Perpetual Traveller (And Being A Tax Resident Nowhere - UK Citizen)

[Revoltec]

In many countries, having an address there would make you a tax resident in the new country as they do not accept time for travel as "time not spent in the country". Your permanent residence would be in the country you have an address in, regardless if you travel or not. So you need to watch out for that

 

[peter taradash]

P.T. Theory is still alive & working well, say I, Peter Taradash. The original PT idea was to be a perpetual tourist with 3 months per year invisible & untaxed in 4 different places. A PT can also stay as long as they want --wherever their passport(s) give them the right to stay longer. Thus someone with an EU passport can stay in Europe low profile for as long as they wish to. The only trick is to have invisible (to the govt)"black" income or capital to live on. The EU/Schengen area is like one country now. Just like the USA. You can stay in either place invisible & forever if your I.D. documents, appearance & activities "fit in." If you never go back to your original country (like Spain or even the USA) where you were a taxpayer, it is unlikely they will send anybody to look for you. Good equipment for a PT are the 6 flags-(1) at least 2 passports, (2) a legal residence somewhere where you don't have to pay taxes (not necessarily a tax haven) (3) A business base (4) A vacation/fun place to spend your money (5) A PTO -Portbale Trade /Occupation --viz., a source of revenue like an online consulting business (6) A place to keep your assets like a vault in Singapore for your collections, or Bitcoin or ???

 

[peter taradash]

In many countries, having an address there would make you a tax resident in the new country as they do not accept time for travel as "time not spent in the country". Your permanent residence would be in the country you have an address in, regardless if you travel or not. So you need to watch out for that...[Not really if you are a PT!]

Another PT Rule is that no one at all should know where you sleep. No name on the doorbell, never register anywhere, don't give out your physical address, don't get mail except at maildrop or c/o friend, if you have a lease, use any name but your own, So a PT never has a fixed address unless it is in a place that doesn't tax foreign People-- Traveling; who are Passing Through as Presumed Tourists.... Which is most places. Peter Taradash.

 

[Revoltec]

Another PT Rule is that no one at all should know where you sleep. No name on the doorbell, never register anywhere, don't give out your physical address, don't get mail except at maildrop or c/o friend, if you have a lease, use any name but your own, So a PT never has a fixed address unless it is in a place that doesn't tax foreign People-- Traveling; who are Passing Through as Presumed Tourists.... Which is most places. Peter Taradash.

The problem is that most tax agencies do wanna see an official new permanent address in the new country in order to not tax you anymore.

 

[Cloudbanck]

The problem is that most tax agencies do wanna see an official new permanent address in the new country in order to not tax you anymore.

That's easy to sort out in Sub-Saharan Africa. Lots of countries where streets have no names or numbers. The address is just the general area. One can register with such an address to the high tax country authorities , and add some random number if that makes them happier.

 

[peter taradash]

The problem is that most tax agencies do wanna see an official new permanent address in the new country in order to not tax you anymore.

If a tax agency doesn't know you exist or where you are, they won't/can't ask you for anything. Obviously, you have to remove all your assets from the old country --like the rich Russians did and the Indians & Chinese are doing now -- because anything you leave behind in your home county you can kiss good-by. Peter T.

 

[Cloudbanck]

If a tax agency doesn't know you exist, they won't ask you for anything. Peter T.

The tax agency of the country you were born in usually know you exist though.

But if you just give them an address in Africa or elsewhere and don't live in the particular country you were born in, it's fine.

Or maybe there are some smart ways of making them forget you.

 

[peter taradash]

Better to just fade away than to give it addresses, false or otherwise. When bills & letters are returned "moved- not here" you are pretty much forgotten unless you owe a huge amount on a judgment, and even then, if your whereabouts are unknown, that's it for the govt or any creditor.

 

[Don]

Better to just fade away than to give it addresses, false or otherwise. When bills & letters are returned "moved- not here" you are pretty much forgotten unless you owe a huge amount on a judgment, and even then, if your whereabouts are unknown, that's it for the govt or any creditor.

