Incorporation for non KYC

[Forester]

How about Switzerland?

Yes, worth checking, IMO. Also Liechtenstein and Iceland, if we talk about Europe.

Perhaps El Salvador could be option, assuming clients will pay in bitcoin.

El Salvador became the first country to make bitcoin legal tender; not only must bitcoin be accepted as a means of payment for taxes and debts, but also businesses are required to accept bitcoin as a medium of exchange.

In LatAm, perhaps Paraguay also worth checking. It's – officially – a crypto-friendly country, too.

Monero will soon be removed from all licensed crypto exchanges. There will be no way to cash out this crypto easily and cost effective.

Are you sure? (But it's OT a little.)

Anonymity is costly.

No doubts, naturally.

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

Are you sure? (But it's OT a little.)

Happening as we speak in EU: How & Why the EU Can Confiscate Your Wealth If You Can’t Explain It.

 

[Forester]

Happening as we speak in EU: How & Why the EU Can Confiscate Your Wealth If You Can’t Explain It.

Yes, of course; if we speak about EU then it is totally clear. I've taken @Marshal 's statement as general...

 

[JackAlabama]

Yes, worth checking, IMO. Also Liechtenstein and Iceland, if we talk about Europe.

In LatAm, perhaps Paraguay also worth checking. It's – officially – a crypto-friendly country, too.$

banks there are not crypto friendly at all. So this needs to be dealt with.

Are you sure? (But it's OT a little.)

No doubts, naturally.

 

[Forester]

banks there are not crypto friendly at all. So this needs to be dealt with.

Yes, I agree; in general, banking there sucks remarkably. The financial flows IMO should be split in such a case, crypto being solved separately...

 

[mraleph]

Hello all,

I currently own a us llc, however a new law for IAAS will soon require providers to ask customers for KYC information. Problem is our niche is exactly the opposite, not requiring any KYC and 90% of our customers pay with crypto.
The current setup is that the crypto is converted to fiat through exchange and then hit our corporate bank account.

I'm now looking at incorporating somewhere else where i can keep the no KYC requirement for my business. However it doesn't seem very clear where that would work.
Does anyone know which country i could incorporate where i could conduct my business without asking any information from my customer ?

Obviously we do not provide any financial solution or the like, only provide services and crypto is only used as a method of payment.

Thank you!

Another entity in differently regulated environment - Vanuatu etc. may receive the payments for defined service and US entity may issue the aggregate invoice for the IaaS to deregulated entity. No WHT in Vanuatu, but it's not the only option.

Where is your infrastructure located? Is it yours or leased or rented? What denomination you print on invoices towards end users and what currency you receive from crypto exchange?

 

[slade991]

It seems singapore allow to do accounting with receipt. And those don't require any customer information.
So it seems that would probably be our best / affordable option at the moment.
Any crypto friendly bank in SG ?

Where is your infrastructure located? Is it yours or leased or rented? What denomination you print on invoices towards end users and what currency you receive from crypto exchange?

We are renting atm. Infrastructure is in NA and Europe. We invoice in euros and receive us dollars ( us LLC entity). But if the law pass, we'll probably have to shut down our US servers offering.

 

[daniels27]

It seems singapore allow to do accounting with receipt. And those don't require any customer information.
So it seems that would probably be our best / affordable option at the moment.

Even Walmart in the US does accounting with receipt. I think you can do this business anywhere in Europe and beyond.

 

[slade991]

Even Walmart in the US does accounting with receipt. I think you can do this business anywhere in Europe and beyond.

Issue is US might pass a law to require IAAS to gather KYC for customer as i linked earlier.

 

[daniels27]

Issue is US might pass a law to require IAAS to gather KYC for customer as i linked earlier.

Yes I know. Then just use any other is the 200 countries. Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Singapore, BVI etc. They can all handle it.

 

[mraleph]

It seems singapore allow to do accounting with receipt. And those don't require any customer information.
So it seems that would probably be our best / affordable option at the moment.
Any crypto friendly bank in SG ?


We are renting atm. Infrastructure is in NA and Europe. We invoice in euros and receive us dollars ( us LLC entity). But if the law pass, we'll probably have to shut down our US servers offering.

No you wont need to shut down the US infrastructure. Conclude the IaaS contract between US entity and a new entity in preferable jurisdiction which will be used for payments.

US entity will provide IaaS to KYCed entity and you'll be compliant.

Defined services offered by new entity as something different than you did with US entity.

 

[slade991]

Thing is that law apply to US server as well not only to US entity. Even for reseller.
So even if technically a KYCed entity is renting the servers, this entity will resell the server as VPS to customers which will need to be KYCed as well. Except if lying and saying the servers are not resold which is a whole different can of worms and pretty easy to prove against.

 

[sebastian]

I want to be fully legit and also the money doesn't stay in crypto it is converted to fiat and go to business bank account.

In that case, make sure you get generated invoices for each customer and money can be followed. You get lot's of troubles otherwise. No kidding with the nazi tax office, they will hunt you like brutal dogs.

