IT LLC to offshore

[Marzio]

1) Tax residency in Georgia (foreign-sourced income is exempt from tax)

He can't move

3) Estonian operating entity

He uses an Italian LLC

3. what's about Malta?

I thought about Malta too and even if on the surface CIT is 35% you'll end up paying 5% and that would fall into Italian CFC rules.

 

[Don]

He can't move



He uses an Italian LLC



I thought about Malta too and even if on the surface CIT is 35% you'll end up paying 5% and that would fall into Italian CFC rules.

Some unconventional setups, like using a non-profit abroad, could potentially run under the radar from CFC and CRS.
With an NGO, there are no shares, and members are not disclosed publicly. UBO is potentially not reported anywhere or is someone else who is not real beneficiary.

I can agree that in general, such endeavours can be risky, as was commented before.

 

[Marzio]

Some unconventional setups, like using a non-profit abroad

How would you extract profits from the non-profit?

 

[noob3000]

How would you extract profits from the non-profit?

i thank you simply use it as your personal bank account then haha

jokes aside, that would be interesting. a lot of big players do so.

Some unconventional setups, like using a non-profit abroad, could potentially run under the radar from CFC and CRS.
With an NGO, there are no shares, and members are not disclosed publicly. UBO is potentially not reported anywhere or is someone else who is not real beneficiary.

I can agree that in general, such endeavours can be risky, as was commented before.

so is there a scheme you think about and how many layers are needed, estimated cost etc for it?

 

[Don]

How would you extract profits from the non-profit?

You can take money out as a salary, loan or liquidate it, and liquidation can be structured tax-free as well.

In certain cases, you can even structure it as a charitable entity so even donations to a certain extent are deductible as per EU law.

i thank you simply use it as your personal bank account then haha

jokes aside, that would be interesting. a lot of big players do so.


so is there a scheme you think about and how many layers are needed, estimated cost etc for it?

The arrangement should have some economical substance, and people's refined tastes often differ in this matter.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

The harder you try, the harder they will hit you. Unless you are talking of €10k per year, they can and will go as far as sending a GdF marshal abroad to check your setup, offices and background of the business. They will write a long (hundreds of pages) report with a fancy title and even an illustrated front cover, that will end on the table of the Procuratore della Repubblica. At that point, a 5-6 years long and expensive nightmare will start.

 

[Don]

The harder you try, the harder they will hit you. Unless you are talking of €10k per year, they can and will go as far as sending a GdF marshal abroad to check your setup, offices and background of the business. They will write a long (hundreds of pages) report with a fancy title and even an illustrated front cover, that will end on the table of the Procuratore della Repubblica. At that point, a 5-6 years long and expensive nightmare will start.

Concerning GdF marshals, I've even heard of some regular guys paid by the tax authorities to snitch after such service providers who they believe help to facilitate so-called schemes. So, in that regard, having sufficient economic substance is highly advised.

 

[noob3000]

The harder you try, the harder they will hit you. Unless you are talking of €10k per year, they can and will go as far as sending a GdF marshal abroad to check your setup, offices and background of the business. They will write a long (hundreds of pages) report with a fancy title and even an illustrated front cover, that will end on the table of the Procuratore della Repubblica. At that point, a 5-6 years long and expensive nightmare will start.

sounds like expirienced and well known expiriences... better not to have the same!

Concerning GdF marshals, I've even heard of some regular guys paid by the tax authorities to snitch after such service providers who they believe help to facilitate so-called schemes. So, in that regard, having sufficient economic substance is highly advised.

yes they exist, but i think everywhere in the world....

but what you mean with "sufficient economic substance" ?

and talking in numbers... if we say lower 6 numbers is it worth then?

 

[Marzio]

but what you mean with "sufficient economic substance" ?

It means people working for your holding, a director that you pay 50K a year, office space that you rent, salaried employee.

And even in this case your structure could fall into GAAR meaning that if there are no other reasons beside tax reduction that justify your holding it will be disregarded and you'll end up like @JohnnyDoe said.

 

[noob3000]

It means people working for your holding, a director that you pay 50K a year, office space that you rent, salaried employee.

And even in this case your structure could fall into GAAR meaning that if there are no other reasons beside tax reduction that justify your holding it will be disregarded and you'll end up like @JohnnyDoe said.

that sounds pretty disillusioning.

 

[Marzio]

that sounds pretty disillusioning.

That's reality. It is better to face the truth than to receive a letter from tax office.

In any case why don't you consider moving to Switzerland or San Marino?

Both are pretty compelling options for those who want to stay as close as possible to Italy.

 

[noob3000]

That's reality. It is better to face the truth than to receive a letter from tax office.

In any case why don't you consider moving to Switzerland or San Marino?

Both are pretty compelling options for those who want to stay as close as possible to Italy.

i already have a setup that needs the italian LLC. I just wanted to "upgrade" it for better taxation.

thank you all for advises, i will considering them.

but what i do not understand after all, for what reasons are then the anonymous LLCs and all the other stuff offered here? because in my opinion they could be used in my case. i just have to say "i got frauded" and the money is somewhere on an anonymous LLC... just for example.

 

[Marzio]

what reasons are then the anonymous LLCs and all the other stuff offered here?

Because there will always be the white side and the black side of doing things.

You decide, based on your risk appetite, where you want to be.

i already have a setup that needs the italian LLC.

Then you'll have to pay Italian taxes and look for a tax accountant that will help you reduce those taxes.

 

[FREE CITIZEN]

Curious...Why does your setup NEED a LLC? Why are you unable to move if you desire to reduce your taxes?

 

[Don]

but what i do not understand after all, for what reasons are then the anonymous LLCs and all the other stuff offered here? because in my opinion they could be used in my case. i just have to say "i got frauded" and the money is somewhere on an anonymous LLC... just for example.

In most jurisdictions, you have UBO registers and have to report the UBOs (beneficiaries).
Using such entities without reporting yourself as UBO is often considered illegal money laundering. Achieving anonymity legally is more complicated.

 

[JohnLocke]

The harder you try, the harder they will hit you. Unless you are talking of €10k per year, they can and will go as far as sending a GdF marshal abroad to check your setup, offices and background of the business. They will write a long (hundreds of pages) report with a fancy title and even an illustrated front cover, that will end on the table of the Procuratore della Repubblica. At that point, a 5-6 years long and expensive nightmare will start.

It sounds like this is something you have experienced and would like to avoid, while also warning others against making the same mistake.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

It sounds like this is something you have experienced and would like to avoid, while also warning others against making the same mistake.

Yes, and I’m not the only one who had the privilege to receive this treatment. My case didn’t reach court, but doing everything by the rules is not sufficient to guarantee the same result.

 

[noob3000]

In most jurisdictions, you have UBO registers and have to report the UBOs (beneficiaries).
Using such entities without reporting yourself as UBO is often considered illegal money laundering. Achieving anonymity legally is more complicated.

isn' t it impossible?

 

[Don]

isn' t it impossible?

No, far from it. Just not always very cheap.

 

[JimBeam]

How much money are you looking to invoice out of Italy?