This is often against the law, and it might be the only way to escape the tax net in some cases. In many cases, you might need to consider exit taxes.
That being said, especially for EU citizens, it might be worthwhile to use an intermediary jurisdiction.

E.g., if you decide to exit an EU country's tax net, you can move first to another EU country and immediately get a tax residency certificate showing that you are considered a tax resident of another country in that period, then notify them that you have changed plans and are heading to South-Sudan.

Sometimes it could work even if you make a move, e.g., in December, obtain a residence permit and tax residence certificate, and before the end of the year, move on to the next country.

Also, there are tons of ways you can minimize or even avoid exit tax this way. It may be possible to move first to a destination country within the EU, form there a proper structure as a holding and then move to a third country. Some EU countries allow formal residency in their country without looking too much at the physical presence. This allows to win time and to benefit from a possible decrease in the value of the hidden reserves between the moves.

In some countries like Germany, there are exemptions for exit tax if EU/EEA citizens move within the EU/EEA and plan to return within 7 years. Authorities shall be notified, but they shall not ask for securities. On application, the return period can be extended for an additional five years. This rule allows one to leave the country temporarily, return and then exit permanently with little or no exit tax if the value of the hidden reserves in the participation has decreased during the first period of absence.

Also, in case of a request for administrative cooperation, the destination states may have limited interest in investing resources to collect taxes for the departure state.

 

[intlman]

Nothing I believe, you are the only western passport that can pull this for what ive seen (legally)

New Zealand has something very similar. Very easy to loose your tax residency there. It's mostly a statutory days test. There's also no need to show that you are tax resident elsewhere (they don't even ask for it on the official form you need to file when "leaving").

Source: I exited the NZ tax system over 17 years ago.

However our Australian cousins don't have it quite so easy.

 

[Revoltec]

The tax agency of the country you were born in usually know you exist though.

But if you just give them an address in Africa or elsewhere and don't live in the particular country you were born in, it's fine.

Or maybe there are some smart ways of making them forget you.

...They also know where you are traveling, and this is a big problem. For instance, in Sweden the court ruled over the Swedish Tax Agency's requirement for the new country to also be your new tax resident. However, the Tax Agency does not care and still asks for this until you take them to court. And if you cannot provide satisfying documents to make them happy in an easy way, why are you doing it at all? There are a lot of problems with the setup by @peter taradash that for many does not work. However, I somehow see how it could possible work for a UK citizen.

If a tax agency doesn't know you exist or where you are, they won't/can't ask you for anything. Obviously, you have to remove all your assets from the old country --like the rich Russians did and the Indians & Chinese are doing now -- because anything you leave behind in your home county you can kiss good-by. Peter T.

With CRS and all the communication that is going on, eventually they will find your assets. And this is just gonna get easier and easier with AI and the OECD pushing their agenda. And if you are not accessible it is legally your problem, not theirs. Everything is good until the legal process starts.

E.g., if you decide to exit an EU country's tax net, you can move first to another EU country and immediately get a tax residency certificate showing that you are considered a tax resident of another country in that period, then notify them that you have changed plans and are heading to South-Sudan.

Tax Agencies do not look at what your intention was initially but what you ended up doing in the end. Therefore, this can also be problematic in some countries.

Sometimes it could work even if you make a move, e.g., in December, obtain a residence permit and tax residence certificate, and before the end of the year, move on to the next country.

False. In a majority of cases.

Also, there are tons of ways you can minimize or even avoid exit tax this way. It may be possible to move first to a destination country within the EU, form there a proper structure as a holding and then move to a third country. Some EU countries allow formal residency in their country without looking too much at the physical presence. This allows to win time and to benefit from a possible decrease in the value of the hidden reserves between the moves.

This is true. But the question is if you wanna leave your assets in EU, easily accessible by your 'first' country. I would not.

