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Proper Banking for Crypto Cashout Marshall/BVI company. EU Resident

#22
Okay, there were some serious misunderstandings here in this discussion.

First, actually Poland has double tax treaty with US.
Second, it is very unwise for Polish tax resident to cash out cryptos for himself if he wishes to avoid tax.

Solution is relatively simple - one has to change his/her tax residency to a country which will not tax him/her on the crypto income. There is actually no need to create an offshore company to bypass the funds. The only idea I have about this advice is that lawyers are afraid that previous crypto trade will be allocated to Mark because under Polish law there can be different interpretation of moment of creation of tax liability towards state. And that is why they are proposing offshore company - to pretend that it was traded not by Mark himself, but via offshore company.

This may also not work for some reasons (e.g. tax avoidance clause in Polish tax code and mainly because Mark was Polish tax resident during that time). So from my perspective it will not give Mark any extra layer of protection. So, we go back to the simple things - we need to switch residency. Why? First of all, because any legitimate bank (let's say Barclay's or other private bank) has to comply with CRS. Under CRS they will report bank account UBO to the country of residency. Because Poland is well known for its irritating tax authorities it is better not to cash out as a Polish resident.

Somebody advised a Malta here. I am not very into Maltese law actually. My idea would be UAE residency and bank in Georgia.

Maybe this will help Mark:

Czy istnieją jeszcze prawdziwe raje podatkowe? - Prawo do prywatności
 
#23
@PolishCourier

Of course you are right, people posting in this thread are not even aware of such as simple term as "tax residency".
Very good point on the creation of tax liability, but as long as my coins were not purchased or sold... i think the tax liability is created the moment you sell. Will ask lawyers.

Switching residency is most important thing.

However the real problem is not even forming company or switching residency... but getting banking agreement

Actually i think that bypassing "forming offshore company" part and going for private banking account + selling as private person would be easier than trying to find banking account for offshore company.

You can find some offshore bank (SWIFT only), but most serious crypto-exchanges are located in europe and send only SEPA transfers.
 
#24
Mark21 said:
@PolishCourier

Of course you are right, people posting in this thread are not even aware of such as simple term as "tax residency".
Very good point on the creation of tax liability, but as long as my coins were not purchased or sold... i think the tax liability is created the moment you sell. Will ask lawyers.
Click to expand...

Ask them but I'll bet they won't give you straightforward answer. Being lawyer myself I was asked this question a dozen times by Polish residents and my answer never satisfied my clients. In my opinion trading cryptos and exchanging one crypto into another creates a tax debt. This is classical tax liability arising from the exchange itself. Profit is created not only when you move your assets into cash but also when you trade one asset for different asset. Same thing is with crypto. That is why this is problematic thing here and Imho you have already been outlaw for some time, unless of course you only bought one crypto and waited patiently for its value to grow. Then of course, no trade, no profit. But any trade, exchange etc. creates profit.

That is why they advised you to allocate your profits into offshore. That is good idea, unless you provided your real data to some exchange provider... then, well... it gets complicated but can be somehow resolved. My advice is to buy aged company.

However the real problem is not even forming company or switching residency... but getting banking agreement
Click to expand...

As a natural person you have many more options, considering your citizenship. Not only private banking but also many classical banks will meet you with open hands. Try Georgia, fly to Tiblisi or Kuitasi and go to the nearest bank. Not only they will make it quick but you will discover that they love Polish people

In case you need to bank within SEPA as an individual I think you should try Latvia, Liechtenstein or Luxemburg, maybe Switzerland for private banking. When you become Maltese resident you may also consider Polish banks - like Getin Noble - they offer private banking as well.
 
#25
PolishCourier said:
Ask them but I'll bet they won't give you straightforward answer. Being lawyer myself I was asked this question a dozen times by Polish residents and my answer never satisfied my clients. In my opinion trading cryptos and exchanging one crypto into another creates a tax debt. This is classical tax liability arising from the exchange itself. Profit is created not only when you move your assets into cash but also when you trade one asset for different asset. Same thing is with crypto. That is why this is problematic thing here and Imho you have already been outlaw for some time, unless of course you only bought one crypto and waited patiently for its value to grow. Then of course, no trade, no profit. But any trade, exchange etc. creates profit.

That is why they advised you to allocate your profits into offshore. That is good idea, unless you provided your real data to some exchange provider... then, well... it gets complicated but can be somehow resolved. My advice is to buy aged company.
Click to expand...

As long as we're out of scope of CRS and residency given to exchange is different than real chances for disclousure are low.
But overall in this case -> no trading, or no exchanging crypto for crypto that would create tax liability earlier.


