How to transform crypto into properties ?

[countryfree]

My only question will be why the UK? I hate this country. Expensive prices, poor weather, terrible food... I don't even like the people there. Come on, there are many more nicer places in the world.

 

[LucyOffshore]

Why don't you just transfer crypto earnings to index funds and gain insane compounding interest over the next decades from the stock market? Real estate is a bad investment and will eat up your wealth in maintenance.

Investing into stocks is not a wise idea. Things have been going good for way too long now a collapse will soon follow. Just take a look trough history and the most recent fall, crypto.

The truth is that you will never lose money on properties. Sure the market can go down for a few years but the prices always come back up and over the original due to the rise in demand as more people move to cities, the fall in supply in big cities (just look at Hong Kong) and also due to inflation of 1-2% a year on average.

That's why buying properties is the ultimate storage of wealth and you can even rent them out to earn extra income on top of that. If you are in the correct market 5-15% return per year is possible.

 

[LucyOffshore]

@Cartiers congrats on your earnings. What I would do in your case is take a nice 6 month vacation to Dubai. Wait until I become a tax resident there and once I do cashout everything (or as much as you like) since UAE have 0% on personal income.

 

[Educate]

Investing into stocks is not a wise idea. Things have been going good for way too long now a collapse will soon follow. Just take a look trough history and the most recent fall, crypto.

The truth is that you will never lose money on properties. Sure the market can go down for a few years but the prices always come back up and over the original due to the rise in demand as more people move to cities, the fall in supply in big cities (just look at Hong Kong) and also due to inflation of 1-2% a year on average.

That's why buying properties is the ultimate storage of wealth and you can even rent them out to earn extra income on top of that. If you are in the correct market 5-15% return per year is possible.

You speak in subjectives and opinions not in fact. Productivity grows over time, dollar becomes less valuable and stock market produces insane compounding growth and dividends over decades. But sure, keep reading those doom and gloom zerohedge articles. What you fail to mention that even after every economical crash in a decade long term outlook is extremely positive. If you are so smart, why don't you short the whole market then? For Average Joe stock investing has always been a good bet. Real estate is just speculation that some fool will pay more for your house. It eats up a lot of money and over time costs less due to amortisation.

The truth is that you will never lose money on properties.

This is a simple lie. There is no rule in this world which says that properties cannot fall in price. And if you are so confident properties are great, why not just buy REIT? After all it is extremely diversified and liquid.

Sure the market can go down for a few years but the prices always come back up and over the original due to the rise in demand as more people move to cities, the fall in supply in big cities (just look at Hong Kong) and also due to inflation of 1-2% a year on average.

You cannot tell this for a fact. This is anecdotes at best. Properties are not "always going up", they don't produce anything. Companies (stocks) produces branches, patents, iPhones, new software, cars, etc...real estate just sits there and you can rent it out at best and if you want to rent it out, then you just buy REIT, because it is more convenient and has more advantages. Real estate is just speculation, it is not investing. Unless you know something the general market does not.

 

[LucyOffshore]

The truth is that the Average Joe loses money investing in the stock market and that's a fact.
But that doesn't mean you cannot make money in the stock market of course, right now I think is not the time though.
I am just talking from experience (2008) and I have sold the majority of by portfolio. You need to watch what banks are doing in US and EU and read new reports and new regulations. They are fighting so hard to prevent another crash I tell you.

Another fact is that a stock can go to $0. With properties I said you cannot lose money. Can the price go down? Yes of course but long-term the price will never go below the price that it costs to build the property, meaning it cannot go to $0.
Except cities maybe like Detroit where did people lose money with properties? Now look at the stock market and tell me how many people lost money there.

Conclusion:
This is not a situation where you are only allowed to choose 1 option. Ideally you will distribute money into both fields. The stock market to hopefully grow your capital and properties as a storage of wealth mainly.

 

[Educate]

The truth is that the Average Joe loses money investing in the stock market and that's a fact.

