Open a holding to hide money

[Sols]

I feel like we've been through this a few times now. Maybe I'm not clear enough in my answers.

Right, so this will be our conversation:
Q: "We found out that you are the secretary of a company based in Hong Kong. What is your position within this company?".

No, the question would be: "We received a report from the authorities in Hong Kong that states that you are a beneficial owner of a corporate bank account with OCBC Wing Hang for a company called XYZ Limited incorporated in Singapore with account number 123 and a balance of one million USD. Why wasn't this part of your latest tax return and how come this company hasn't paid taxes in France? Where did this money come from?"

 

[John89]

I feel like we've been through this a few times now. Maybe I'm not clear enough in my answers.


No, the question would be: "We received a report from the authorities in Hong Kong that states that you are a beneficial owner of a corporate bank account with OCBC Wing Hang for a company called XYZ Limited incorporated in Singapore with account number 123 and a balance of one million USD. Why wasn't this part of your latest tax return and how come this company hasn't paid taxes in France? Where did this money come from?"

Thank you. Never overestimate your correspondents! Obviously I am not very smart!

Corporate bank accounts have to register a beneficial owner? Genuine question, because I never opened a corporation, and a corporate bank account. I thought the beneficial owner would be the corporation, which would be owned by Mr. Wong, not by me (John). Or then Mr. Wong would be the beneficial owner in the eyes of the bank? Why would the bank have my name, since I am nowhere in the structure of the company? The corporation would then wire a salary to me (as a secretary), or wire the profits to a company in Switzerland, which would be owned by someone else, and for which I would also work. The Swiss company would pay me a salary.

I am really very grateful to you to try to educate me! As you can see, unfortunately I am not very smart, so I need to be told in simple words. Thank you again!

 

[Thepopo]

Thank you. Never overestimate your correspondents! Obviously I am not very smart!

Corporate bank accounts have to register a beneficial owner? Genuine question, because I never opened a corporation, and a corporate bank account. I thought the beneficial owner would be the corporation, which would be owned by Mr. Wong, not by me (John). Or then Mr. Wong would be the beneficial owner in the eyes of the bank? Why would the bank have my name, since I am nowhere in the structure of the company? The corporation would then wire a salary to me (as a secretary), or wire the profits to a company in Switzerland, which would be owned by someone else, and for which I would also work. The Swiss company would pay me a salary.

I am really very grateful to you to try to educate me! As you can see, unfortunately I am not very smart, so I need to be told in simple words. Thank you again!

Yes that's what we call due diligence for the KYC procedure. Mr Wong is the nominee owner, and you are the beneficial owner. Beneficial owner because you take benefits of the company. Is mr Wong getting the dividend and the net worth from your company shares? No. Who is then? You. So you are the beneficial owner.
Basically due to anti money laundering laws, banks must now who is behind a structure, which means that they don't care about nominee owner, what is important is who provide the funds, who give orders to the nominee owner, and get the dividends. If you don't give the information of the UBO (your passport, adress, french tax number, etc) and proof that he is the UBO (so paper of the company formation that clearly show he is the UBO), they won't open a bank account for your company. You can still try to lie to them with fake documents etc, but then they are legally allowed to rob you if they find out.
And btw you are in the company structure (and you better be, otherwise mr Wong can easily rob your money since he is officially the owner). When you setp up your company, there is somewhere a paper stating mr Wong is a nominee owner and you are the beneficial owner. We are no more in the 2000's. This is impossible now. If you want to avoid these taxes, you have to create substance, have employees, rent office in Singapore, hire mr Wong as CEO, give him authority for the company choices etc, otherwise that means that the company is managed by you from France.

 

[Thepopo]

Right, so this will be our conversation:
Q: "We found out that you are the secretary of a company based in Hong Kong. What is your position within this company?".
A: "I am a secretary"
Q: "How much do you earn?"
A: "0"
Q: "So why did you open the bank account?"
A: "I was asked to do so by the owner. I have power of attorney"
Q: "Who is the owner"
A: "Mr. Wong Chin Pun"
Q: "Are you an owner as well"
A: "No. I am a secretary"
Q: "I think you are an owner as well"
A: "I don't care what you think. Bye bye"

I don't see how they can prove anything.

I will just give you a good advice, especially regarding the french taxman. Don't enter offshore with this cocky mentality if you are not a multi-millionaire with an extremely good tax advisor behind you.

 

[Dandyline]

You can be the UBO, just make sure to fix a second residency in a 0% tax country which you present to the bank so that the CRS is reported there. Simple as that.

 

[Sols]

Corporate bank accounts have to register a beneficial owner? Genuine question, because I never opened a corporation, and a corporate bank account. I thought the beneficial owner would be the corporation, which would be owned by Mr. Wong, not by me (John). Or then Mr. Wong would be the beneficial owner in the eyes of the bank? Why would the bank have my name, since I am nowhere in the structure of the company? The corporation would then wire a salary to me (as a secretary), or wire the profits to a company in Switzerland, which would be owned by someone else, and for which I would also work. The Swiss company would pay me a salary.

This had been going on since the 1990s but 9/11 really sped things up. As a result, today, all banks are now going to want to know the true ultimate beneficial owner of accounts, including corporate accounts.

If you present Mr. Wong as the UBO, you would today be committing bank fraud. If (when) the bank finds out, they will at best demand to know the true UBO or at worst freeze the account and seize the funds, pending a court order to release them.

There are some very sophisticated, convoluted, and expensive legal solutions that allow you to be anonymous from the bank. Aside from time and money, the biggest drawback is you lose access to your funds. You almost only ever see it with people in positions to store tens of millions there and still keep a large wealth with them personally.

I am really very grateful to you to try to educate me! As you can see, unfortunately I am not very smart, so I need to be told in simple words. Thank you again!

These things aren't obvious and it doesn't help that it gets portrayed poorly (if not downright misconstrued) in most media and by unscrupulous service providers.

 

[John89]

Thank you all for trying to educate me.

You can be the UBO, just make sure to fix a second residency in a 0% tax country which you present to the bank so that the CRS is reported there. Simple as that.

Yes, but the taxes are levied where I spend more than 183 days a year.

 

[Dandyline]

Thank you all for trying to educate me.


Yes, but the taxes are levied where I spend more than 183 days a year.

Yes, but the bank have no idea where you spend the 183 days.

You just say that you are resident of UAE, then they will report there.