As a natural person you have many more options, considering your citizenship. Not only private banking but also many classical banks will meet you with open hands. Try Georgia, fly to Tiblisi or Kuitasi and go to the nearest bank. Not only they will make it quick but you will discover that they love Polish people
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if creating private banking account in Georgia wouldnt violate "foreign exchange law/prawo dewizowe". As far as i'm aware, you're allowed to create EU bank accounts without permission from the Polish gov.

Thank you for your advice :) I'll try to look in EU and swiss mostly.

As you said you were not aware in malta's law. Esentially you pay 0% tax if you profit from foreign income that is not remitted to malta. So you need to send it somewhere to foreign bank. There are different types of residences available.
 
#26
I've discussed a similar setup with two a Maltese tax accountants. Doesn't fly. Even if your tax residency is in Malta and you generate business income using an abroad company then you need to pay tax in Malta since it is active trading is considered business. Malta has CFC laws which destroy this plan. The Maltese government might not spot this if you fly under the radar but be aware that it is illegal.

Although no accountant could point me at the actual CFC law. The literal answer was "it's an unclear, arbitrary process". Let me know if you got different advice.
 
#27
rockrock said:
I've discussed a similar setup with two a Maltese tax accountants. Doesn't fly. Even if your tax residency is in Malta and you generate business income using an abroad company then you need to pay tax in Malta since it is active trading is considered business. Malta has CFC laws which destroy this plan. The Maltese government might not spot this if you fly under the radar but be aware that it is illegal.

Although no accountant could point me at the actual CFC law. The literal answer was "it's an unclear, arbitrary process". Let me know if you got different advice.
Click to expand...

Malta doesn't have CFC, been told that multiple times. So very interesting post of yours.
Perhaps your accountants were looking for job so you incorporate maltan company? :)

If anyone have more info please provide.
 
#30
PolishCourier said:
Even if it does not have CFC law at place, it will have one. This is getting obligatory in EU. That is why I was thinking about UAE...
Click to expand...

Yes, from what i'm reading it seems that CFC laws are in development.

More here, scroll to "The CFC Rule" - however there are some threesholds if company income

Maltese Government adopts law to implement EU Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive; NID rules approved by EU Code of Conduct Group

Dcp4gdL.png
 
#31
PolishCourier said:
Okay, there were some serious misunderstandings here in this discussion.

First, actually Poland has double tax treaty with US.
Second, it is very unwise for Polish tax resident to cash out cryptos for himself if he wishes to avoid tax.

Solution is relatively simple - one has to change his/her tax residency to a country which will not tax him/her on the crypto income. There is actually no need to create an offshore company to bypass the funds. The only idea I have about this advice is that lawyers are afraid that previous crypto trade will be allocated to Mark because under Polish law there can be different interpretation of moment of creation of tax liability towards state. And that is why they are proposing offshore company - to pretend that it was traded not by Mark himself, but via offshore company.

This may also not work for some reasons (e.g. tax avoidance clause in Polish tax code and mainly because Mark was Polish tax resident during that time). So from my perspective it will not give Mark any extra layer of protection. So, we go back to the simple things - we need to switch residency. Why? First of all, because any legitimate bank (let's say Barclay's or other private bank) has to comply with CRS. Under CRS they will report bank account UBO to the country of residency. Because Poland is well known for its irritating tax authorities it is better not to cash out as a Polish resident.

Somebody advised a Malta here. I am not very into Maltese law actually. My idea would be UAE residency and bank in Georgia.

Maybe this will help Mark:

Czy istnieją jeszcze prawdziwe raje podatkowe? - Prawo do prywatności
Click to expand...


That's bulls**t. US only share with Poland if there are any income in USA. I know about Tax residency well. You cashout BTC in US Soil not in Poland Soil. There are plenty OTC exchanges in USA.
 
#34
Mark21 said:
@PolishCourier

Of course you are right, people posting in this thread are not even aware of such as simple term as "tax residency".
Very good point on the creation of tax liability, but as long as my coins were not purchased or sold... i think the tax liability is created the moment you sell. Will ask lawyers.

Switching residency is most important thing.

However the real problem is not even forming company or switching residency... but getting banking agreement

Actually i think that bypassing "forming offshore company" part and going for private banking account + selling as private person would be easier than trying to find banking account for offshore company.

You can find some offshore bank (SWIFT only), but most serious crypto-exchanges are located in europe and send only SEPA transfers.
Click to expand...


I know about tax residency and I always talk about bypassing this without switching your residency. You wanted to do tax avoidance in many ways, So this is also an option for you as it does same thing.

:)


By the way, You can get legal opinion from KPMG or PwC and show to Poland if needed.
 
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