investment in 5 years (which is incredible any way you look at it), you still lost money in Dollar terms.

 

[Golden Fleece]

Are we talking about the same Latin America?

You are looking at all of Latin America, which includes places such as Venezuela, Cuba, and Haiti. I am looking at one specific country that is the cream of the crop (there are actually several).

There are a dozen countries that use the USD as their currency and another dozen where it is used as a quasi-currency. Not included in those two dozen countries are countries that use the USD for real estate transactions. All the potential evils that you discuss can be avoided or mitigated through proper due diligence and planning.

Mortgages are part of the banking cartel -- the same cartel that has caused untold misery throughout the Western world today.

My whole theme here is to urge people to think outside the box. You are unwilling to do that, so you see the negative in everything instead of all the opportunities. That is not a criticism, just an observation. Most people are like that -- and it is very difficult for them to change.

Almost everything good in my life, personal and professional, came from outside the box thinking. Average thinking equals average results (at best) or running off the cliff with the rest of the herd (at worst).

 

[jjrapy]

For sure you can have a good return in southamerica investing in real estate / farmland. I think that’s indisputable. But of course it requires a lot of time, initial capital, effort, etc.

What's interesting for me is that the flow of investments (to call it someway) is like non-south americans want to invest here (and of course with the USD power it is very easy) and we (south americans) want to invest outside because of the easiness for average investor to gain access to financial markets that are non existent in south america or are poor developed.
Real estate is very expensive for us, as you already mentioned, USD dominates real estate market so only options we have is to open a business, CD, bonds, a few stocks, and some mutual funds.
Even to gain access to some bonds, stocks and mutual funds you must be like a vip client to the bank or broker.

 

[4br]

In answer to the OP.

My main aim is to get a very large tract of land in Russia, big enough that I can gift or non-usury mortgage parcels off to fellow travellers. Although Russia has it's problems economically and suffers from top-to-bottom corruption, I like the social stance and that it is the only country with any considerable weight that stands out against the internationalist system. The house would be stocked with all I need to survive total collapse, principally: food, water, seeds, electricity and knowledge. As mentioned this is a bulwark against collapse. I am experienced in growing fruit and vegetables.

As a bulwark against either serious turbulence in my life or considerable economic turbulence, $100,000 in gold in a TL-max safe set in concrete.

As a bulwark against modest turbulence in my life or the economy $5,000 in various bank notes, small units of gold, and a fistful of debit cards. I already have this as it is quite simple.

Spread assets far and wide. Current:

EMIs: Advcash (Belize, easy), Airwallex (HK, easy), Bankera (LT, intermediate), Payoneer (US, easy), Wise (UK, easy), PayPal (US, easy), Paysera (UK, easy)
Hybrid crypto-banking wallets: Bitwala (DE, easy), Crypteriun (US, easy), Payeer (EE, easy), Revolut (US, easy), Uphold (US, easy), Crypto.com (Malta, easy), Eidoo (CH, easy), SwissBorg (CH, easy), Celsius (UK, easy), Nexo (UK, easy - personal and business)
Banks: First Abu Dhabi Bank (AE, easy), Emirates NBD (AE, easy), RAKBANK (AE, personal - intermediate; business - difficult), Mashreq (AE, easy but with address requirement), AmeriaBank (AM, intermediate), Adikko (RS, easy)
Crypto: SafePal (hardware wallet, zero), Binance (Malta, easy), Bilaxy (HK, almost none), BitOasis (AE, easy), FTX (HK, easy - personal and business), Rain (BH, easy), Youholder (CH, easy)
Brokerage: DukasCopy (CH, easy), eToro (IS, easy), SwissQuote (AE-CH, intermediate)
Crypto yield farms: Autofarm.network, Beefy.Finance, Acryptos.com, Alpacafinance.org, 1Inch.network

easy, intermediate etc. refers to KYC.

Current spread: 70% crypto* / 30% cash, some real estate

* I have played this game before and sold at the top in 2017

 

[Golden Fleece]

For sure you can have a good return in southamerica investing in real estate / farmland. I think that’s indisputable. But of course it requires a lot of time, initial capital, effort, etc.

What's interesting for me is that the flow of investments (to call it someway) is like non-south americans want to invest here (and of course with the USD power it is very easy) and we (south americans) want to invest outside because of the easiness for average investor to gain access to financial markets that are non existent in south america or are poor developed.
Real estate is very expensive for us, as you already mentioned, USD dominates real estate market so only options we have is to open a business, CD, bonds, a few stocks, and some mutual funds.
Even to gain access to some bonds, stocks and mutual funds you must be like a vip client to the bank or broker.