 

[Don]

...They also know where you are traveling, and this is a big problem. For instance, in Sweden the court ruled over the Swedish Tax Agency's requirement for the new country to also be your new tax resident. However, the Tax Agency does not care and still asks for this until you take them to court. And if you cannot provide satisfying documents to make them happy in an easy way, why are you doing it at all? There are a lot of problems with the setup by @peter taradash that for many does not work. However, I somehow see how it could possible work for a UK citizen.

With CRS and all the communication that is going on, eventually they will find your assets. And this is just gonna get easier and easier with AI and the OECD pushing their agenda. And if you are not accessible it is legally your problem, not theirs. Everything is good until the legal process starts.

Tax Agencies do not look at what your intention was initially but what you ended up doing in the end. Therefore, this can also be problematic in some countries.

False. In a majority of cases.

This is true. But the question is if you wanna leave your assets in EU, easily accessible by your 'first' country. I would not.

Cant really generalize here, as there are specific cases, exception of the rule, and loopholes are still there, even for CRS.
I agree that what peter taradash was saying has many potential pitfalls, yet I know people who have done how he described with no issues for 10+ years not even with 4 but 3 countries.

 

[Revoltec]

Cant really generalize here, as there are specific cases, exception of the rule, and loopholes are still there, even for CRS.
I agree that what peter taradash was saying has many potential pitfalls, yet I know people who have done how he described with no issues for 10+ years not even with 4 but 3 countries.

That is maybe a proof we are too paranoid. Seems like most people get screwed by contacting the tax agency and showing their structure and then getting penalized for stuff they cannot easily prove or when lawsuit is not worth it. Maybe it is the best way to risk sometimes

 

[Cloudbanck]

...They also know where you are traveling, and this is a big problem.

Ok, this is interesting in itself. What exactly do they know about where you are travelling? Take Sweden as an example again. I guess they know if you fly into Arlanda from abroad, or fly out of Sweden. But what about if you drive over the bridge to Denmark, or over the border to Norway? Or between third countries - what if you fly from Paraguay to Brazil, or drive from Germany to the Netherlands (ie within Schengen), or fly from Copenhagen to London? Within Schengen seems difficult to check, the rest I dont know.

For instance, in Sweden the court ruled over the Swedish Tax Agency's requirement for the new country to also be your new tax resident.

Hm, from what I've seen they just check whether you are tax resident or not, and if you are not (i.e. "begränsat skattskyldig") they confirm it after receiving your first tax return in the year after moving out. And that's it, done, no further problems. Unless they suspect you are still a tax resident in Sweden, and go after you, and then I guess they can come up with all kind of stuff. But if you are not high profile and have no ties, and dont spend much time in Sweden, this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[peter taradash]

A few more thoughts: One person wrote that after requests for asylum were denied, some illegal immigrants in France were NOT deported. My comment: If one has disappeared into the crowd -- or crossed a border and works black as a "TNT" that person is invisible to "the authorities" and obviously is a low-priority fugitive who won't be deported. Why? Because nobody is seriously looking for him.
The problem is if he gets involved in a brawl or is caught speeding &/or is arrested for picketing, remember this! He is on the cop's computer . And at any time he is arrested for anything, the odds are he would be deported.
Another observation- Any chap who willingly gives his bank accounts to be used by scammers & actually gets paid & keeps the money; That person is in a much worse position (in court) than someone whose account is stolen or compromised without his knowledge. With multiple victims thirsting for revenge and a substantial prison sentence more than likely,IMO the guy involved is better off seeking greener pastures abroad & letting the situation cool off... Just like in the movie GODFATHER where the American protagonist went to Sicily.
A Chinese person can blend in in dozens of countries --with the Chinese diaspora. By the way, I (Peter Taradash) no longer have any websites. Am not seeking new biz, new clients, or selling anything at all. Some people are using my good name to sell their products or services or even copies of my old stuff.. They are not me. I am retired in my 80's. For those clever enough to find me, I may offer them some friendly personal advice that I dare. not put into print in any public forum like this. I think Offshore Corp Talk is an interesting forum. You can get plenty of good ideas & conflicting views to consider -- but like everything on the net, *consider the source* & be very careful about relying exclusively on (especially!) free advice, from inexperienced amateurs there or anywhere.

