Ledger Stax - what do you think ?

[void]

Not entirely sure if you’re referring to my comment, but if you are; you can control the additional signatures from additional devices rather than having a single point of failure in one device.

no hw wallet represents a single point of failure - if it does then it's a wrong setup

 

[abrahamtholos]

Please illustrate a scenario where multiple signatures for a single device is a better solution than multiple devices with a single signature.

What do you mean by "multiple signatures for a single device"? Most multi-signer wallet setups distribute the signatures/key shards across multiple devices.

 

[abrahamtholos]

no hw wallet represents a single point of failure - if it does then it's a wrong setup

A hw wallet is inherently a single point of failure; it is one device. If that device is hacked or accessed - your assets are lost.

Equally - if you have a single seed phrase; if that seed phrase is leaked, your assets are gone.

 

[Freetrade]

After multiple bricked Ledgers years ago I would never give them a single satoshi again.
I prefer the Grid lattice. One seed per card and a nice screen to see exactly what you are signing.

 

[void]

After multiple bricked Ledgers years ago I would never give them a single satoshi again.
I prefer the Grid lattice. One seed per card and a nice screen to see exactly what you are signing.

I've never heard about this company/device. I'm too lazy to search now... what makes it different/better compared to ledger or trezor devices?

it doesn't seem very portable

 

[void]

A hw wallet is inherently a single point of failure; it is one device. If that device is hacked or accessed - your assets are lost.

fault

Equally - if you have a single seed phrase; if that seed phrase is leaked, your assets are gone.

double fault

you're not supposed to use hardware wallet this way - if you worry about your device being lost or broken or about somebody finding your seed backup then something is seriously wrong

 

[abrahamtholos]

fault

double fault

you're not supposed to use hardware wallet this way - if you worry about your device being lost or broken or about somebody finding your seed backup then something is seriously wrong

This is how 90% of people use hardware wallets.

Sure you can have Shamir on a Trezor or have multiple redundancies and distributed partial seeds, but this is far from standard.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

What do you mean by "multiple signatures for a single device"? Most multi-signer wallet setups distribute the signatures/key shards across multiple devices.

Sorry replace device with wallet

 

[abrahamtholos]

Sorry replace device with wallet

Okay got it.

So typically if you have multiple signatures (technically partial signatures not signatures but regardless) for a single wallet this will be a wallet that uses Multi-party Computation (MPC). There is no single key, but rather there are a number of key shards; of which a threshold number of shards have to be used to approve a transaction. The key shards are off-chain and the signing process is also off-chain taking placeat the cryptography layer.

Whereas, if you have multiple wallets controlling a single signature this will be a wallet that uses multisig.

MPC vs Multisig is a divisive topic, but for most use-cases I think MPC is the better solution. A couple benefits you get with MPC that you don't get with multi-sig:

- Blockchain agnostic; since MPC is off-chain, the same cryptography is used across all protocols with the same signing scheme. This means that you have a narrower surface area of attack than relying on the distinctive smart contract implementations of multisig on each chain you want to hold assets on.
- native compatibility with all decentralized applications
- more flexibility in terms of policy creation and access control
- lower transaction fees
- ability to easily refresh keys...

 

[void]

This is how 90% of people use hardware wallets.

you're not supposed to write a PIN on your credit card despite it's convenient... yet many people do it
giving them more cards or PINs to get cash from the ATM doesn't solve the problem

 

[abrahamtholos]

you're not supposed to write a PIN on your credit card despite it's convenient... yet many people do it
giving them more cards or PINs to get cash from the ATM doesn't solve the problem

The better comparison would be whether you should be able to access a bank account and move funds with someones email and password or if you should have to have their email + password + authentication through mobile phone + in-person or over the phone verification for a large transfer... in other words; one layer of authentication vs multiple.

Again - I don't think multi-signer wallets are the right fit for most people; but I do think they're a better fit for managing sizable amounts of assets than using a hw wallet in most circumstances.