No, that is not a fact. This is your opinion. Please don't mislabel opinions as facts.
If Average Joe buys S&P500 index and keeps it for 30 year reinvesting dividends and compounding he will much statistically much better off than with any hedge fund.

But that doesn't mean you cannot make money in the stock market of course, right now I think is not the time though.

You think based on what? These are just feelings and that is it. I don't see any quantifiable data.

I am just talking from experience (2008) and I have sold the majority of by portfolio. You need to watch what banks are doing in US and EU and read new reports and new regulations. They are fighting so hard to prevent another crash I tell you.

No, actually you just need to buy an index fund like S&P500 90% and 10% some general bond index fund, rebalance annually and keep them compounding for 30 year sand you will be shocked what compounding can do to portfolio. Market timing doesn't work for 99% I agree, but long term investing in indices does work.

Another fact is that a stock can go to $0.

Explain to me how S&P500 can go to $0. Will be interesting to read. And "Nuclear Holocaust" is not an argument. If that happens there is no point in anything anymore.

With properties I said you cannot lose money. Can the price go down? Yes of course but long-term the price will never go below the price that it costs to build the property

1. This is not guaranteed.
2. Yes, you can lose money. Example, you buy Mansion for 1mil$ at head of market. Decade later neighbourhood is not that good anymore, mansion is older or just general market conditions and it sells for 700'000$. If you sell it after a decade you LOST 300'000$. Pure math.

Now look at the stock market and tell me how many people lost money there.

Ok, I did look. Not many, proof:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/S_and_P_500_chart_1950_to_2016_with_averages.png

You see a pattern? That is since 1950. Why do you think it keeps going up?
Because:
1) General growth of productivity
2) Globalisation
3) General growth of population
4) Devaluation of dollar

I'm not telling you market will be higher next year, after 3 or 5 years. I'm telling you if you are a long term investor with 20+ years outlook horizon then general, low cost index fund and bond index fund is a good route to take.

This is not a situation where you are only allowed to choose 1 option. Ideally you will distribute money into both fields. The stock market to hopefully grow your capital and properties as a storage of wealth mainly.

I don't disagree, but if you don't live at the properties, please tell me why would you ever buy real physical real estate instead of REIT? Can you come up with good arguments?

 

[LucyOffshore]

Read a little about investment properties before you go using mansions as a reason to not invest into properties.

I get it, you have made some money in the stock market, that does not mean everybody does. The majority of investors long-term are on the wrong side of the market, that's all. You just don't hear about it because no one wants to brag about how much they lost. You can look at stats.

 

[Educate]

Read a little about investment properties before you go using mansions as a reason to not invest into properties.

I get it, you have made some money in the stock market, that does not mean everybody does. The majority of investors long-term are on the wrong side of the market, that's all. You just don't hear about it because no one wants to brag about how much they lost. You can look at stats.

Ok, tell me please if you want to invest into real estate so much why don't you just buy a REIT?

you have made some money in the stock market, that does not mean everybody does.

It is statistics. Look at the chart above. Percentage wise, do you think people invested in that market likely made or lost money?
I'm not saying but X stock.
I'm not saying trade.
I'm saying:
BUT A LOW COST INDEX FUND
HOLD FOR 30 YEARS AND REINVEST PROFITS
???
PROFIT

That is literally it. Of course you will lose money by timing the market.

Please answer me why anyone would buy real estate over REIT.

 

[Banker89]

Maybe because by buying property you actually own something physical instead of an obligation against some financial services provider who might be bankrupt tomorrow

 

[KJK]

So one person suggests investing into stocks, second person suggests investing into real estate.
Is any of that really a good idea? It's 2018, prices of everything through the roof, future of Europe/UK/Germany (which I assume the OP considers) is very unclear.

I partially agree with LucyOffshore - when a crisis comes, real estate may be less affected than stocks. But you have to use your brain anyways.

If you buy Tesla stock, a flat in some London highend suburb or in a new skyscraper in Dubai, then good luck! If you buy stock of some acyclical company and residential housing in some growing economy (not in EU but not a total shithole either), then that may be a good idea.