 

[jafo]

...They also know where you are traveling, and this is a big problem. For instance, in Sweden the court ruled over the Swedish Tax Agency's requirement for the new country to also be your new tax resident. However, the Tax Agency does not care and still asks for this until you take them to court. And if you cannot provide satisfying documents to make them happy in an easy way, why are you doing it at all? There are a lot of problems with the setup by @peter taradash that for many does not work

In many Latin American countries, foreigners can be "detained" in the country for an indefinite period of time. Some sort of community service in lieu of criminal charges. These can last years. What's the Swedish tax office going to do then?

https://thephuketexpress.com/2023/0...ly-being-involved-in-producing-illegal-drugs/

 

[Revoltec]

Ok, this is interesting in itself. What exactly do they know about where you are travelling? Take Sweden as an example again. I guess they know if you fly into Arlanda from abroad, or fly out of Sweden. But what about if you drive over the bridge to Denmark, or over the border to Norway? Or between third countries - what if you fly from Paraguay to Brazil, or drive from Germany to the Netherlands (ie within Schengen), or fly from Copenhagen to London? Within Schengen seems difficult to check, the rest I dont know.

Yes, this depends on the country. But they can get hold of flight tickets, if they want to. Many countries in the EU also have some register of where foreigners are staying (the hotel is required to register you, sometimes even your airbnb host). If you go by car to Denmark you either pay the bridge or the ferry. Also Sweden got internal borders on that route since the migrant crisis. I do not say they will look at this initially but you are leaving traces that can be found easily if you go to court with them.

Hm, from what I've seen they just check whether you are tax resident or not, and if you are not (i.e. "begränsat skattskyldig") they confirm it after receiving your first tax return in the year after moving out. And that's it, done, no further problems. Unless they suspect you are still a tax resident in Sweden, and go after you, and then I guess they can come up with all kind of stuff. But if you are not high profile and have no ties, and dont spend much time in Sweden, this shouldn't be an issue.

"Begränsat skattskyldig" is unclear in many situations and subject to "objective review" of the Swedish Tax Agency. I do know they initially ask for the tax residency certificate in the new country, and then they are happy. They also ask other questions regarding your ties to Sweden, among them how long time you have resided in the new country. Sweden is very strict on this, even if you move to different municipalities within the same country you can lose your status as "Begränsad skattskyldig". The minimum requirement is 6 months at one municipality where you are physically present. And you need to live in the new country for at least 12 months in the beginning to be sure they do not complain. Anything in between is still "objectively reviewed" by the tax agency. You can read more about it here (under "Varaktig bosättning på en viss utländsk ort"): Väsentlig anknytning till Sverige | Rättslig vägledning | Skatteverket

 

[jafo]

For those clever enough to find me,

I feel personally attacked

. I am retired in my 80's

This alone would make me want to sit and chit-chat! No questions. No advice is needed, but it would be great to listen to your battle stories. Of course, it depends on the hourly fee, but at +80, you have earned the right to ask for an amount commensurate with your acquired wisdom.

 

[Revoltec]

Hm, from what I've seen they just check whether you are tax resident or not, and if you are not (i.e. "begränsat skattskyldig") they confirm it after receiving your first tax return in the year after moving out. And that's it, done, no further problems. Unless they suspect you are still a tax resident in Sweden, and go after you, and then I guess they can come up with all kind of stuff. But if you are not high profile and have no ties, and dont spend much time in Sweden, this shouldn't be an issue.

Have you had any experience with the process of "begränsat skattskyldig"? I would like to ask you some questions, please contact me if you have that ability

 

[Cloudbanck]

Have you had any experience with the process of "begränsat skattskyldig"? I would like to ask you some questions, please contact me if you have that ability

Not mentor group member yet, but you can post (throwaway if you like) contact details here, and Ill contact you.