Question Crypto collateral loan?

[Alex Braun]

Has anyone had experience with such services?
Is it still an interesting business model to build from scratch today?

 

[W Fish]

https://debifi.com/

 

[aniglo22]

https://debifi.com/

A direct link to the repository , I can only find https://gitlab.com/debifi-public/debifi-app

 

[void]

For me, it creates unnecessary centralization, which contradicts the core principle of crypto for me decentralization.

while generally true in case of borrowing fiat against crypto collateral a trusted (centralized if you will) arbiter is a feature not a bug as the fiat interface is always "centralized"

the ideal solution (simplified) should look like this:
borrower locks collateral to 2of3 multisig (2 parties and 1 arbiter both parties trust - otherwise no deal closed)
lender sends fiat
repayment date and interest are given
1) repaid in time including interest -> arbiter and borrower unlock collateral back to borrower
2) default -> arbiter and lender hand over the collateral to lender

easy as that, no tradfi bulls**t and unwanted complexity like installments, margin calls, topping up collateral, etc.

I must be missing something because it seems there is no such service on the market

 

[W Fish]

while generally true in case of borrowing fiat against crypto collateral a trusted (centralized if you will) arbiter is a feature not a bug as the fiat interface is always "centralized"

the ideal solution (simplified) should look like this:
borrower locks collateral to 2of3 multisig (2 parties and 1 arbiter both parties trust - otherwise no deal closed)
lender sends fiat
repayment date and interest are given
1) repaid in time including interest -> arbiter and borrower unlock collateral back to borrower
2) default -> arbiter and lender hand over the collateral to lender

easy as that, no tradfi bulls**t and unwanted complexity like installments, margin calls, topping up collateral, etc.

I must be missing something because it seems there is no such service on the market

I think debifi is exactly this, except 3/4 multisig.
these are the same people who were running hodl. hodl is 2/3 multisig, exactly as you describe.
for some reason (it might be in the second video i posted) they decided to have 3/4 in a more serious product.
or what difference you see from your ideal in D?

cheers,

 

[W Fish]

A direct link to the repository , I can only find https://gitlab.com/debifi-public/debifi-app

That i do not know, sorry.
Max said somewhere that the code is (or will be) public, thats where my knowlecge ends.

cheers,

 

[void]

I think debifi is exactly this, except 3/4 multisig.
these are the same people who were running hodl. hodl is 2/3 multisig, exactly as you describe.
for some reason (it might be in the second video i posted) they decided to have 3/4 in a more serious product.
or what difference you see from your ideal in D?

cheers,

debifi has margin calls involved which is a killer bug for me (yes, I'm complicated)

 

[W Fish]

debifi has margin calls involved which is a killer bug for me (yes, I'm complicated)

would you like to lend without?

 

[W Fish]

Actually that is a bad feature there for me too and i asked a lot of questions about how exactly they mark collateral to market. But I think it is as good as it gets...

 

[void]

would you like to lend without?

sure, initial LTV and/or interest cover undercollateralization - it simply makes the loan more expensive or more demanding when it comes to LTV - no magic

 

[W Fish]

sure, initial LTV and/or interest cover undercollateralization - it simply makes the loan more expensive or more demanding when it comes to LTV - no magic

margin calls become less an issue when volatility decreases - it is all the time.
so LTV can go up too.
It is a free market afterall - anybody can go and lend without margin call and high LTV. .... and have a blast...
they just provide the tech

cheers,

 

[void]

margin calls become less an issue when volatility decreases - it is all the time.
so LTV can go up too.
It is a free market afterall - anybody can go and lend without margin call and high LTV. .... and have a blast...
they just provide the tech

cheers,

I don't agree on that...
it has so many unwanted practical consequences and dramatically increases complexity - and all for literally no good reason
it doesn't mean it cannot be an optional feature of course if both parties prefer...

 

[W Fish]

I don't agree on that...
it has so many unwanted practical consequences and dramatically increases complexity - and all for literally no good reason
it doesn't mean it cannot be an optional feature of course if both parties prefer...

Have to agree on that. But it is a lenders market still...

Before we seel lenders allowing undercollatetalization, i guess we will see interest decreasing to 1 digit.

The institutional lender is playing by different rules and has a different mindset ..

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Arbiters are bad. Very bad. It’s much better to take the risk of wrapping, or of a cex as a last resort.