Fighting for Ukraine – a discussion...

[daniels27]

But I have a question. @John Spectre would you also join @void and go fight yourself?

 

[John Spectre]

But I have a question. @John Spectre would you also join @void and go fight yourself?

Does this have anything to do with the topic?

 

[void]

would you also join @void and go fight yourself?

how did you come to such a conclusion? I can hardly think of a situation where I would fight anybody

 

[daniels27]

how did you come to such a conclusion? I can hardly think of a situation where I would fight anybody

I think you recently posted (off-topic and now deleted) that you were supposed to join the army but are hiding in EUSSR instead. Why would you not fight for your mother land?

 

[polonieth]

Does this have anything to do with the topic?

Yes, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you have alluded to the fact you're Ukrainian. So I think it's relevant, especially if you're of fighting age, how you can justify the things you write here while you've sat by and seen 1 million+ die on the battlefield...

 

[John Spectre]

Well yes. If both parties reject the fabulus trumporious peace plan, the war continues and Ukranie needs their men to fight in order to have a better position in talks.

Regarding the topic and the failed negotiations, nothing has changed. The war is going on every day. And the US has been providing inadequate assistance for a long time (since the beginning of 2023). If the US stops providing assistance completely, it will be harder, but this has already happened more than once: they stopped providing assistance completely, did not deliver what they promised, or delivered outright garbage. Ukraine fought in such conditions for 3 years, and will continue to fight until real negotiations, but not blah blah blah from an orange clown.

 

[daniels27]

Yes, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you have alluded to the fact you're Ukrainian. So I think it's relevant, especially if you're of fighting age, how you can justify the things you write here while you've sat by and seen 1 million+ die on the battlefield...

And why should Europeans pay part of their income to arm your country while you are sitting on the couch discussing life on OCT?

 

[uplana]

And why should Europeans pay part of their income to arm your country while you are sitting on the couch discussing life on OCT?

It seems like a rather foolish question, do you really think it's that one user on OCT who's waging the war? Excuse me, but please try to stay on topic. That’s just ridiculous.

 

[John Spectre]

And why should Europeans pay part of their income to arm your country while you are sitting on the couch discussing life on OCT?

I don't remember that I personally asked you or your countries for anything. So don't hang debts on me.

 

[daniels27]

It seems like a rather foolish question, do you really think it's that one user on OCT who's waging the war? Excuse me, but please try to stay on topic. That’s just ridiculous.

Absolutely. I won't make any difference. But let's be honest. It also makes no difference if one guy stops paying taxes for whatever reason. We normally tell them to leave Europe (and by that stop getting publicly funded benefits). Hence the logical question is how Ukrainians justify not fighting for their country.

@uplana @John Spectre @void I respect all opinions. I had some good conversations a few months back with @void and I respect his opinion a lot. And I am open to help him getting a passport.

Just out of personal interest, I was wondering why Ukrainians are not fighting, while partaking often in quite emotional discussions about their country. I am not accusing them of anything and respect their decision fully as much as I respect anybody who decided otherwise.

 

[John Spectre]

Absolutely. I won't make any difference. But let's be honest. It also makes no difference if one guy stops paying taxes for whatever reason. We normally tell them to leave Europe (and by that stop getting publicly funded benefits). Hence the logical question is how Ukrainians justify not fighting for their country.

@uplana @John Spectre @void I respect all opinions. I had some good conversations a few months back with @void and I respect his opinion a lot. Any I am open to help him getting a passport.

Just out of personal interest, I was wondering why Ukrainians are not fighting, while partaking often in quite emotional discussions about their country. I am not accusing them of anything and respect their decision fully as much as I respect anybody who decided otherwise.

You could any time create any topic and ask questions in appropriate manner which will not be offtopic.
However, your questions was rather provocative and blamed, rather than anything going during personal interest with respect.

 

[polonieth]

Just out of personal interest, I was wondering why Ukrainians are not fighting, while partaking often in quite emotional discussions about their country. I am not accusing them of anything and respect their decision fully as much as I respect anybody who decided otherwise.

I think we all know the answer to that. However, unlike you, if they have been on here pushing the conflict and spreading propaganda that aims to extend it or push others towards the front lines, then I have zero respect for their decision to only partake in the information war as part of Ukraine's keyboard battalion.

For non-citizens who have done that, I think, at best, they are misguided/low IQ/brainwashed, at worst, cowards who should have gone to fight. For example, that clown on X "Jayinkiev".

If you're a Ukranian male, of fighting age, who has escaped the country (or paid the right people but are still there), but spread messages online that Russia = bad, Ukraine is winning, defeat the "orcs" etc etc then I am not sure how you are able to sleep at night. Shameful.

 

[manukahoney]

Hence the logical question is how Ukrainians justify not fighting for their country.

The same way any other man justified it in any other war.
- many are working to provide for their families and family always come first
- many are helping directly (donating to the army or humanitarian causes) and indirectly (paying their fair share of taxes)
- many just can't fight due to medical, mental or other issues. Their usefulness on the frontline will be negative as it takes actual time and plenty of resources to train, supply and deliver the new fighter to the front

It's a not all-out war, there is no need to send every able body armoured with sticks and stones, it's a mostly technological conflict nowadays, the winner side will have better intel, better equipment, enough ammo to counter the opposite side etc.

 

[polonieth]

The same way any other man justified it in any other war.
- many are working to provide for their families and family always come first
- many are helping directly (donating to the army or humanitarian causes) and indirectly (paying their fair share of taxes)
- many just can't fight due to medical, mental or other issues. Their usefulness on the frontline will be negative as it takes actual time and plenty of resources to train, supply and deliver the new fighter to the front

It's a not all-out war, there is no need to send every able body armoured with sticks and stones, it's a mostly technological conflict nowadays, the winner side will have better intel, better equipment, enough ammo to counter the opposite side etc.

Again, out of touch with reality:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895752927991792126

 

[manukahoney]

Again, out of touch with reality:

Your point?
Ukraine was, is and will be a corrupted country, there is no denial of it.

 

[polonieth]

Your point?
Ukraine was, is and will be a corrupted country, there is no denial of it.

You just said:

It's a not all-out war, there is no need to send every able body armoured with sticks and stones, it's a mostly technological conflict nowadays, the winner side will have better intel, better equipment, enough ammo to counter the opposite side etc.

Yet I just showed you they are forcibly taking people off the street to go to the front lines to fight in this "mostly technological conflict". How are you so out of touch with what's happening? It's a meat grinder, not a technology war.

 

[John Spectre]

users who openly stated that if the war spreads to their country they will not fight, but will run away, and at the same time they themselves are very active in discussions on these topics, shut mouths and shame other people who avoided a real war. you - hypocrites, first look at yourself, than give advice to others. lol.

 

[daniels27]

Your point?
Ukraine was, is and will be a corrupted country, there is no denial of it.

@John Spectre is that true?

 

[manukahoney]

Yet I just showed you they are forcibly taking people off the street to go to the front lines to fight in this "mostly technological conflict". How are you so out of touch with what's happening? It's a meat grinder, not a technology war.

Because it's very emotional yet mostly anecdotal evidence of existing issues within Ukraine if you speak numbers. Regarding the "meat grinder" - well, compare the casualty rate of this war to WW2 or any recent conflict in Africa or elsewhere. I'm not sugarcoating it, it's bad and tens of thousands of people die every year, but maybe let Ukrainians decide if they are ready to continue fighting, not some fat asses in pretty cabinets.

 

[John Spectre]

@John Spectre if that true?

Sure, like many other countries in the world.
but this in no way relates to the desire or unwillingness of each individual person to fight.