EU: Dystopia or Overreaction? Debating the Future Amidst Rising Concerns

[uplana]

As I see it, many of the oldest members here keep repeating themselves. The mantra goes – "Get out of the EU while you still can" – while others call it the "EUSSR." And then there are those who don’t seem to have any issues living in the EU... for now, at least!

In another thread I read, it was claimed that you’re left with around 10% of your earnings after slaving away from 7 AM to 6 PM every day. This supposedly covers all living expenses, taxes, and whatever other costs you might have. But based on what salary was this conclusion drawn?

Then there are those who say that the EU will confiscate everything you own and heavily tax you. If you don't hand over nearly everything you earn to the tax office, they’ll come for your belongings. Do you really think that's how it is, or will be?

I’m struggling to follow all the arguments I read every day and to believe that this is the current situation or that it will be in the very near future.

Assuming you’re all right, does that mean there are 446 million people wearing tin foil hats, with chips on or in their arms, living like members of a cult and accepting it as a given without any resistance?

What about the AfD in Germany or Jörg Haider in Austria (though he’s dead now)? They do push back, and I’m sure many resistance groups will emerge as the EU puts more pressure on individual citizens.

What’s your opinion?

 

[Houdini]

I don’t think you’ll find EU critics only here on OCT; they’ve existed for as long as the EU itself. I remain fairly neutral in such debates, as I can see both the advantages and disadvantages of the EU.

 

[daniels27]

The confiscation in the EU mainly concerns the middle class. It never has been a problem for the poor and neither the rich. It is the same as with the US. The market is very big and many people have no issues getting rich fast and they are all happy to pay the 40% as they know what opportunities they get in turn. Small countries such as Switzerland just cannot offer that with their domestic market.

What the intelligent upsets is the fact it growing government control in every aspect. The world is more global now than it was in 1950 and this the necessity grew to control the people, initially with good intent (see next paragraph).

What upsets the lower middle class and below is that the globalisation lead to more competition and it is no longer like 1950 where one guy can with a bit at a big company and buy house and food for a while family. Immigration further increases competition, what is good to to a certain extent. But then there are refugees and others that come and they show no respect to the country and just exploit the social system and the little control the government has. But unlike citizens that eventually could get caught and have something to lose, they cannot lose anything and are gone faster than the wind if they catch some fish.

Instead of discriminating refugees in the penal system and in their incentives, the government tries to apply all laws to all. This is wrong. But this ultimately leads to populists getting attention. But populists more often than not have their own agenda and are not for the better.

That's why people are getting more and more frustrated.

What is needed is a system where immigrants pay a deposit for their behaviour. The 10000 they currently pay to the traffickers should be payable at the embassy as deposit that they will get back after years or when they leave. And then, the EU should use waste land in the outskirts to build cities for refugees in need but without any job perspective.

And for the political system, they need a reform which makes it easier for the small people to enter the system. The oligopoly of collaboration big parties no longer serves the initial democratic intent is was based on. They need the voice of SME and intelligent people. But they don't have a chance to come.

 

[manukahoney]

EU is not a homogenous place and the same goes to any country in EU. Big cities in Western and South Europe tend to be more overcrowded and less safe than they used to be, but in smaller towns life is mostly the same and if you are willing to blend in - you will have a nice easy life.
Taxation is a whole different subject and depends on one's assets and sources of income/wealth.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Then there are those who say that the EU will confiscate everything you own and heavily tax you. If you don't hand over nearly everything you earn to the tax office, they’ll come for your belongings. Do you really think that's how it is, or will be?

I experienced it first hand. Many others I know experienced the same. It is not a joke, and while one case would be sufficient, there are many thousands of such cases. No, you won’t find them in the mainstream news, as all the media have become state controlled.

I’m struggling to follow all the arguments I read every day and to believe that this is the current situation or that it will be in the very near future.

Just listen to what chief gyno Ursula and her buddies say.
Read the laws passed or proposed by the EU.
Compare them with the laws passed by Nazi Germany or Stalin USSR.

Assuming you’re all right, does that mean there are 446 million people wearing tin foil hats, with chips on or in their arms, living like members of a cult and accepting it as a given without any resistance?

The chips are not yet in their arms, which is not a priority as everyone has a phone that serves the purpose.
Yes, it is a big dictatorship and most of the people choose not to rebel. Like in all dictatorships of history. With the difference that Hitler actually had a large popular support and ascended to power through free elections, addressing real problems and proposing solutions.

Jörg Haider in Austria (though he’s dead now)?

The circumstances of his death are not clear. He was not aligned. Enough said.

They do push back, and I’m sure many resistance groups will emerge as the EU puts more pressure on individual citizens.

What’s your opinion?

Europeans are too weak and too brainwashed. The EU will be taken over by Muslims. In the meantime, its subjects’ wealth will be drained to the very last drop.

 

[Houdini]

as all the media have become state controlled.

Could it be that the reason is the media doesn't find enough news value in that kind of stuff, and it's more interesting to write about the EU imposing billion-dollar fines on Google & co?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Could it be that the reason is the media doesn't find enough news value in that kind of stuff, and it's more interesting to write about the EU imposing billion-dollar fines on Google & co?

The media report what they are instructed to. When a journo writes something not aligned, he is quickly corrected. You can see that in online publications where “wrong” titles and contents are changed or deleted within minutes of publication.