I always watch what the very wealthy say and do, because they have access to the best information and often have access to inside information. I watched how the super-wealthy elite in Venezuela fled almost immediately after the election of Hugo Chavez, then the rich (often buying condos in Miami, Panama City, and elsewhere), then the professionals, then the upper-middle-class. Only within the last five years or so have the working poor finally fled into Colombia and elsewhere. The smartest and wealthiest people always leave first.

maxmmm criticizes the perma-bears, and rightly so. But what are some of the super-wealthy and knowledgeable financial people in the U.S. saying? Ray Dalio is the founder of one of the largest investment firms in the world and has amassed a personal fortune nearing $20 billion from his business and investment acumen.

Dalio writes that, as a result of new tax policy and other destructive rules, “the United States could be perceived as a place that is inhospitable to capitalism and capitalists.” Dalio believes there is “the possibility of capital controls” to prevent money from exiting the United States, as well as “prohibitions against capital movements to other assets” outside of the US dollar like “gold, Bitcoin, etc.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021...fund-manager-urges-diversification-out-dollar
Jamie Dimon, CEO of banking giant JP Morgan and another billionaire, published his annual shareholder letter, where he addressed a litany of problems in the U.S. and concluded: "This time it may be different,” i.e., perhaps this time the US does not emerge stronger from a crisis. You can read his annual shareholder letter here:
https://reports.jpmorganchase.com/investor-relations/2020/ar-ceo-letters.htm#n7

 

[JohnLocke]

The smartest and wealthiest people always leave first.

because they can..

It's always easier if you have millions compared to the average Joe with only a few hundred thousands.

 

[jjrapy]

because they can..

It's always easier if you have millions compared to the average Joe with only a few hundred thousands.

that’s a point

 

[Silvio]

I'm pretty sure that "Venezuela, Cuba, and Haiti" are not included in the MSCI Index of Latin America. Almost any fund that was focused in Latin America is still 50% down from its 2009 peak and it will take them a long time to get back there (for example BlackRock Latin American Investment Trust), so your point about LATAM countries avoiding the 2009 crash is not correct.

Mortgages are part of the banking cartel -- the same cartel that has caused untold misery throughout the Western world today.

My whole theme here is to urge people to think outside the box. You are unwilling to do that, so you see the negative in everything instead of all the opportunities. That is not a criticism, just an observation. Most people are like that -- and it is very difficult for them to change.

Almost everything good in my life, personal and professional, came from outside the box thinking. Average thinking equals average results (at best) or running off the cliff with the rest of the herd (at worst).

Now we're talking about the (((banking cartel)))... Soon we'll talk about free masons and then we'll blame the lizard people for all the woes of the world...

It really is funny that I used to think very similar to you not too long ago. I'm happy to see also the positives in your idea, if you would share any... So far you've avoided the most important questions- namely what yield you're actually getting and also why such a successful business needs a bridge loan from you at 15% that a local bank refuses to give.

I guess it's your right not to answer, shame you will keep such a great business only for yourself... I'll guess I'll miss out on this 20%+ p.a. farm investment, but I wish you all the best with it.

P.S. You gotta admit it's pretty hilarious that a guy that thinks the entire West is going to crash, stock markets are a scam, the banking cartels brings misery to the entire world, mortgages are evil, we gotta go back to farming because there will be a "liquidity event" ... and you're telling me that I see the negative in everything

 

[Golden Fleece]

I'm pretty sure that "Venezuela, Cuba, and Haiti" are not included in the MSCI Index of Latin America. Almost any fund that was focused in Latin America is still 50% down from its 2009 peak and it will take them a long time to get back there (for example BlackRock Latin American Investment Trust), so your point about LATAM countries avoiding the 2009 crash is not correct.

My original point was 100% correct regarding the fund not being representative of Latin American economies, because the top ten investments in the MSCI Index of Latin America consist solely of Brazilian and Mexican stocks.

https://www.msci.com/documents/1019...ntries include,period had the index existed).

In fact, 85% of the total value of the fund is represented by only those two nations. So, the problem with using that fund as any type of standard for Latin American economies is actually much worse than I thought. The fund is not, in any way, representative of the Latin American economies as a whole (much less one in which I would do business).

https://www.msci.com/documents/1019...ntries include,period had the index existed).