It's nice to point to S&P500 chart for the last 50 years but what does it really say? Could a person in 1980 imagine the dotcom bubble? Could a person in 2000 imagine cryptocurrencies?

Maybe, just maybe, the best think right know would be to invest into something that you directly control or can influence. And if you don't have such an asset, then hold cash and wait. Also investing into yourself - education, trying stuff yourself (instead of just buying stock), travelling - all these things may help you to see more opportunities than those you see know.

 

[Educate]

Maybe because by buying property you actually own something physical instead of an obligation against some financial services provider who might be bankrupt tomorrow

What a biased and naive answer.

What do you mean owning something physical?

It makes no sense to buy a property instead of REIT if you won't be living there.
Property only makes sense if you actually live there or have some insider knowledge the general real estate market does not possess.

Nobody so far has given me a clear argument for how physical real estate is better than diversified REIT index.

Also, if you buy S&P500 index, for example, you physically own percentage of all top 500 companies according to their market share.

If you buy Tesla stock, a flat in some London highend suburb or in a new skyscraper in Dubai, then good luck! If you buy stock of some acyclical company and residential housing in some growing economy (not in EU but not a total shithole either), then that may be a good idea.

Picking stocks is a fools game. I do not suggest picking stocks, I suggest buying the entire market via index fund. HUGE DIFFERENCE!

It's nice to point to S&P500 chart for the last 50 years but what does it really say? Could a person in 1980 imagine the dotcom bubble? Could a person in 2000 imagine cryptocurrencies?

How is that an argument? Dot com bubble went up and collapsed, so it doesn't matter for a person who invested in 1980 and held for 30 years with compounding. He still is in deep profits over long term.

Cryptos are unrelated to stock market.

Maybe, just maybe, the best think right know would be to invest into something that you directly control or can influence.

This works if you know how to manage a business and buy majority market share of company or start your own business. But if you don't have this knowledge, then investing in index fund to have your money compound over years makes more sense.

And if you don't have such an asset, then hold cash and wait.

Wait for what exactly?

Also investing into yourself - education, trying stuff yourself (instead of just buying stock), travelling - all these things may help you to see more opportunities than those you see know.

Education won't cost millions.

Travelling won't cost millions.

Keeping millions in cash just erodes it due to inflation. Investing some of it low cost market index is the best bet to an Average Joe with no industry insider info.

 

[Banker89]

Everyone is free to invest in what they like and I personally thing making money in crypto then diversifying it into real estate is a smart thing to do. Cartiers clearly said he/she wants to buy property in Europe and asked for advice on how to do it. He did not ask for advice on what to invest the money in. That is completely off topic. Not worth arguing about.

 

[W4rhol]

Read a little about investment properties before you go using mansions as a reason to not invest into properties.

I get it, you have made some money in the stock market, that does not mean everybody does. The majority of investors long-term are on the wrong side of the market, that's all. You just don't hear about it because no one wants to brag about how much they lost. You can look at stats.

Hong-Kong is a bad example. They will because Chinese soon and all the big investor move to Singapore or Shanghai.

The price of the investment properties depends a lot on the demographic curve. Buy a flat in Hong-Kong is a bad move (same for Tokyo).

 

[marder]

"Most successful people and investors MAYBE HAD extremely long term outlook." The order is rapidly changing if you didn't notice yet - the western world is going to inevitable collapse, socialism spread in Europe and US is like a plague and there will be bigger problems to deal with than where to invest and how fast growth of your portfolio you should expect... I'd be so happy to be wrong.

I'm afraid you are right at 100%; things are changing fast and not in a good way, property for the moments seems for me the best investment
Invest for 20 years nowadays.... my god

 

[Educate]

I'm afraid you are right at 100%; things are changing fast and not in a good way, property for the moments seems for me the best investment
Invest for 20 years nowadays.... my god

Everyone is posing doom&gloom scenarios now and about how west is doomed. Ironically since the majority of sheeple are thinking west will collapse, it actually will not and become stronger. Notice how everyone keeps saying stock market will crash any minute and its going higher. Only once everyone is convinced everything will be fine, that is when the collapse will happen. Things like these happen when they aren't anticipated. Like war doesn't begin when both sides are preparing for it. War begins when nobody expects it to occur. Look at history if you don't believe me.