 

[Houdini]

Yeah, I haven’t been so glued to the news that I’ve constantly followed media updates, so you’re probably right.

But the internet is vast, and if there were interest in those kinds of cases, you’d probably be able to find them somewhere, just like you can find so much other controversial material online.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Yeah, I haven’t been so glued to the news that I’ve constantly followed media updates, so you’re probably right.

But the internet is vast, and if there were interest in those kinds of cases, you’d probably be able to find them somewhere, just like you can find so much other controversial material online.

It’s unlikely that someone would willingly expose themselves and invite additional persecution.
My lawyer proposed to make my case public and organize a press conference, I declined.
If you search judgments you can find plenty of such cases, unfortunately they are not easy to read for the uninitiated.

 

[daniels27]

The problem is not finding it. You can just open tg and you have it all. The problem is that they are exercising more and more control over the media in an attempt to gain power beyond the democratic intention.

 

[daniels27]

It’s unlikely that someone would willingly expose themselves and invite additional persecution.
My lawyer proposed to make my case public and organize a press conference, I declined.
If you search judgments you can find plenty of such cases, unfortunately they are not easy to read for the uninitiated.

Can you share it with us at least?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Can you share it with us at least?

No. But my case was made public on newspapers when it started. How strange, nobody wrote a line when it closed with no convictions and some troubles for the prosecution side.

 

[GF150]

I strongly support what @JohnnyDoe said herein above. The sad reality is that:
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves"
A couple of days ago I posted, in another thread, the text I'm too lazy to write again and will just copy/paste it:

Yes. Bis repetita placent. If EU looks just like a makeshift construction, it's because it's analyzed from its own narrative's point of view. Of course, it's apparently good for nothing when referring to its official goals and reason of existence. In truth, it's a very well designed tool, working for the self-appointed globalist elite and, of course, against peoples and their countries. Like every well-designed trap, its real purpose must remain unnoticed as long as needed and, when it snaps shut, its spring must be faster than any human's reaction. When people eventually notice what EU is for, it'll be too late and the coming tyranny will be nothing like what we saw in the 20th century, except for 1984 (not quite sure, though).

Just remember the covid scam. The first attempt was H1N1 and it was a complete disaster. But "they" learned a lot from that mistake. The covid was a total success. As a nasty French crypto politician had put it: the idiots went themselves to the slaughterhouse. Has anyone heard the word "remdesivir" for the past three years ? Ursula & Co. spent a billion or so on a drug that was useless and dangerous and even bought a lot thereof just a day before officially admitting it was useless and toxic.
Has anyone heard the word "monkeypox" for the past two months ? "They" saw it was too early and the trick wouldn't work this time. But "they" will come back with something much better-thought out. Take my word for that.

@JohnnyDoe said:
No, you won’t find them in the mainstream news, as all the media have become state controlled.

I'll put it another way: The Deep State controls either, the media and the States. In France, a country I know well, all mainstream media are in the hands of 10 billionaires, they all spit the same lies every day and are paid hundreds of millions a year by the State on the excuse of "plurality of information", keeping straight face, of course.

 

[Houdini]

My lawyer proposed to make my case public and organize a press conference, I declined.

Why did you declined ?

A couple of days ago I posted, in another thread, the text I'm too lazy to write again and will just copy/paste it:

you can just link to the post of yours, better doing so.

Has anyone heard the word "monkeypox" for the past two months ? "They" saw it was too early and the trick wouldn't work this time. But "they" will come back with something much better-thought out. Take my word for that.

And you believe that is EU you don't think it is a step higher up?

No. But my case was made public on newspapers when it started. How strange, nobody wrote a line when it closed with no convictions and some troubles for the prosecution side.

What newspapers, the local press ?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Why did you declined ?

Sun Tzu wrote: “When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard; such is the art of waging war.”

What newspapers, the local press ?

National

 

[jorge]

The problem is not finding it. You can just open tg and you have it all. The problem is that they are exercising more and more control over the media in an attempt to gain power beyond the democratic intention.

Yes and No - There is still a lot they want to keep secret or, at the very least, keep out of the media. I know there are several books they would like to see banned or have tried to block through injunctions, but they have still been published.

 

[brianK]

I've read all the comments in this thread, and the more I read, the more confused I get. The EU is supposed to protect the community, but at the same time, it feels like a burden growing on every individual living here. With surveillance, control, high taxes, and unfair legislation targeting the middle class, it seems problematic. The low-income earners don’t really understand what’s going on, and the wealthy have accountants and lawyers to shape their situation to fit their needs.

It feels like there's an attempt to take control away from the individual and turn society into a robot-like state.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

The EU is supposed to protect the community,

Tell me, even with all the good intentions, a bureaucrat in Brussels or Strasbourg could do something good for, say, a Greek island.

 

[kislokan]

EU: Dystopia or Overreaction?​

100% dystopia

 

[GF150]

And you believe that is EU you don't think it is a step higher up?

Of course, there are a few degrees on top of the EU: the USA, to begin with, then the DS, the bankers and the bunch of evil doers that control them. The EU is in the middle, just like during the WW II, each one in their humble place, just doing their job till the general nasty job is done. Here we were talking of EU.
My text in this thread is only partly copy/paste-ed - 6 lines.