P.S. You gotta admit it's pretty hilarious that a guy that thinks the entire West is going to crash, stock markets are a scam, the banking cartels brings misery to the entire world, mortgages are evil, we gotta go back to farming because there will be a "liquidity event" ... and you're telling me that I see the negative in everything

I am simply preparing for the worst while hoping for the best, while getting far higher yields with far less volatility than I could get with any financial instruments. I guess that is what passes for insanity today. Dumping your entire life savings into unproven crypto is just dandy, but farming and growing food is absolutely insane.

 

[DavidS]

I always watch what the very wealthy say and do, because they have access to the best information and often have access to inside information. I watched how the super-wealthy elite in Venezuela fled almost immediately after the election of Hugo Chavez, then the rich (often buying condos in Miami, Panama City, and elsewhere), then the professionals, then the upper-middle-class. Only within the last five years or so have the working poor finally fled into Colombia and elsewhere. The smartest and wealthiest people always leave first.

maxmmm criticizes the perma-bears, and rightly so. But what are some of the super-wealthy and knowledgeable financial people in the U.S. saying? Ray Dalio is the founder of one of the largest investment firms in the world and has amassed a personal fortune nearing $20 billion from his business and investment acumen.

Dalio writes that, as a result of new tax policy and other destructive rules, “the United States could be perceived as a place that is inhospitable to capitalism and capitalists.” Dalio believes there is “the possibility of capital controls” to prevent money from exiting the United States, as well as “prohibitions against capital movements to other assets” outside of the US dollar like “gold, Bitcoin, etc.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021...fund-manager-urges-diversification-out-dollar
Jamie Dimon, CEO of banking giant JP Morgan and another billionaire, published his annual shareholder letter, where he addressed a litany of problems in the U.S. and concluded: "This time it may be different,” i.e., perhaps this time the US does not emerge stronger from a crisis. You can read his annual shareholder letter here:
https://reports.jpmorganchase.com/investor-relations/2020/ar-ceo-letters.htm#n7

So what will be the signs?

US will ban Bitcoin? Now that we are about to have Bitcoin ETF and public companies are holding it?

Will they ban holding GLD ETFs?

If US does this, and they know it, it will just drive away even more investors. It will lessen the trust even more.

You can't just hold onto money by sheer power it will find a way to trickle away.

You need to establish a system that incentivises people to keep money in US and in USD.

I personally think all of this is overblown.

Look at DXY, the dollar strength index, DXY | U.S. Dollar Index (DXY) Advanced Charts | MarketWatch

Is it really doom and gloom? It has been worse off before and we are fine.

People tend to forget that other currencies are no better.

And no, you can't "flee to Bitcoin", because at end of the day you have to pay your taxes in USD.

 

[Cetme308win]

I always watch what the very wealthy say and do, because they have access to the best information and often have access to inside information. I watched how the super-wealthy elite in Venezuela fled almost immediately after the election of Hugo Chavez, then the rich (often buying condos in Miami, Panama City, and elsewhere), then the professionals, then the upper-middle-class. Only within the last five years or so have the working poor finally fled into Colombia and elsewhere. The smartest and wealthiest people always leave first.

maxmmm criticizes the perma-bears, and rightly so. But what are some of the super-wealthy and knowledgeable financial people in the U.S. saying? Ray Dalio is the founder of one of the largest investment firms in the world and has amassed a personal fortune nearing $20 billion from his business and investment acumen.

Dalio writes that, as a result of new tax policy and other destructive rules, “the United States could be perceived as a place that is inhospitable to capitalism and capitalists.” Dalio believes there is “the possibility of capital controls” to prevent money from exiting the United States, as well as “prohibitions against capital movements to other assets” outside of the US dollar like “gold, Bitcoin, etc.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021...fund-manager-urges-diversification-out-dollar
Jamie Dimon, CEO of banking giant JP Morgan and another billionaire, published his annual shareholder letter, where he addressed a litany of problems in the U.S. and concluded: "This time it may be different,” i.e., perhaps this time the US does not emerge stronger from a crisis. You can read his annual shareholder letter here:
https://reports.jpmorganchase.com/investor-relations/2020/ar-ceo-letters.htm#n7

with the democrats in power capital control measures can be applied for sure but that will mean the death of america as well as a financial apocalypse that would kill capitalism.....
If that happens you not only will want to have gold,bitcoin and other defensive assets but plenty of AK47 and ammo because the world could be turned into a worst place