Just normies saying how west is about to collapse and stock market will crash any day now makes me more confident that the west is fine and stocks will keep going up.

 

[void]

Ironically since the majority of sheeple are thinking west will collapse

it's not (and never will be) the majority - on the contrary

actually I don't agree with one single sentence from your post - it's not that important and not that anyone should care of course - it's just a bit funny

 

[Educate]

it's not (and never will be) the majority - on the contrary

actually I don't agree with one single sentence from your post - it's not that important and not that anyone should care of course - it's just a bit funny

Yeah, it is. Mainstream sites like ZeroHedge are posting about eventual collapse any time now.

Literally anyone you recommend buying stocks is saying its risky and we are about to collapse.

Majority of low IQ sheeple think stock market will collapse every time now and there will be a world wide financial crisis likes of which we have never seen before.

This is the exact reason why stock market will keep going up no matter what the gold bugs and cryptotards tell you. In real life, the opposite of what the dumb masses think happens. If everyone is expecting war with Russia or China, then it won't happen. Same with crisis.

 

[void]

then when must live in a completely different parts of the world and being in touch with very different kind of people... I can see only more or less happy and optimistic people that rely on the powerful state and society that will take care of them

 

[KJK]

Majority of low IQ sheeple think stock market will collapse every time now and there will be a world wide financial crisis likes of which we have never seen before.
This is the exact reason why stock market will keep going up no matter what the gold bugs and cryptotards tell you.

Majority of people isn't very concerned about any of this. Some people don't have time to think about it at all and often live paycheck to paycheck. Some people are better off and they happily took a mortgage a few years ago, possibly some other loans as the rates were so low. People with disposable income may think buying a house and some dividend stock is a sure-fire idea.

Also think a bit about who you're calling "low IQ sheeple", in every population the normal/Gauss distribution applies. For height, income, intelligence... What makes you think the others are "low IQ sheeple"?

Behind every growth there is some fuel
- for Germany in the pre-war years it was huge investments into war machinery and infrastructure such as highways
- In 1970s it was multiple factors such as wide availability of petroleum and products such as cars
- In 1980s it was a lot of unregulated U.S. lenders (S&L institutions)
- in early 2000s it was a lot of people rushing to the internet without understanding it much (in this aspect it is very similar to crypto, especially ICOs and altcoins)
- in late 2000s it was multiple factors such as banks giving mortgages to everyone, Americans living at the expense of China and thinking they are geniuses
Then the fuel runs out and recession begins.

The problem of the current world is that it is so complex you cannot predict exactly when the peak will be and when everything starts going down. Maybe we peaked 2 weeks ago? Maybe we will peak in 3 months or 3 years?

By the way, you idea of "stock market will keep going up no matter what" is not a new thing. People in the early 1970s used the same logic - "oh, I'll just buy these 50 Blue-chip stocks and I'm set for life". Within a year a crash came and then 10+ years of underperformance.

 

[Educate]

Majority of people isn't very concerned about any of this. Some people don't have time to think about it at all and often live paycheck to paycheck.

Obviously, I was talking about majority of retail investors investing in stock markets.

The problem of the current world is that it is so complex you cannot predict exactly when the peak will be and when everything starts going down. Maybe we peaked 2 weeks ago? Maybe we will peak in 3 months or 3 years?

This is correct.

By the way, you idea of "stock market will keep going up no matter what" is not a new thing. People in the early 1970s used the same logic - "oh, I'll just buy these 50 Blue-chip stocks and I'm set for life". Within a year a crash came and then 10+ years of underperformance.

Compare stock market in 1970s vs stock market now. All that needs to be said. Just hold.