 

[daniels27]

No kidding with the nazi tax office, they will hunt you like brutal dogs.

You mean the ones from Ukraine Putin keeps talking about? I would not believe this sh1t. Or you mean the ones from AfD that the German idiots in the government keep telling about? Not much more credible either.

I think the rules are about similar in each country. You need a bank/crypto statement with incoming payments and matching invoices. Also like in all countries, the invoice can be without any personal information (some people tend to call it receipt although most jurisdictions only have one legal term for either document).

 

[Forester]

You mean the ones from Ukraine Putin keeps talking about? I would not believe this sh1t. Or you mean the ones from AfD that the German idiots in the government keep telling about? Not much more credible either.

I think the rules are about similar in each country. You need a bank/crypto statement with incoming payments and matching invoices. Also like in all countries, the invoice can be without any personal information (some people tend to call it receipt although most jurisdictions only have one legal term for either document).

This is going quite off-topic, so please do not go much further on.

Just a small remark: Per my own experience, these rules really differ a lot around the world. Somewhere/sometimes you do not need any invoices at all and somewhere/sometimes you must have a personal information on every invoice, at least above some amount like ~500 USD or so.

 

[mraleph]

Thing is that law apply to US server as well not only to US entity. Even for reseller.
So even if technically a KYCed entity is renting the servers, this entity will resell the server as VPS to customers which will need to be KYCed as well. Except if lying and saying the servers are not resold which is a whole different can of worms and pretty easy to prove against.

I haven't proposed retail model. Read the written again.

KYC as AML/CTF procedure is standard in all service models, including IaaS in almost every jurisdiction in the West.

Part of my portfolio includes IaaS in US, Switzerland, UK, Netherlands, Germany and Singapore where our operating companies have racks, cages and suites as well as antenna rooftop space with our equipment. Those companies lease resources to contractual parties against which we performed due diligence, hence we are compliant towards authorities, including US.

Those parties have access and usage rights of our resources and they can create whatever they want - creating FX virtual instances, switches with virtual IX access and IP transit, computational nodes, Storage-as-a-service, PTP and NTP stratum 1 time-as-a-service etc. - excluding obviously forbidden stuff.

In that case, make sure you get generated invoices for each customer and money can be followed. You get lot's of troubles otherwise. No kidding with the nazi tax office, they will hunt you like brutal dogs.

I want to be fully legit and also the money doesn't stay in crypto it is converted to fiat and go to business bank account.

The business and financial anonimity and privacy doesn't come in the same basket with legitimacy. A lot of things can be anticipated so you should not build a business model against the regulatory ones. You can make an overlay, but I suppose that discussion is for Gold group.

 

[JohnLocke]

I think the rules are about similar in each country. You need a bank/crypto statement with incoming payments and matching invoices. Also like in all countries, the invoice can be without any personal information (some people tend to call it receipt although most jurisdictions only have one legal term for either document).

From personal experience you better have the customers name and details on each invoice. If the tax office is going crazy they will tell you these invoices are not real but fake and you get taxed personally on the total amount of each invoice.

 

[daniels27]

From personal experience you better have the customers name and details on each invoice. If the tax office is going crazy they will tell you these invoices are not real but fake and you get taxed personally on the total amount of each invoice.

Just a small remark: Per my own experience, these rules really differ a lot around the world. Somewhere/sometimes you do not need any invoices at all and somewhere/sometimes you must have a personal information on every invoice, at least above some amount like ~500 USD or so.

I think at least some of the rules pertain to claiming back VAT. But that brings us to another problem. How do you account for VAT if you do not know where the people live?

BTW: See this example for Mullvad VPN from Sweden:
https://www.collegesidekick.com/study-docs/2610691
Seems at least they get off with such a generic invoice. Sounds quite interesting.

But maybe, you can also ask your customers to enter a country and an address. The Google Address completer is a real good tool in this case as it proposes fake addresses without the need to look for them.

 

[JohnLocke]

I think at least some of the rules pertain to claiming back VAT. But that brings us to another problem. How do you account for VAT if you do not know where the people live?

That's why I see it's better to collect full customer details so you won't get troubles with the tax office.

But maybe, you can also ask your customers to enter a country and an address. The Google Address completer is a real good tool in this case as it proposes fake addresses without the need to look for them.

In our case the tax office had sufficient of time to lookup each address and see that most of them were fake, not done by us but by the customers, so it came back like a boomerang.

You really need to make some advance setup if you want to avoid troubles with the tax offices in Europe.

 

[daniels27]

That's why I see it's better to collect full customer details so you won't get troubles with the tax office.

Yes, but his company is the Mullvad VPN for hosting. He won't have any customers if he knows them.

In our case the tax office had sufficient of time to lookup each address and see that most of them were fake, not done by us but by the customers, so it came back like a boomerang.

You really need to make some advance setup if you want to avoid troubles with the tax offices in Europe.

Then, he should go to Switzerland or Liechtenstein, where they only get to see the addresses when they are doing the government audit at your office. But it most be possible. I mean Mullvad is big in Sweden and they are still operating.